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Archive 2020 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

Luvwine
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

I recently bought a new camera and this has caused me to reevaluate my gear. I have been shooting Sony Full Frame for a while (since A7R) and still have a Sony A7RIV body, but recently added a Fuji GFX 100. I was noticing that the GFX is a bit more sensitive to vibration and such when I was shooting on a bridge with traffic compared to my experience with Sony. I have been using a RRS 24L tripod and just ordered at RRS 34L as I figure a beefier tripod will not hurt and be a bit more stable in wind and such. This got me thinking about heads. I have used a smaller Markin, a RRS Bh-40, and most commonly, a BH-55. However, I recently bought and enjoy using the Arca Swiss P0. Its design is very clever in a small and light package it holds any load I have thrown on it with ease and I love the panning is done on the top of the ball. This means that I can use a spirit level, level the head, and then do horizontal panos without issue. It is lighter than the BH55 and more functional. To get the same functionality with the BH-55, I have to add a RRS pano clamp on top. I have done this, but the weight is annoying. I have also been tempted by the Arca Swiss Leveler 75 and the Cube to allow for more exact movements and panos in horizontal and vertical axes with precision. Anyway, in investigating heads, I stumbled across the ratings in "The Center Column" Blog, I noted that the heads I am enjoying using (P0 and the Cube) are not rated as well for stability in their testing as say the BH-55. What I don't know is if anyone has seen any differences in real world use. Appreciate any feedback.

https://thecentercolumn.com/head-rankings/ball-head-rankings/

Feb 16, 2020 at 05:11 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

I use my C1 Cube with up to a 500mm f/4L IS lens (but, not often with the 500). I've never had any issues with 'stability', but that might depend on how 'stability' is defined and measured. I also have other geared heads and ball heads. In general, I use a ball head when I want fast and flexible setup, and I use a slower but much more precise, geared head for things like tilt-shift and high-magnification photography.

Feb 16, 2020 at 05:30 PM

elkhornsun
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

I would not recommend relying on the ratings from any manufacturer for legs or heads for tripods. I had the RRS TVC-34L but replaced it with the Feisol CT-3472 that is equally stable and collapses shorter and provides me with three mounting setups (standard, quick leveling, and center column) that I can change in seconds.

I have the Kirk BH-1 and it is an excellent ballhead but for landscapes and interior shooting I bought the Arca-Swiss D4 GP head and it is incredible. I can make micro adjustments on either axis to get the camera perfectly level and it is rock solid while doing so. With a ballhead I would need to lossen it, change the position of the camera, lock the head, check the level and then repeart again and again.

The ballhead is quite crude compared to a geared head (Arca-Swiss D4 GP cost me $1,158), but then the ballheads costs less than half as much and so this is to be expected. The D4 supports a 32% great load than the RRS BH-55 or the Kirk BH-1 as the D4 is designed to be able to support large and heavy studio cameras.

Feb 16, 2020 at 07:08 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

Feb 17, 2020 at 02:11 AM

AlexNOR
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

I've never touched the GFX 100, but I use the GFX 50S with a Cube GP on a RRS 3-series tripod. The weak link in this setup is the stiffness of the camera body itself, not the Cube, the tripod, or any of the many other links in between the camera and the ground.

Does it matter in the real world? Not in my experience. The weakest link has to be somewhere.

Feb 17, 2020 at 08:32 AM

peter_n
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

elkhornsun wrote:
I have the Kirk BH-1 and it is an excellent ballhead but for landscapes and interior shooting I bought the Arca-Swiss D4 GP head and it is incredible.

I second this because the Arca-Swiss d4 is a quality geared head that can also be used as a ballhead in a pinch. Just open the two teardrop knobs and it acts like a ballhead. I've only had to do it once when I forgot to pack an Acratech head. The one drawback is weight, my d4 has a 60mm Hejnar dovetail on the bottom and a 40mm RRS lever-release clamp on the top and it weighs 2.328lbs. It's just so precise though...

Feb 17, 2020 at 09:51 AM

DaveTCC
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

Luvwine wrote:
I recently bought a new camera and this has caused me to reevaluate my gear. I have been shooting Sony Full Frame for a while (since A7R) and still have a Sony A7RIV body, but recently added a Fuji GFX 100. I was noticing that the GFX is a bit more sensitive to vibration and such when I was shooting on a bridge with traffic compared to my experience with Sony. I have been using a RRS 24L tripod and just ordered at RRS 34L as I figure a beefier tripod will not hurt and be a bit more stable...Show more →

I want to be precise when talking about the stability of heads. There are a number of factors that go into the user's perception of stability and my rankings page only deals with one of them: stiffness. Stiffness is important because it is the way we can quantify the all important ability of a head to keep the camera still. Stiffness is simply the proportionality constant between how much force is placed on the camera and how much it moves. Movement = Torque/Stiffness. Obviously more stiffness is better. But if there are very few forces acting on the camera, stiffness will not matter as much. And in practice, you can't tell the difference between any flex in the legs and the head, so depending on the legs you are using you may or may not notice a difference with a stiffer head. Because geared heads don't fully lock down like ball heads do (there is backlash in the gearing system), they tend to be less stiff.

No reasonably head is going to physically collapse under the weight of normal camera gear. If the weight is off to the side, it will exert a torque on the head and the friction mechanism on the ball head could slip. This is how most manufacturers create their weight rating. Note though that it should be a torque rating.

The ergonomics of the head make a big difference in perceived stability. Geared heads such as the Cube excel here. The Cube places the center of rotation right at the camera, making adjustments feel effortless as the center of mass of the camera's weight doesn't move. Compare this to a ball head where gravity wants to pull the camera to the side and you have to support it with your hands. So despite being less stiff, the geared head will feel like it supports weight much better than a ball head. If subjected to heavy winds though, I would want the stiffer ball head.

Feb 17, 2020 at 09:08 PM

jharter
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

The Arca P0 is a great head. I think it is the best ball head for its size/class. For a bit smaller gear, I like the Acratech GP-SS in inverted position.

Anyway, you might try the Arca P1 which is a bit larger than the P0. Hard to beat Arca ballheads for weight/design/stability which is why there are so many knock-offs.

Cubes are excellent too but heavy, tall, and rather slow to adjust and very expensive.

Feb 17, 2020 at 10:40 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

jharter wrote:
The Arca P0 is a great head. I think it is the best ball head for its size/class. For a bit smaller gear, I like the Acratech GP-SS in inverted position.

Anyway, you might try the Arca P1 which is a bit larger than the P0. Hard to beat Arca ballheads for weight/design/stability which is why there are so many knock-offs.

Cubes are excellent too but heavy, tall, and rather slow to adjust and very expensive.

Cube is almost the same weight as the BH-55. The Leveler 75 is lighter. BH-55 is cheaper tho and for me less elegant in use, tho I like the RRS tripod legs and clamps a lot. I put a RRS lever clamp on my P0. I have never tried the P1. Good idea, tho. I swear that I will eventually have enough different tripod legs, heads, and camera bags to allow any reasonable person to infer I should be in a mad house, lol.

Feb 17, 2020 at 11:07 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

Luvwine wrote:
... I swear that I will eventually have enough different tripod legs, heads, and camera bags to allow any reasonable person to infer I should be in a mad house, lol.

There's still room.

Feb 18, 2020 at 06:16 AM

peter_n
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

jcolwell wrote:
There's still room.

^ Yes there is!

My Arca-Swiss d4 weighs 2.328lbs but doesn't look out of place on my travel tripod which handled it pretty well the couple of times I used it on the series-1. It's heavier than my hardly used BH-55 LR at 1.965lbs. The d4 is on a series-3 tripod and my traveler has a combo FLM LB-15 leveling base with an Arca-Swiss L60 on top that weighs 1.7lbs total with 25° of motion. It's a bit of a stack but it's very solid. The regular ballhead for the traveler is an Acratech GP-ss that weighs 1.021lbs, so not a huge amount of difference with the Acratech.

Feb 18, 2020 at 01:10 PM

jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

A route that number of people have gone have been to use the Acratech Long Lens Head in conjunction with a leveling base. It is a bit fiddly, having to adjust each axis separately. But from all accounts it is as stable as you can get yet keeping down the weight and bulk. Main advantage over the D4 IMHO is: (a) maybe(?) cost; (b) maybe(?) weight; and (c) field-worthiness. The last would be the selling point for me: I want something I can hike with, get some sand/mud/dust in, get wet and dry out, throw into the trunk of a muddy 4x4 or the bottom of a wet canoe etc. etc. without worrying about messing up some delicate internal mechanism.

Another thing to consider is that vibration can sneak in at many points in the entire system. For e.g., I have found that the lens foot of my 100-400 is a major culprit, visibly flexing/vibrating in conditions where in contrast the ballheads I used (Markins Q-20i previously; now the Acratech GXP) seemed stable enough. I also used to use a battery grip on my A7RIII body, but ditched that due to flexing.

Fact is that, with your camera body alone being more than TWICE the weight (1400g vs 665g) and 1.6-2.5x the resolution as the Sony A7R III/IV series, you are going to to be brutally stressing any support you try beyond my and many folks experience!

Feb 18, 2020 at 03:23 PM

Chris Court
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

jeetsukumaran wrote:
A route that number of people have gone have been to use the Acratech Long Lens Head in conjunction with a leveling base. It is a bit fiddly, having to adjust each axis separately. But from all accounts it is as stable as you can get yet keeping down the weight and bulk.

That’s exactly the solution I’ve settled on for my landscape shooting. I don’t find it to be excessively fiddly to use, though. The base gives a quick and accurate way to level the horizon, and then you are left with only pitch and rotational axes to adjust, which is quick and easy, especially if you have a composition in mind in advance.

I also have an Arca D4 (non-GP version), but don’t find it nearly as useful since a) if you are using it to level your horizon, you are limited to single-row panos, and b) only the pitch and roll axes are geared, Instead of the more useful (in my usage) rotational axis.

I also own or have used most of the ballheads mentioned in this thread, and for non-landscape use they are fine, but now that I primarily focus on landscapes they all just languish on a shelf in my office.

C

Feb 19, 2020 at 03:21 AM

jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

Chris Court wrote:
That’s exactly the solution I’ve settled on for my landscape shooting. I don’t find it to be excessively fiddly to use, though. The base gives a quick and accurate way to level the horizon, and then you are left with only pitch and rotational axes to adjust, which is quick and easy, especially if you have a composition in mind in advance.

I also have an Arca D4 (non-GP version), but don’t find it nearly as useful since a) if you are using it to level your horizon, you are limited to single-row panos, and b) only the pitch...Show more →

Good to hear that in practice the separate axis adjustments are not too odious. I am thrilled to bits with my GXP, but recognize that I might in the future need a sturdier support (maybe if I ever go to 100MP+ MF!!), and will file LLH+leveling base as a suitable solution for later.

BTW, wonderful captures of a beautiful land!

Feb 19, 2020 at 12:18 PM

danski0224
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

Luvwine wrote:
I recently bought a new camera and this has caused me to reevaluate my gear. I have been shooting Sony Full Frame for a while (since A7R) and still have a Sony A7RIV body, but recently added a Fuji GFX 100. I was noticing that the GFX is a bit more sensitive to vibration and such when I was shooting on a bridge with traffic compared to my experience with Sony. I have been using a RRS 24L tripod and just ordered at RRS 34L as I figure a beefier tripod will not hurt and be a bit more stable...Show more →

I had a Cube, and outside of the exceptional machining work, I wasn't really impressed. I found the adjustment knobs/wheels to be too small and difficult to adjust. There is a knockoff version that appears to have larger knobs, but the price is a significant fraction of the original.

I tried a knockoff of the Arca-Swiss D-4, and it lacked any way to lock down the adjustment. There was also significant slop in the gear adjustment that had to be taken up before anything happened. I do not know if the Arca-Swiss model has similar characteristics.

There is the KPS T5 Micro Tilt geared ball head. Nicely made, price has gone up a bit since it was released.

I finally settled on a Manfrotto 405 geared head and a Hejnar Photo quick release conversion kit. There is a tiny bit of slop in the initial adjustment which may be related to how the quick setting adjustment works. This geared head will lock down like a very good ball head. I have never had it move or creep with any lens combination that I have tried- even with the camera+lens on an adjustable rail. Yes, it is relatively bulky and heavy. I have it mounted to a Novoflex 75mm leveling base.

Ries has a couple of interesting tripod heads.

As far as vibrations are concerned, I am not of the opinion that carbon fiber is the correct choice to reduce vibrations. Carbon fiber is stiff, and the dampening properties change based on tube diameter, shape and weave.

If vibration reduction is a primary goal, then I would look at a wood tripod.

There are rubber pads sold to go under telescope tripods that may help. These are way less expensive than a new tripod. I've also thought about sticking some sheet rubber between the tripod and head.

A shiny new RRS carbon tripod will look cool, and it will certainly work better than most anything else out there, but I am not sure that it is the best choice. The vibration needs to be addressed before it gets to the camera head.

Feb 20, 2020 at 04:46 PM

elkhornsun
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

peter_n wrote:
I second this because the Arca-Swiss d4 is a quality geared head that can also be used as a ballhead in a pinch. Just open the two teardrop knobs and it acts like a ballhead. I've only had to do it once when I forgot to pack an Acratech head. The one drawback is weight, my d4 has a 60mm Hejnar dovetail on the bottom and a 40mm RRS lever-release clamp on the top and it weighs 2.328lbs. It's just so precise though...

The D4 GP with quick release version weighs 2.25 lbs and the one without the geared panning weighs 1.75 lbs., as compared to the Kirk BH-1 that weighs 1.9 lbs and the RRS BH-55 with its weight of 2.0 lb, so the differences are only 4-5 ounces and should not affect the decision to buy one.

Feb 20, 2020 at 05:41 PM

peter_n
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

danski0224 wrote:
If vibration reduction is a primary goal, then I would look at a wood tripod.

Absolutely, I have a wooden Berlebach and it's amazing. It's really heavy to cart around though on top of its awkward length. Unfortunately it also attracts attention. But it works great on things like bridges and heavily trafficked streets.

Feb 25, 2020 at 04:06 PM

peter_n
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

danski0224 wrote:
Ries has a couple of interesting tripod heads.

They are also selling Acratech's latest head the GXP.

Feb 25, 2020 at 04:28 PM

peter_n
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Ball head (or geared head) stability differences?

danski0224 wrote:
I tried a knockoff of the Arca-Swiss D-4, and it lacked any way to lock down the adjustment. There was also significant slop in the gear adjustment that had to be taken up before anything happened. I do not know if the Arca-Swiss model has similar characteristics.

If the knockoff was a Sunwayfoto GH-Pro you may have used an early version. They were pretty bad I believe. I got a version 4 (I think) of that head when I was looking for a bit of experience on the cheap with geared heads. Unfortunately I became addicted and now have the real thing. I can tell you that all the Arca-Swiss geared heads I've tried out; L60, L75, d4 and the C1 cube have zero slop. They are very precise.

Feb 27, 2020 at 06:38 PM


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