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Archive 2020 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

genji
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p.12 #1 · p.12 #1 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

After using Sony mirrorless cameras exclusively since the release of the NEX-5 in 2010, I purchased a Leica M10-P at the beginning of 2019. And never looked back. The M10-P was augmented by other Leica bodies including an ancient (2012) Leica M Monochrom, which rekindled my interest in shooting black and white film and so was joined by an M4.

Fred’s purchase of an M240 is guaranteed to cause massive cognitive dissonance amongst the multitude of Leica haters on FredMiranda.com. One of the reasons he gave resonated with me:

I can disconnect from all the modern electronic marvels keeping things simple and exercise creativity. This can also be done with my A7R IV but I am surprised by how much the rangefinder and simplicity of the Leica body can be satisfying to the shooting experience.

This satisfying simplicity and not having the camera do all the work for me was precisely why I made the switch to Leica.

So far I have two lenses for it. CV 35/1.2 III and Zeiss 35/1.4 ZM. (Staying away from Leica lenses)

Good luck with that! I was convinced that I would be perfectly happy sticking to CV and ZM lenses. Until I heard the siren call of the Black Chrome Edition Summilux-M 50/1.4 ASPH.

I can already tell you that the Voigt can't keep up with the ZM at infinity at wide apertures. (At close distance is no contest)
The ZM on the Leica is at Sigma 35/1.2 level. I'm floored. Too bad we can't get this performance on the Sony even with the PCX front lens mod.

My other reason (in addition to the challenge and the simplicity of photographing with a Leica) is that, after years of getting unsatisfying results, I came to the conclusion that adapting M-mount lenses to stock Sony bodies is a fool’s errand. And those who suggest that a thin-sensor mod or a front-end filter solves the problem are ignoring the advantage afforded by the inherent accuracy of rangefinder focusing with normal and wide lenses.

I find it quite surprising that the rangefinder allows me focus with great accuracy with both 35mm lenses wide open for environment portraits. I was not expecting that.

I’m hoping that Fred will choose to post his M240 pictures in the Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread. He’ll be warmly welcomed, as I was a year or so ago.

Apr 17, 2020 at 08:02 PM

DaveFP
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p.12 #2 · p.12 #2 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Apr 17, 2020 at 08:59 PM

nehemiahphoto
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p.12 #3 · p.12 #3 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

genji wrote:
After using Sony mirrorless cameras exclusively since the release of the NEX-5 in 2010, I purchased a Leica M10-P at the beginning of 2019. And never looked back. The M10-P was augmented by other Leica bodies including an ancient (2012) Leica M Monochrom, which rekindled my interest in shooting black and white film and so was joined by an M4.

Fred’s purchase of an M240 is guaranteed to cause massive cognitive dissonance amongst the multitude of Leica haters on FredMiranda.com. One of the reasons he gave resonated with me:

This satisfying simplicity and not having the camera do all the work for...Show more →

I know--I read Fred's post and thought it was funny cause it really will throw people. Especially when Bastian just wrote a review that was very technically minded where he was overwhelmingly disparaging of the M10. My biases push me thinking that Leica gear is just fine. Some of it is pretty magical, some of it is pretty meh.

Even though I don't own much Leica gear, shoot many brands, and have zero nostalgia with it. I do enjoy my film camera, love the some of the glass (75 Lux, 50 Lux, 35 lux pre-ash can be magical though not my type of lens) and am as interested in the experience as much as the technicalities. And we are largely past the point of sufficiency even with an M240, except things like macro or high DR scenes or AF or extreme FL's. Reminds me of the a900 which I simply love the output from, absolutely gorgeous if you can stay within the shooting envelope.

But, it's healthy to have a diversity of opinions on FM and otherwise. I do get a kick out of people being so passionately for or against. And I think the next camera I pick up will be a Mamiya 7 because of the simplicity and experience with the output. But I'll continue to run multiple systems as they each have their worth (to me).

Edited on Apr 17, 2020 at 09:01 PM · View previous versions

Apr 17, 2020 at 08:59 PM

rji2goleez
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p.12 #4 · p.12 #4 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Apr 17, 2020 at 08:59 PM

rscheffler
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p.12 #5 · p.12 #5 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Hey Steve,

Thanks for digging up my old link about the ZM35/1.4. Sorry the linked images no longer load... But you're right about the odd rhomboid OOF highlights from the ZM. Funny, after that first impressions review, I ended up instead with the CV35/1.7. I compared it against a friend's ZM35/1.4 and found the CV/1.7 was better at infinity on the M240, so wonder if maybe the friend's ZM was a bad copy?

genji wrote:
Fred’s purchase of an M240 is guaranteed to cause massive cognitive dissonance amongst the multitude of Leica haters on FredMiranda.com.

I thought the exact same thing. Oh the turmoil some on the Sony board must be experiencing.

genji wrote:
One of the reasons he gave resonated with me:

I can disconnect from all the modern electronic marvels keeping things simple and exercise creativity. This can also be done with my A7R IV but I am surprised by how much the rangefinder and simplicity of the Leica body can be satisfying to the shooting experience.

This satisfying simplicity and not having the camera do all the work for me was precisely why I made the switch to Leica.

It's a refreshing experience, isn't it?

So far I have two lenses for it. CV 35/1.2 III and Zeiss 35/1.4 ZM. (Staying away from Leica lenses)

genji wrote:
Good luck with that! I was convinced that I would be perfectly happy sticking to CV and ZM lenses. Until I heard the siren call of the Black Chrome Edition Summilux-M 50/1.4 ASPH.

Agreed. Eventually you will want to try some Leica lenses. That said, the CV M-mount lenses available today are extremely competitive with Leica compared to what they offered only ~5+ years ago. Also, Leica's M lenses are not necessarily perfection, despite what fanboys might want you to believe. Many have some warts, such as CA, LoCA, wavy field curvature and resulting mid zone dips (many of the Luxes). But that is typically compensated with rendering quality and ergonomics.

I find it quite surprising that the rangefinder allows me focus with great accuracy with both 35mm lenses wide open for environment portraits. I was not expecting that.

This is one of the key strengths of the rangefinder system that is so difficult to explain to those who have never tried it and can't believe that it could be an alternative to AF or EVFs. That said, the RF sweet spot really is with wide angle lenses. Fast 50s become more challenging, though still pretty easy if everything is calibrated.

genji wrote:
I’m hoping that Fred will choose to post his M240 pictures in the Leica M/X/T/S/Q Picture Thread. He’ll be warmly welcomed, as I was a year or so ago.

+1

I should also start posting again...

Apr 18, 2020 at 01:04 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.12 #6 · p.12 #6 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

That’s a good post Ron.

I find my CV 35 1.7 to be hellaciously sharp centrally. I don’t have crops, and there is a difference in contrast which helps the sharpness perception on the Zeiss, but I’d like to see a comparison. I wouldn’t be surprised if the CV 35 1.7 was even with the ZM 35 1.4, or a hair ahead or behind.

Apr 18, 2020 at 01:45 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.12 #7 · p.12 #7 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Apr 18, 2020 at 01:47 AM

nehemiahphoto
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p.12 #8 · p.12 #8 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for pointing out Bastian's article on the Leica M10. Great writing as always. He makes great points on the camera's shortcomings but at the end, it looks like he kept the camera.

Yup, the old frenemy 😉

Apr 18, 2020 at 01:52 AM

BastianK
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p.12 #9 · p.12 #9 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Fred Miranda wrote:
but at the end, it looks like he kept the camera.

Mainly because it gives interesting additional intel on M-mount lens reviews and because it looks cool.
For shooting experience/handling/image quality I would greatly prefer any kolari modded Sony...

Oh, and I never felt so much like a German before.

PPS: If I was testing Leica lenses on a Kolari modded Sony camera I would still get stupid
"you cannot assess the magic quality of a Leica lens on a non Leica camera" comments by the fanboys.
Despite the fact that it would make no difference (except for less color cast issues in the corners on the Sony camera...)

Apr 18, 2020 at 02:02 AM

rscheffler
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p.12 #10 · p.12 #10 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

nehemiahphoto wrote:
I know--I read Fred's post and thought it was funny cause it really will throw people. Especially when Bastian just wrote a review that was very technically minded where he was overwhelmingly disparaging of the M10. My biases push me thinking that Leica gear is just fine. Some of it is pretty magical, some of it is pretty meh.

Your post got me curious, so I read Bastian's M10 opinions and came to the conclusion that it provided no new information about the strengths and weaknesses of the Leica digital M system. For many it will read as additional justification for the popular shared belief in the irrelevance of the system, reinforced by the bias of the author. Which I think is unfortunate, if only because many will dismiss it without even trying it for themselves.

The M system's strengths tend to be narrowly applied in use and often subjective, unfortunately readily dismissed as fanboy talking points or discounted as poor value for the money paid compared to other contemporary systems. And in that respect, from a purely technical perspective, without doubt, there are better, less expensive generalist options available. But for some, the combination of all the technical strengths, weaknesses and subjective factors results in an preferred photographic tool.

It just bugs me that like many other pieces, it reads as though it's inconceivable that 'real' and 'working' photographers would prefer to use a Leica M over other options and instead lumps us all together as mesmerized adherents of the cult that is Leica... Gimme a break...

Anyways, looking forward to seeing more from the new 35/1.2III

Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for pointing out Bastian's article on the Leica M10. Great writing as always. He makes great points on the camera's shortcomings but at the end, it looks like he kept the camera.

As with any tool, you learn its strengths and weaknesses and work with and around them to your benefit. Admittedly the M system makes you work a bit harder in some areas than other systems.

Apr 18, 2020 at 03:26 AM

realVivek
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p.12 #11 · p.12 #11 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

I would be very cautious before making such proclamations.

BastianK wrote:
Mainly because it gives interesting additional intel on M-mount lens reviews and because it looks cool.
For shooting experience/handling/image quality I would greatly prefer any kolari modded Sony...

Oh, and I never felt so much like a German before.

PPS: If I was testing Leica lenses on a Kolari modded Sony camera I would still get stupid
"you cannot assess the magic quality of a Leica lens on a non Leica camera" comments by the fanboys.
Despite the fact that it would make no difference (except for less color cast issues in the corners on the Sony camera...)

Apr 18, 2020 at 06:04 AM

BastianK
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p.12 #12 · p.12 #12 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

realVivek wrote:
I would be very cautious before making such proclamations.

Not sure which part you are referring to.
Differences between Kolari Modded Sony and Leica: enough sources out there that show.
It is simply physics that depend on how thick that piece of glass in front of the sensor is.
Stupid comments: I had more than enough of those, that is less of a proclamation and more of a retrospective.

Apr 18, 2020 at 06:14 AM

realVivek
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p.12 #13 · p.12 #13 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

It is not that simply the presumptive “physics” and that is the problem. If you want to know more about it, I suggest that you purchase a Kolari UT filter and find out for yourself.

Anyway, it was posted as a well meant suggestion.

Apr 18, 2020 at 06:50 AM

LBJ2
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p.12 #14 · p.12 #14 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

rscheffler wrote:
Your post got me curious, so I read Bastian's M10 opinions and came to the conclusion that it provided no new information about the strengths and weaknesses of the Leica digital M system. For many it will read as additional justification for the popular shared belief in the irrelevance of the system, reinforced by the bias of the author. Which I think is unfortunate, if only because many will dismiss it without even trying it for themselves.

The M system's strengths tend to be narrowly applied in use and often subjective, unfortunately readily dismissed as fanboy talking points or discounted...Show more →

Wise words @rscheffler

The very thing I enjoy so much about using a Rangefinder is the hard work and practice I had to put into before I got something out of it even after years of wielding my Sony powerhouse cameras. Once it all clicked with the M10, my initial frustrations where replaced with a a strong feeling of accomplishment even with sports, dance and other fast moving targets.

Very personal, but I once wrote on one of these threads about this topic:

-When I use my supersonic Sony FF cameras I am amazed at what the camera can do.
-When I use the Leica M10, I am amazed at what I can do.

Neither emotion is right or wrong in my book, just how I describe what I like about the two very different systems I currently use.

Apr 18, 2020 at 09:53 AM

LBJ2
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p.12 #15 · p.12 #15 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Anyway, back to the party! Fred bought a Leica Rangefinder( too cool) and Voigtlander is cranking out more fine tiny and fast optics for both M-mount and E-mount with no end in sight !

Apr 18, 2020 at 09:58 AM

GMPhotography
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p.12 #16 · p.12 #16 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Short story . At one time I used Leica only to do Professional work. I had two M8 cameras and about 11 lenses. First issue was both not one but both wound up in Germany under repair for about 6 months. Very weird issue with the M8 . Luckily I was a friend of the folks at Leica they sent two loaners for all that time. I loved shooting the Rangefinders but it was very difficult to actually use them with the many different types of work. I finally gave up and went Medium format DSLR style. Much better but still posed some issues. RF cams are nice but costs versus usage is something you really have to think about. I sold those Leicas also for the lack of Mpx.

Apr 18, 2020 at 10:04 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.12 #17 · p.12 #17 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

GMPhotography wrote:
Short story . At one time I used Leica only to do Professional work. I had two M8 cameras and about 11 lenses. First issue was both not one but both wound up in Germany under repair for about 6 months. Very weird issue with the M8 . Luckily I was a friend of the folks at Leica they sent two loaners for all that time. I loved shooting the Rangefinders but it was very difficult to actually use them with the many different types of work. I finally gave up and went Medium format DSLR style. Much better but...Show more →

Don't even look at the M240 used prices right now Guy.

Apr 18, 2020 at 12:47 PM

GMPhotography
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p.12 #18 · p.12 #18 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Fred Miranda wrote:
Don't even look at the M240 used prices right now Guy.

Also, Voigtlander really stepped up to the plate in the last 4-5 years and offers great alternatives to Leica lenses imho. (Don't forget the Zeiss ZM line as well)

In the case of the new CV 35/1.2 III, it works on the Sony without any field curvature. (never seen this before). So one lens for both systems.
Other lenses that work well for both Sony and Leica are: CV 12/5.6, CV 21/3.5 (vintage line), CV 50/3.5 Heliar (vintage line) and to some extent, the 75/1.5 Nokton. The latter will...Show more →

Be a nice retirement setup. I really got the itch . I honestly don’t see a big recovery on the Professional front

Apr 18, 2020 at 12:56 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.12 #19 · p.12 #19 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

Fred Miranda wrote:
Don't even look at the M240 used prices right now Guy.

If you are patient, you can get a grab a deal here at FM.
Also, Voigtlander really stepped up to the plate in the last 4-5 years and offers great alternatives to Leica lenses imho. (Don't forget the Zeiss ZM line as well)

In the case of the new CV 35/1.2 III, it works on the Sony without any field curvature. (never seen this before). So one lens for both systems.
Other lenses that work well for both Sony and Leica are: CV 12/5.6, CV 21/3.5 (vintage line),...Show more →

Other Leica M lenses that work reasonably well on Sony even though like the CV 75 f/1.5 they work better on Leica M cameras include: the 16-21 f/4 WATE; the 28 f/2 Summicron Asph (newest model # 11672); the 28 f/1.4 Summilux Asph; the 50 f/2 Summicron AA; the 75 f/2.4/2.5 Summarit; the 90 f/2 Summicron AA. I think you could add the CV M Mount 50 f/1.2 as well, and of course a number of us have used the ZM 85 f/4 on Sony and it is wonderful and probably works just as well on Sony as on a Leica camera. Not sure any of these actually make sense on Sony, but as lenses for people who have both systems at least some of them might make sense.

Apr 18, 2020 at 01:52 PM

1bwana1
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p.12 #20 · p.12 #20 · In Stock: Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton III Aspherical

GMPhotography wrote:
Be a nice retirement setup. I really got the itch . I honestly don’t see a big recovery on the Professional front

Don't be so full of gloom Guy. Personal circumstances aside, the general photography industry will go on.

People will not change. They will still want to document milestone moments in their lives. Newborn, birthdays, graduations, engagement weddings, family portraits, portraits in general, will all still be valued. What loss does come will be the result in the continued advance in technologies that we have already been experiencing, not the virus.

Businesses and industries will still need imagery just as before the virus. That is also not going to change because of the virus.

As in any economic downturn budgets may be reduced for a period of time. But an ambitious and effective businessperson will always find ways to deal with such things.

It will be OK.

Apr 18, 2020 at 01:56 PM

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