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Archive 2020 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Jman13
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

psyclism wrote:
2. You can use the LCD in overhead situations, you just turn the camera over.

....

Can a hammer be used to drive in a screw? Yes, but it won't do it way the right tool would, so don't bitch because the hammer designer didn't optimize it for whacking in screws.

Holy cow, the irony. You're justifying these decisions by saying overhead shots are easy to do if you just invert the camera and then talk about how you wouldn't use the right tool for the job because a terrible decision on a FLAGSHIP CAMERA makes it hard to use on a tripod? Are you kidding me?

Mar 30, 2020 at 03:16 PM

psyclism
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

"Hate it to the core of your soul." Those are your words not mine.

You must not have read my post on the previous page where I answered the OP's question and explained the issues that many photographers have with the XPro3. I don't "hate to the core of my soul," but I shared my specific critique of the camera in that post. It is only one page back.You should be able to read it in a minute or two.

And, if I may, before you go reading it to find out what you can argue with, first try to understand my...Show more →

You're right -- your dislike for this camera doesn't appear to be as deep seated as a majority of commenters I've seen on various forums. I've read sooo many comments from others that hate this camera with such passion, and feel such visceral anger towards the X-Pro3, that they would happily round up every copy ever created, throw them into a fire, and burn them in effigy. Ala a modern day book burning.

Yes, there are a number of legitimate reasons why this camera won't/can't work for a particular photographer. I discussed a few in my first response, and agree that there are potentially quite a few more. But what is it about this camera that makes so many people on the interwebs so passionately disgusted and appalled that they're unable to admit that it might actually work, and potentially be ideal, for others? That's what I'd like to understand. I hate cooked spinach, bell peppers, liver, onions, and cooked carrots. Do I think all of those foods should be banned from existence and that anyone who likes them is delusional and misguided? That's basically what all the animus towards this camera boils down to - "I don't like it because it doesn't work for me, therefore it ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY CAN'T WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE, and if anyone tells me otherwise, then they're either 1. a hipster/poseur 2. Fuji shills 3. not a real photographer or 4. stupid"

Mar 30, 2020 at 03:41 PM

Jman13
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Psyclism - you're posing a straw man argument.

No one in this thread has said that people who like the X-Pro 3 are hipsters/posers, shills, not real photographers or stupid.

This is a thread where the OP requested reasons not to get an X-Pro 3. There aren't that many, honestly...it's overally a very good camera...but the rear screen is a dealbreaker for many reasons because of the limitations it poses. If those limitations are fine for you, then it's a great option. If they aren't, then for many (myself included), it's an absolute dealbreaker. I do think it was a poor decision by Fujifilm, but that's my opinion. It objectively reduces functionality over most any other rear screen design. That is a fact...whether or not you like / dislike or don't care about that reduced functionality is a personal matter.

Mar 30, 2020 at 04:01 PM

psyclism
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

I haven't spent much time reading comments about the X-Pro3 on the FM forums. I have, however, read quite a few of them on DPReview and the various dedicated Fuji forums. A fair number of threads have devolved into virtual shouting matches because this camera invokes such strong opinions from photographers. Some (evidently a very small minority) love the camera, while a vocal majority despise it. Some threads get so heated that moderators have to actually come in and lock threads due to the personal attacks and outright nastiness of some commenters.

It's almost like a Ford vs Chevy, gun rights vs gun control level of animosity between X-Pro3 lovers and haters. I can't say I've ever seen anything like it in the camera world.

Mar 30, 2020 at 04:11 PM

TheEmrys
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

You will learn very quickly that this is not Dpreview. Nor do folks here conduct themselves (for the most part) as the ninnies (not all folks there, but there are quite a few) over at Dpr.

The people here who don't like the Xpro3 generally do so for some very good reasons. And many are truly excellent photographers (Dan, Jordan) with years of experience behind them.

I don't want to rehash what was discussed in the Xpro3 thread, but narrowing the appeal of a product is rarely a good move. And while photography is a small part of Fuji's business, that doesn't make it invulnerable. Missteps in this market environment have exaggerated consequences. I really do not want to see what happened to Minolta happen to Fuji.

Mar 30, 2020 at 04:27 PM

TR3B
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Anybody have a cat or dog picture to contribute here to lighten the mood?

Mar 30, 2020 at 10:48 PM

goodbokeh
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

When Men were Men and Cameras were Cameras.

When Men were Men and Cameras were Cameras

Mar 31, 2020 at 01:37 AM

Desmolicious
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Of the (too) many cameras I have, I like how my Olympus PenF has the rear lcd display that can be completely flipped around so the screen is hidden, only showing the leatherette back. Gives it that film camera retro look which goes well with the style.
I think that perhaps Fuji should have done that with the XP3, instead of what they did BUT I can understand them doing it as they went for the 'fake' film box look.
I like it, but honestly am ambivalent towards it and care more about how the rest of the camera works. It obviously was an intentional move to widen the differentiations between the XP and the XT series. While before a potential customer may feel, shall we say, confused as to which one to pick, Fuji made the differences more clear.
Whether one likes that or not will shape the purchase.

Mar 31, 2020 at 02:20 PM

psyclism
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

So imagine that Fuji had made the X-Pro3 with the articulating screen of the X-T4. While this screen would have allowed the LCD to be hidden OR displayed full time, it would have made the primary function of the LCD, as Fuji intended, a huge compromise -- the waist level shooting experience would have sucked. That big goofy looking bat wing hanging off the side of the camera, extremely off-axis from the intended target, would be more than conspicuous to anyone looking your direction, plus it would have also been an ergonomic disaster. Want to hold the camera with both hands so you can adjust settings while waist shooting? Nope, can't do that because the bat wing is blocking easy access for your left hand. They also would have been forced to either widen the camera to account for the hinge mechanism, or reduce the size of the LCD significantly.

Could they have put the hinge on the bottom of the camera? Sure, but again, it would require either a height increase to the camera OR a smaller screen (or likely both), and even then it would in all likelihood impede adjustment to the LCD when the camera was attached to a tripod.

Fuji likely assumed the LCD would be used for 4-5 things for the intended genre of this camera. Waist level shooting, menu diving. stowed while using OVF/EVF shooting, open and flipped down for arm length shooting (not ideal again due to goofy bat wing screen), and potentially camera upside-down overhead shooting. While the version they put on the X-Pro3 is far from ideal, it is arguably the most distilled and simplified version available that fits the intended function of the camera. An articulating mechanism that simply pulls out perpendicular to the camera body (a-la X100V) and then flips 180 degrees on the dual arm hinge would be ideal, but I can only imagine how fragile that design would be. This was a compromise solution using current tech to meet a defined goal.

Also -- people are bitching about the screen on the X-T4. It's dumb, useless, good for vlogging and that's it, etc. So basically, Fuji is screwed no matter what they do.

Mar 31, 2020 at 02:59 PM

TheEmrys
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Not really. Ever use a bottom-hinged swivel screen? It is pretty great. Works fabulous for landscape. The LCD doesn't have to sacrifice size at all. Nor does it make the body larger. It just works.

Mar 31, 2020 at 03:32 PM

psyclism
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

TheEmrys wrote:
Not really. Ever use a bottom-hinged swivel screen? It is pretty great. Works fabulous for landscape. The LCD doesn't have to sacrifice size at all. Nor does it make the body larger. It just works.

What's a camera with the bottom hinged swivel screen? I can't find a single example of one. All are left hinged or top/bottom articulating. If it was such a wonderful design, I'd think it would be ubiquitous and not an outlier.

Mar 31, 2020 at 03:46 PM

AmbientMike
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

infosecgeek wrote:
I was thinking about upgrading from to an x100v my 8yo x100 but browsing BH used they have an excellent XP3 for $1400. I had an XPRO2 that I loved but sold it when I went all Sony and kind of miss it. I had all the large 1.4 primes so when it came to grabbing a camera I would grab the Sony as it balanced better but always loved shooting with it.

Don't get it! You already have a camera you don't need another!!!

There.

I tried.

Mar 31, 2020 at 04:02 PM

TheEmrys
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

psyclism wrote:
What's a camera with the bottom hinged swivel screen? I can't find a single example of one. All are left hinged or top/bottom articulating. If it was such a wonderful design, I'd think it would be ubiquitous and not an outlier.

Pretty sure quite a few Sony DSLT's had them. I know that my a65 did. And that design was a bit bulkier as it was attached to mirrored camera. My a99 had the solution that is more complex than I envision. But this isn't exactly new stuff we are looking at. This is basic mechanical engineering.

SLRLounge-M1160124-Sony-A99-Tilt-Screen by the3mrys, on Flickr

Mar 31, 2020 at 05:17 PM

infosecgeek
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

gdanmitchell wrote:
If the idea is to have a very basic, small, no frills camera with a single focal length lens... then the x100v seems like the better bet. Did you love the old x100? Or did it sort of fall by the wayside? If the former... x100v. If the latter... you probably still won’t be happy with that type of camera.

If you want the xPro-style body I would get the XPro2. There is virtually no advantage to the 3, and the reaction to the oddball rear screen design has been less than universally positive.

Note that if you like the large aperture...Show more →

I still love my old x100 and loved the xpro2 when I had it but would always grab one of my Sony bodies instead of it because with larger lenses it didn't balance well. I still grab my x100 when I'm heading out so I know I'd be happy with the x100v..

also: I skipped the xpro3 and ordered the 100v. It will be here tomorrow

Mar 31, 2020 at 10:31 PM

infosecgeek
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

HAHAHAHA....

Mar 31, 2020 at 10:32 PM

infosecgeek
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Wow... Didn't realize how blasted the camera was till I jumped in this thread and headed over to DPReview.. I personally barely used the LCD on my XPRO2 or the X100 so having the little screen thing or no screen at all doesn't bother me. I ended up getting an X100v because while I love the X lens system I have a ton of Sony lenses and use Sony for about 80% of the things I shoot. Fuji has always been for me grab a camera and go out with the family or fun stuff... I love the OVF/EVF..

I do have some legacy lenses and X adapter... So I will be on the lookout for a used XP2 (just will have to remember not to buy any of the large lenses)

Mar 31, 2020 at 10:38 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

infosecgeek wrote:
...just will have to remember not to buy any of the large lenses)

Here's my take on the lens size issue.

1. If you are using an XPro body as a rangefinder-style surrogate for the old-school rangefinder cameras and largely using the OVF, then smaller lenses are generally excellent choices. Fujifilm makes a bunch of them that are fine performers. (This is the way I most often use the XPro2.)

2. If you use the larger aperture primes (like the 23mm f/1.4 and similar lenses) you are going to notice that they block part of the scene inside the frame guides in the OVF. In some cases that might be OK, but in others it can be a problem. (I use a couple such lenses for my night street photography, and I switch to the EVF in most cases — not only can I see the exact frame edges without interference from the lens, but the simulated exposure in the EVF lets me see better in very low light.)

3. You can use much larger lenses on the XPro bodies in the same way that you would on the XT3 or XT4. You'll almost certainly switch to the OVF view, especially if you are using a zoom lens, at which point the experience is very similar to that of using the XT(x) bodies. (The EVF may not be quite as good, but that is hardly a deal breaker. I frequently work this way when photographing certain kinds of events and similar, using the 16-55mm f/2.8 and the 50-140mm f/2.8. I also do macro photography on the XPro2 using the 80mm f/2.8.)

The lens balance question is very subjective. On one hand, there is something familiar about holding a very large camera body with a large lens. On the other hand, I have found that after using a smaller body with larger lenses I adapt and hardly see it as a liability at all.

Dan

Apr 01, 2020 at 12:01 AM

infosecgeek
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

gdanmitchell wrote:
Here's my take on the lens size issue.

1. If you are using an XPro body as a rangefinder-style surrogate for the old-school rangefinder cameras and largely using the OVF, then smaller lenses are generally excellent choices. Fujifilm makes a bunch of them that are fine performers. (This is the way I most often use the XPro2.)

2. If you use the larger aperture primes (like the 23mm f/1.4 and similar lenses) you are going to notice that they block part of the scene inside the frame guides in the OVF. In some cases that might be OK, but in others it...Show more →

The large lenses isn't about FoV as I was fine shooting the 16 1.4 and 16-55 on it, it's it is no longer a I can throw this thing in my bag or jacket pocket to go out and about... The 50-140 was a bit too much for it (looked ridiculous and I was sure I'd rip the mount one of these days)

Apr 01, 2020 at 12:14 AM

goodbokeh
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

infosecgeek, I hope the thread helped sort your thoughts and that the "How Many Angels Can Dance on the Head of a Pin" crowd did not unduly influence you. What color of 100V did you opt for?
BTW, see how you enjoy the V's OVF/EVF in terms of clarity and high eyepoint because the XP2's may be a big let down for you afterwards...Maybe consider instead a used X-T3 for the similar EVF higher resolution and to get the important EFCS that all new Fujifilm cameras have. As a Sony owner you know it's there for a reason.

Apr 01, 2020 at 02:39 PM

infosecgeek
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

goodbokeh wrote:
infosecgeek, I hope the thread helped sort your thoughts and that the "How Many Angels Can Dance on the Head of a Pin" crowd did not unduly influence you. What color of 100V did you opt for?
BTW, see how you enjoy the V's OVF/EVF in terms of clarity and high eyepoint because the XP2's may be a big let down for you afterwards...Maybe consider instead a used X-T3 for the similar EVF higher resolution and to get the important EFCS that all new Fujifilm cameras have. As a Sony owner you know it's there for a reason.

Yeah

I went for black and it should be here in a few hours... I really really love the OVF/EVF overlay which is why I've enjoyed shooting with the x100 and xpro series..

Apr 01, 2020 at 02:54 PM

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