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Archive 2020 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED

armd
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


In the past I've reported on some experiences with the MC-11 adapter and a variety of Sony lenses. It seemed to work well with the shorter FL lenses (primes > zooms) and then once one grabbed a 100-400 or longer lens, the performance seemed to wane. In the case of the 500mm f/4 IS II, the lens would focus slowly and not "rack" the full focus distance. One would have to manually focus much of the way and then the body would grab critical focus.

In the last couple of days, Sigma released firmware v1.29 for the MC-11 adapter. It now supports the Sigma 500 f/4 and 100-400. I went ahead and updated the adapter and decided to see how it would pair with one of my legacy primes, the Canon 500 f/4 IS II. As, I am a relatively recent convert to Sony, I still have a ton of Canon gear and have not yet made the total conversion to their systems (but that's a whole another story).

Well, it's pretty ugly here today - dark and wet and my desire to traipse out into the mess as well as subject matter are limited. While it is too early to discern if the combination will rack the lens or follow BIF, I was amazed at how much the AF speed and performance improved for perched subjects even with a TC. The AF worked generally well in the modes tested which included AF-C, animal tracking on, Wide and spot center. I couldn't discern a pattern to the misses which occurred primarily in wide irrespective of the AF point recorded in the EXIF suggesting that the AF point was right on. Surprisingly, the camera kicked into animal eye focus (probably inappropriately) on a couple of occasions. Additionally, what was new is that prior to this update, none of the EXIF seemed to display PDAF AF points when using the 500mm. Now, they seem to be appearing.

Below, are a couple of sample images at relatively high ISO, cropped around 66%, processed through Topaz DeNoise AI, AI Clear (High, High, detail recovery), along a sample oof image which was left alone to demonstrate the baseline noise as well as the image EXIF AF points as indicated in Wolfram's program.





Wide AF - AF ended up catching chest












Center spot - animal eye captured - sharp












Wide OOF in spite of AF point being right on - appears FF








Edited on Jan 26, 2020 at 01:16 PM · View previous versions



Jan 25, 2020 at 01:35 PM
Choderboy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Did you get a Green light with Canon 500 and TC?

Sigma Global still say:
MOUNT CONVERTER MC-11 is not compatible with teleconverters

For Sigma 500 f4: Not compatible with AFC or AFA





Jan 25, 2020 at 07:32 PM
baltmin
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


This is very interesting. What about the peripheral focus points? Are they now more responsive?
My experience with metabones is that every adapted telephoto lens is useless unless the central or near central focus area is used.



Jan 26, 2020 at 02:23 AM
armd
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Choderboy wrote:
Did you get a Green light with Canon 500 and TC?

Sigma Global still say:
MOUNT CONVERTER MC-11 is not compatible with teleconverters

For Sigma 500 f4: Not compatible with AFC or AFA



The green light will not illuminate with non-compatible, non-Sigma lenses. It doesn’t mean that the lens won’t operate, or indicate to what degree the lens will function. What I can say is af speed has improved with the firmware upgrade for the Canon 500 is ii With a TC and I hope to add information regarding tracking and af points if the weather cooperates.



Jan 26, 2020 at 07:55 AM
LS_Ren
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


I use my 600mm II regualarly with the A9 via MC-11 with or without tc. Personally I find that sigam’s global vision TCs work better than the native canon tcs, although it is quite hard to test objectively. Anyone else care to share their experiences?


Jan 26, 2020 at 10:31 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


I was a regular user of 400DOII and both Canon TCs (usually the 2xIII). I have never tried Sigma TCs so cant say how they compare. I also used the 600II awhile ago on older FW and before A9 FW 5.0. It functioned fine with TCs also.

LS_Ren wrote:
I use my 600mm II regualarly with the A9 via MC-11 with or without tc. Personally I find that sigam’s global vision TCs work better than the native canon tcs, although it is quite hard to test objectively. Anyone else care to share their experiences?




Jan 26, 2020 at 12:08 PM
armd
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Interim Update...

Went out today to try to see how well the combination would perform for tracking. Unfortunately, it is another abysmal day with terrible light and rain/mist with an Ev around 9. The usual cast of characters are hiding, so I did my best to try to obtain some additional information. Atmospherics were predominant and few subjects were airborne so I did my best to find something which was moving to better assess tracking. Overall, as I observed yesterday the AF was speedy with evidence of "green squares" dancing across the desired subject. AF-C wide seemed to be performing a bit better with a more accurate results. AF-C flexible small spot struggled a bit more today in circumstances of extreme contrast (dark subject, strong backlighting or reflections).

Overall, the af with this combination was impressive though again I don't have any data on how it will track BIF. PDAF appeared to be active as demonstrated in Wolfram's program. Once again, animal eye focus worked in some circumstances and the results were impressive. Look at the extreme closeup of the Bison with the reflection. The combination is pretty impressive considering the combination of a high MP camera, a TC, an adapter, and competitor's lens. Until the v1.29 update I was contemplating putting the 500 IS II up for sale to help fund a Sony 600 f/4 (that and a lot of panhandling and carwashes). For now, I'll be keeping it and using the lens for further exploration while using the Sony 200-600 for travel.

Some might ask, why the extreme ISO's and why not cut back the Tv? It's a fair point and since I was looking for BIF or moving subjects, and hand holding I wanted a high Tv to minimize the possibility of camera shake at 700mm. The a7riv requires higher Tv's for pixel sharpness compared for lower MP bodies. Interestingly, and importantly, I did dial back the ISO/Tv for the bison shots and the results are pretty impressive at Tv 1/400, demonstrating that the len's IS was working great (at least I heard it whirring). If I am not mistaken, IBIS does not activate for lenses it does not recognize so I suspect that only the IS was active.

BTW, the MC-11 has no weather sealing to speak of and I was out in a steady light mist without problems. Next time, I'll probably stop and put on the lens rain jacket. EXIF is listed as well as degrees of crop, and any other information. As usual, thoughts and comments are appreciated and hopefully the trolls will stay under the bridge.








Crop ~25% AF-C wide, Tracked well on bird's head swimming slowly away. NR Topaz AI Clear (High, High, recover 0.2)












Crop ~ 25% AF-C wide, Tracked well on bird as it was busy preening. NR Topaz AI Clear (High, High, recover 0.2)












Crop ~ 50%, AF-C wide, Generally tracked well, occasionally grabbed log instead, NR AI Clear (High, High, Recover 0.2)












Crop ~ 50%, AF-C wide, AF quickly jumped to bird after having just focused on the nuthatch on the log, NR AI Clear (High, High, Recover 0.2)









Jan 26, 2020 at 01:10 PM
armd
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Continued





Crop ~ 25% AF-C wide, bison moving slowly towards me, (NR, AI DeNoise, auto)












No crop, AF-C flexible spot, animal eye active, (NR, AI Denoise, auto)







Eye Crop









Jan 26, 2020 at 01:13 PM
armd
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Update 1/28/2020

It's still dark and miserable in the Midwest and I've been unable to test the combination on any fast moving subjects (perched birds, slow moving Bison, and swimming Swans are hardly definitive), however out of sheer boredom, I wondered would the a7RIV pared to a Canon 500 IS II and the MC-11 v.1.29 firmware possibly work with a 2x TC? Now, my personal experience with the 2x and the 500 IS II on Canon bodies has been poor. While the 2x performs reasonably well with a fast f/2.8 lens such as the 300 or 400, IQ was simply coke bottle-esque on the 500.

Attaching the Canon 2x III to the 500 IS II, I was not optimistic. Would it AF? Would the IQ be better than peering through a cloudy window? These are just a couple of photos, shot at low Tv for a 1000mm lens (1/640), cropped ~ 50% run through "auto" on Topaz Denoise AI, and presented here. Of note, the AF system shot in AF-C, wide was lighting up and DOF at this distance at f/8 is around 1".














Jan 28, 2020 at 10:50 AM
johnvanr
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Not bad. I just received the MC-11 today and plan to use it with my Canon 500mm tomorrow. If it works well, I’ll keep the lens for a while as I lack the funds for a long Sony f/4 lens.


Jan 28, 2020 at 07:11 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


armd wrote:
Update 1/28/2020

It's still dark and miserable in the Midwest and I've been unable to test the combination on any fast moving subjects (perched birds, slow moving Bison, and swimming Swans are hardly definitive), however out of sheer boredom, I wondered would the a7RIV pared to a Canon 500 IS II and the MC-11 v.1.29 firmware possibly work with a 2x TC? Now, my personal experience with the 2x and the 500 IS II on Canon bodies has been poor. While the 2x performs reasonably well with a fast f/2.8 lens such as the 300 or 400, IQ was simply coke
...Show more

Interesting that you never got clear images with your Canon bodies and 500II/2xTCIII. I had great images with my own 600II/2xTCIII and with surfnron's 500II/2xTCIII when I used it for a full afternoon of shooting in Florida a few years back. Of course careful AFMA was often needed (although I never did any with Ron's lens). And of course performance was best on bodies in the 18-30MP FF range and not as predictable on 7DII and 5DSR that I had.

Certainly MILCs make lens/TC combos much more predictable for focus. I get much better results with my Nikon 500PF and 1.7 or 2.0TCs on my Z50 compared to D850/D500.












Jan 28, 2020 at 07:31 PM
armd
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Today, we finally had some sun after two + weeks of battleship gray, barely luminescent skies. I feel as though I've woken up from a two week coma and am still cussing out the misses for making me move to this forsaken place. My apologies for the editorial as the real question is whether or not the adapted MC-11 + a Canon long lens + a TC can perform on the a7RIV for more than static subjects. This morning was spent at one of my usual haunts and apart from enjoying a nice walk in the sunshine, I was hoping for a few BIF opportunities. Unfortunately, most subjects were grounded other than the usual passerines and they were either under cover or too quick for me to grab some in flight captures. The waterfowl and other interesting birds were too far out in the open water for any realistic shots. On the way out, I spied this duo just sitting on the frozen ice. After watching them for around 10-15 minutes they finally treated me to a blast off. Of note, the images were hand held and all 9 in the series were in perfect focus. Would my 200-600 have kept up? Doubtful. Anyhow, from this one test, I am extremely pleased and optimistic especially tracking white on white.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1633773/0?year=current#lastmessage



Feb 02, 2020 at 04:39 PM
Jay Ford
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Stupid question time - what is the software you're using to show AF points?


Feb 02, 2020 at 06:37 PM
armd
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Jay Ford wrote:
Stupid question time - what is the software you're using to show AF points?


Certainly not a stupid question. It was written by Wolfram Soens and the website is in German though most of the program is freeware and written in English. You can always use google translate and if you like the program be sure to hit the tip jar and send him a few $ or euros.

https://www.soens.de/



Feb 03, 2020 at 02:29 PM
Jay Ford
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


That is one very well-designed utility, very far ahead of the simple "where was my focus point" display I was used to from Canon's RAW processor. The major RAW processors - Adobe, C1, et al, should license and integrate it. Thank you very muchly.


Feb 03, 2020 at 06:15 PM
mkotar
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Hi Armd,

Can you maybe post some updated photos from MC11 and your canon glass with the newest firmware?

How do you find AFC with High and High+ modes working? can you track and shoot subjects without any issues or there are some slow-downs etc ?

Also what bodies do you use? Did you have a chance to check mc11 with canon 400 f2.8 IS II or with any canon extenders?



Aug 14, 2020 at 05:50 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


I wasn't aware of the newest fw for the MC-11 but comparing it to my Metabones V, the metabones is much better with my 500 f/4L IS II and 300 f/2.L IS than the Sigma. The Sigma can't focus anywhere close to mfd and just continually hunts in that region. It also often won't focus on distant objects again hunting for no apparent reason even with good contrast. I tried the Metabone yesterday on the 300 and A9 and it worked great, rarely missed and focuses at mfd no problems. I only bought the MC-11 as everyone says it's better than the Metabones for the big glass. I hope the new fw improves things greatly or I will sell it.


Aug 14, 2020 at 06:14 AM
mkotar
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Yeah there is new firmware. I used to have mc11 but i replaced all EF glass with Sony ones and sold mine. But now i am thinking of buying Canon 400 /2.8 is2 from my friend [no cash for sony gm] and trying to get as many info about the compatibility between that lens, mc11/metabones and sony a7r3, a9 etc

I need to know if afc works in high or high plus continous shooting in movable point or center af zone



Aug 15, 2020 at 01:21 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


mkotar wrote:
Yeah there is new firmware. I used to have mc11 but i replaced all EF glass with Sony ones and sold mine. But now i am thinking of buying Canon 400 /2.8 is2 from my friend [no cash for sony gm] and trying to get as many info about the compatibility between that lens, mc11/metabones and sony a7r3, a9 etc

I need to know if afc works in high or high plus continous shooting in movable point or center af zone


On A9 you get a maximum 10fps with adapted glass, but I don't mind as I don't or at least very rarely use the 20fps. On the A7RIII I would avoid the Hi plus as you don't get a live view, stick to Hi which is 8fps


* Footnote [1]: on [Hi+], if F-value is greater than F8 the focus is locked to the setting in the first shot.
* Footnote [2]: RAW images recorded with this camera have a resolution of 14 bits per pixel. However,
resolution is limited to 12 bits in the following shooting modes:[Cont. Shooting] when [RAW File Type] is set
to [Compressed]
* Footnote : The shooting speed during continuous shooting becomes slower when [ RAW File Type] is set
to [Uncompressed].
* Footnote [4]: The subject is not displayed in real-time on the monitor or viewfinder when shooting in
[Continuous Shooting: Hi+] mode
* Footnote [5]: The shooting speed during continuous shooting becomes slower when [e-Front Curtain Shut.]
is set to [Off] in [Continuous Shooting: Hi], [Continuous Shooting: Mid] or [Continuous Shooting: Lo] mode.
(Note that Sony does NOT include [Hi+] warning.)
* Footnote [6]: RAW images recorded with this camera have a resolution of 14 bits per pixel. However,
resolution is limited to 12 bits in the following shooting modes: [ Long Exposure NR], [BULB], [Cont. Shooting]
when [ RAW File Type] is set to [Compressed]



Aug 15, 2020 at 02:58 AM
mkotar
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · MC-11 update v 1.29 and Canon 500 IS II; preliminary experience - UPDATED


Thx for detailed answer.

I am aware od fps limit when using adapter. What i need to figure out is if AF locks on subject with this adapter and such long tele lens.

I dont mine 8fps i compressed raw when shooting but i want to be sure that AF will find and Lock subject when using central zone or will let me follow f.e. BIF (No freeze or super long blackout )



Aug 15, 2020 at 04:34 AM
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