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Archive 2020 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

mkuznicki
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Interesting that those who own it like it. The biggest criticism seems to be coming from non-owners. If I was considering an XP3, I think I'd pay more attention to those who actually use it.

Mar 29, 2020 at 06:15 PM

Jman13
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

That's because those who dislike what Fuji did with the screen didn't buy one. I can tell you I'd currently own one if they had kept the screen the same as the X-Pro 2 or to something like the X100V.

mmm55 wrote:
Interesting that those who own it like it. The biggest criticism seems to be coming from non-owners. If I was considering an XP3, I think I'd pay more attention to those who actually use it.

Mar 29, 2020 at 06:26 PM

TheEmrys
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

That is silly. I (and many others) was waiting for this camera. I refuse to buy a product that cripples the way I shoot. I was so excited for it. And then they made a design choice that ruined it for me. The weird mini screen coupled with a fold down screen that doesn't articulate shows me right off the bat that it won't work for me. My recognition of a design choice that will hinder me creatively does not invalidate my opinion or even my point of view. I loved my Xpro2. But the sad truth is that Fuji is making poor design choices. The XH1 coming so close to the XT3 is one of them. They then decided to NARROW the appeal of the Xpro3. And the result of two underperforming (I won't say failed) flagship cameras is the sacrifice of the XE lineup. Even the fact that Fuji has 3 flagship bodies is a failure.

mmm55 wrote:
Interesting that those who own it like it. The biggest criticism seems to be coming from non-owners. If I was considering an XP3, I think I'd pay more attention to those who actually use it.

Mar 29, 2020 at 06:51 PM

TheEmrys
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

I would have an XPro3 if they had an Xpro2 screen, XT3 screen, or something like the screens of the old Sony DSLT's. I am not a fan of the mini screen or the top plate, which I find redundant on an EVF. I recognize others like them. But the bad screen articulation was just too much for me.

Jman13 wrote:
That's because those who dislike what Fuji did with the screen didn't buy one. I can tell you I'd currently own one if they had kept the screen the same as the X-Pro 2 or to something like the X100V.

Mar 29, 2020 at 06:54 PM

mkuznicki
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Not silly at all - it;s simply what I observed in this thread (and others like it). The OP already said he doesn't care about the screen, yet you are trying to convince him that the design is flawed. I understand there are many photographers who think the concept is stupid, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good choice for some (as evidenced by the supporters here and elsewhere).

TheEmrys wrote:
That is silly.

Mar 29, 2020 at 07:34 PM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

I really like my Xp3. I pretty much never use the rear screen, unless I am making changes in the menu etc.
I bought it for the OVF which is excellent with my primary lens - the 27mm - ok with a 35mm and if I use anything else I switch to EVF.
Which is where it is better than the XP2 - the EVF has a much better resolution which makes it clearer and easier to focus if you use MF lenses. My Fuji lenses are the 16 2.8 and 27 2.8, but I also carry a 50 1.1 7A in the bag for 3 lens kit.
I originally did not like the XP3 as I viewed it as an attempt to be a Leica M, but it is nothing like that. When I 'realized' it was an AF camera with a hybrid OVF/EVF viewfinder, I was in.

Mar 30, 2020 at 12:03 AM

oguruma
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

mmm55 wrote:
Interesting that those who own it like it. The biggest criticism seems to be coming from non-owners. If I was considering an XP3, I think I'd pay more attention to those who actually use it.

That's kind of a stupid argument, isn't it? I don't like cabbage, so I don't buy it. Do you regularly buy things you don't like?

Mar 30, 2020 at 02:03 AM

mkuznicki
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

No, what's stupid is the people who say "I don't like cabbage so you shouldn't either."

oguruma wrote:
That's kind of a stupid argument, isn't it? I don't like cabbage, so I don't buy it. Do you regularly buy things you don't like?

Mar 30, 2020 at 05:48 AM

TheEmrys
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

I like to think of it as Ford took the F-150, and decided that an open bed on a pickup didn't appeal to the crowd they wanted to appeal to, so they built a cover on the top of it. For those that need an open bed, they are now excluded from a great pickup. But for those who like the look and style of a pickup, and never need to use an open bed, they will love it.

Fuji pleased a group of people to exclude another group of people. That bothers me.

mmm55 wrote:
No, what's stupid is the people who say "I don't like cabbage so you shouldn't either."

Mar 30, 2020 at 08:52 AM

TheEmrys
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

The other thing that bothers me is the crippling of the OVF. But, like the rear screen, we talked about it to death in the Xpro3 thread.

Mar 30, 2020 at 09:18 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

^^^

People may have said, "I don't like cabbage and here is why," but I'm not seeing a lot of "you should not eat cabbage either."

This is an argument with phantoms.

One other point. While there can be a germ of truth in the argument that people who use a thing know it better than those who don't, there is a contrary argument pointing out the obvious, namely that if you bought and kept the thing you perhaps also have a bias towards liking it.

To sort of grossly overstate the shallowness of the argument, you might extrapolate it to point out that if you are deciding whether or not to become a heroin addict the advice you get from heroin addicts might not be the best advice... ;-)

On the other hand, in many cases the decision to NOT get a thing comes after a person with a great deal of experience spends a lot of time weighing the options in a careful and intelligent way and decides, based on knowledge, experience, and weighing the facts... not to get it.

Perhaps listening to BOTH sides makes more sense than a one-sided approach?

Edited on Mar 31, 2020 at 12:23 AM · View previous versions

Mar 30, 2020 at 09:20 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

^^^

People may have said, "I don't like cabbage and here is why," but I'm not seeing a lot of "you should not eat cabbage either."

This is an argument with phantoms.

One other point. While there can be a germ of truth in the argument that people who use a thing know it better than those who don't, there is a contrary argument pointing out the obvious, namely that if you bought and kept the thing you perhaps also have a bias towards liking it.

To sort of grossly illustrate the shallowness of the argument, you might extrapolate it as follows: If you are deciding whether or not to become a heroin addict the advice you get from heroin addicts might not be the best advice, and it might be worth listening to smart people who decided to not become addicted. ;-)

On the other hand, in many cases the decision to NOT get a thing comes after a person with a great deal of experience spends a lot of time weighing the options in a careful and intelligent way and decides, based on knowledge, experience, and weighing the facts... not to get it.

Perhaps listening to BOTH sides makes more sense than a one-sided approach?

Mar 30, 2020 at 09:20 AM

mkuznicki
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Give me a break! You've been bashing the X-Pro3 since before it was even released, and you're telling me to listen to both sides of an argument? Have you ever even held one in your hands?

gdanmitchell wrote:
Perhaps listening to BOTH sides makes more sense than a one-sided approach?

Mar 30, 2020 at 10:49 AM

nalax
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

To the OP, here are two options to help you make your own decision:

1. The used X-Pro3 is still at B&H. If the 30 day return policy applies also to used gear, see if you like it. If not return it.
2. Try one from lensrentals. They always have a promo going on. See if you like it or not.

Mar 30, 2020 at 11:14 AM

TheEmrys
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

My grandfather could look at a horse and tell you it wasn't a good horse. But he couldn't be sure it was a good horse until it was used (you don't ride a draft horse).

I have held it, and the rear screen and the crippled OVF make it a non-starter.

BTW, the topic of this thread says it all: Talk me out of an XPro3. If you are looking for people who like it, shouldn't you look your point of view in a thread like "Talk me into an XPro3"? The whole point of this topic is to unabashedly discuss the negatives of this body. Why does this surprise you?

mmm55 wrote:
Give me a break! You've been bashing the X-Pro3 since before it was even released, and you're telling me to listen to both sides of an argument? Have you ever even held one in your hands?

Mar 30, 2020 at 11:17 AM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

OK, things I don't like about it.. it does not come with a battery charger. And you cannot adjust the frame line brightness with native Fuji lenses, only with adapted lenses which is really weird to me.
Outdoors in bright light the OVF frame lines (and info) can be hard to see.

Mar 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM

psyclism
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

Good grief -- for those of you that don't like the camera, go away and play with the cameras you do like. Those of us who own (and love) the X-Pro3 can see the good through the bad. Some points:

1. Yes, the screen can slow down your access to menus by approximately 1 second IF you prefer to use the screen and not the EVF for menu access. No, you can't easily use the LCD as an arms length viewfinder, like a friggin tourist using a point and shoot. But you can still use it if you want, it just hangs below the camera and takes, again, 1 whole second to deploy. I still don't understand why anyone would use the rear screen for anything other than menus and waist shooting anyway -- the resolution sucks relative to the EVF and the image is washed out and is not representative of the image the camera will create in anything other than controlled lighting conditions.

2. You can use the LCD in overhead situations, you just turn the camera over. In the immortal words of John Lennon "it's easy if you try". This is arguably better because you can then see and adjust the ISO, SS, exposure comp, and aperture dials while the camera is still overhead. The camera is even smart enough to flip the image to the proper orientation so there's no post processing necessary.

3. Tripod usage is difficult with the flip down screen and I will absolutely agree with the arguments there. I'm not a frequent tripod user, so this is a non-issue for me since I use the camera for documentary and street photography, both genres this camera was specifically targeted towards and neither have much use for tripods. This camera was never designed or marketed for studio or landscape work. Can a hammer be used to drive in a screw? Yes, but it won't do it way the right tool would, so don't bitch because the hammer designer didn't optimize it for whacking in screws. Buy a screwdriver instead.

My ONLY complaint about the camera -- WTF were the designers thinking when they removed the click function from the front selector wheel? That wheel can control three different exposure functions, but you have to dedicate a different function button in order to toggle between them. Stupid stupid stupid x 1000 decision.

Other than that colossal blunder on Fuji's part, I couldn't be happier with the camera. However, since I generally use one of the three Auto ISO functions coupled with aperture priority 99% of the time, the missing click isn't a deal breaker for me. If I was a full manual shooter, this would likely make me reconsider the camera purchase and look elsewhere.

Is it a perfect camera? Oh hell no. Not even close. A few firmware updates fixing some of the issues other posters have identified will certainly bring it closer, but there's no way to make it perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect camera. The question is can you adapt to, and even learn to embrace, the faults of the camera?

So for those on the fence with regard to the X-Pro3, it's a great camera when used for the genres of photography it was designed for, which in this case is reportage/documentary/street. Skip it if you see yourself doing a lot of tripod work and frequently have the camera above eye level. Skip it if you like shooting with the camera at arms length. Skip it if you want to shoot video and/or take selfies like a self obsessed teenager. If you're a full manual shooter and prefer using command dials instead of the top controls, spend some serious time evaluating whether there are enough function buttons to meet your needs. Buy it if you appreciate the rangefinder form factor and primarily use a viewfinder or do a lot of waist level shooting. Buy it if you also do a l lot of overhead shooting and can adapt to *gasp* turning the camera over.

For its intended use, the camera is fantastic. But it is a very specialized tool for a small subset of photographic disciplines. The XT series is the jack of all trades, master of none camera. If you want a Swiss army knife, go that route. But if you fit into the target this camera was designed for, there isn't a better choice out there, save a $10k Leica.

Mar 30, 2020 at 11:53 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

That Guy wrote:
Give me a break! You've been bashing the X-Pro3 since before it was even released, and you're telling me to listen to both sides of an argument? Have you ever even held one in your hands?

Your inability to counter a single actual point I have made, along with your consistent propensity for distraction and ad hominem, tell us all we need to know about your notions.

I have not held an XPro3 in my hands. Go back to my post on the camera and explain how holding one would have altered any of the points I made.

BTW, I have held many cameras in my hands, including a wide variety of brands and models using almost every kind of rear screen imaginable, including those that I describe in my message. You know, the one you didn't actually read.

psyclism wrote:
Good grief -- for those of you that don't like the camera, go away and play with the cameras you do like.

I don't think you read the subject of the thread or the text of the OP's post. You know...

... the part where he asked folks to "Talk me out of an XPRO3."

;-)

I would add to your words: But it is a very specialized tool for a small subset of... photographers like me, who have been huge fans of the X-Pro-series bodies and who have used them extensively for years.

One more thing regarding: If you want a Swiss army knife, go that route.

I use the XPro2 specifically because it is more of a "Swiss Army knife" than the XT-series bodies. The X-Pro bodies are more versatile and flexible, not less. You certainly can use them as if they are old-school rangefinder (style) bodies, great for street and similar photography with small lenses of moderate focal length. In fact, that is my primary use for my XPro2: typically shooting street with lenses in the 14mm to 35mm range.

But...

They also have an EVF. And they work with ALL of the Fujifilm lenses. So sometimes I slap the 80mm macro on mine and photograph flowers. Or I photograph street at night with f/1.4 primes and use the EVF instead of the OVF, since it offers better visibility in low light conditions. Or I put a 16-55 f/2.8 or 50-140 f/2.8 on it and shoot events. Or take the darned thing backpacking and shoot from a lightweight tripod using only the 16-55.

So, actually, part of the beauty of the X-Pro cameras is precisely the fact that they ARE so versatile and excel at a wider range of photography that just about any other camera.

Dan

Edited on Mar 31, 2020 at 12:24 AM · View previous versions

Mar 30, 2020 at 01:37 PM

psyclism
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

I would add to your words: ... photographers like me, who have been huge fans of the X-Pro-series bodies and who have used them extensively for years.

Dan

So if you're the type of photographer this camera is targeted toward, what exactly is it about the camera that makes you hate it to the core of your soul? The flip screen? The loss of magnification screens in the OVF? Loss of D-pad?

Mar 30, 2020 at 01:54 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Talk me out of an XPRO3

psyclism wrote:
So if you're the type of photographer this camera is targeted toward, what exactly is it about the camera that makes you hate it to the core of your soul? The flip screen? The loss of magnification screens in the OVF? Loss of D-pad?

"Hate it to the core of your soul." Those are your words not mine.

You must not have read my post on the previous page where I answered the OP's question and explained the issues that many photographers have with the XPro3. I don't "hate to the core of my soul," but I shared my specific critique of the camera in that post. It is only one page back.You should be able to read it in a minute or two.

And, if I may, before you go reading it to find out what you can argue with, first try to understand my specific points about the camera.

And, as you read it, keep several things in mind:

1. I am a long-time Fujifilm fan. I do half of my photography using Fujifilm equipment.

2. I love the X-Pro concept, which is why I'm a very happy user of the XPro2.

3. I was responding to a person who asked for reasons to not buy the XPro3.

4. I was looking forward to the XPro3 before it was announced. There are things about it that I think are just fine, and it makes several improvements of the sort that we expect from camera companies every few years.

Dan

Edited on Mar 31, 2020 at 12:12 AM · View previous versions

Mar 30, 2020 at 02:15 PM

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