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Archive 2020 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

csebasti
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

RottenTheCat wrote:
Thanks Csebasti...

In some of those cases - girl on motorbike (by the way GREAT classic Honda there... nice!)
The one with the Christmas tree... I think there's a situation where the error, which is great, may be your fault. Not knocking ya! Just saying maybe work on things. The camera will want to focus on whatever is closest, and the spots in the VF are not 100 percent exact.

About "not needing AF micro adjustment" after service. Maybe yes, maybe no. That is, there is a tolerance for each. There could be very slight overlapping tolerances. I would not be annoyed by...Show more →

That Trail 90 is my father-in-law's. He bought it new long ago. It sits in the garage now and he takes the grandkids for rides up and down the driveway. They love it.

I agree the Christmas shot is a poor focus point location, and I should not use that as an example.I believe that is the only case I've had since servicing the camera that was that far out. So maybe I don't have a significant out of focus issue any more.

I guess I'm hesitant on the MFA because I'm seeing both front and back focus, and feel like in some cases it's farther out than MFA will handle. But maybe I should try playing with it again. I did the dot tube method in the past, but might consider just dropping a little cash on Riekan Focal for ease of use and consistency.

Jan 19, 2020 at 06:32 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

RottenTheCat wrote:
Completely possible to have wide/tele discrepancies, which is why the 5DIV has settings for each. And the latest examples are better candidates for evaluation. Still, you might try something a bit more controlled.

Looking back at my records for when I did dot tube, I had the 24-105 set at -1 at the 24mm end and -2 at the 105mm end. But, that was before service, and I guess it could be different now since they said it was out of wack and electrically and mechanically adjusted it.

Jan 19, 2020 at 06:35 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

Canon won't adjust the lens to the body, they will adjust the lens to their standards on a bench, and then the body separately, and they won't be exact. They will be adjusted to be in their factory tolerances allowed for all bodies and lenses.

This means that again, your body and lens together can be off and needs to be AFMA'd.

They may adjust the two together, if you sent them together and requested that they test and adjust the two together like we had to in the past. But I am pretty sure you have to make that request in your packaging.

Jan 19, 2020 at 07:15 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

Zenon Char wrote:

I would not use that Christmas tree as an example. It just missed the focus. What is your 1st priority AF set too?

Oops, I forgot to respond to the 1st priority AF question.

I assume you are asking about the "AI Servo 1st image priority" setting. It is currently set to "equal". But this would only affect images shot in AI servo focus, not single shot. I do use AI servo (back button focus) when my taking pictures of my kids running around.

Jan 19, 2020 at 07:28 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

TeamSpeed wrote:
Canon won't adjust the lens to the body, they will adjust the lens to their standards on a bench, and then the body separately, and they won't be exact. They will be adjusted to be in their factory tolerances allowed for all bodies and lenses.

This means that again, your body and lens together can be off and needs to be AFMA'd.

They may adjust the two together, if you sent them together and requested that they test and adjust the two together like we had to in the past. But I am pretty sure you have to make that request in...Show more →

I did request that they be tested together. Though looking back at what I wrote, I did not specifically ask that they be adjusted together. And they did not specifically say they adjusted them together. Hmm... I had just assumed they would have been adjusted together. But I guess I shouldn't assume.

Jan 19, 2020 at 07:29 PM

Andrew J
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

After sending a body or lens anywhere re-do AFMA. A small trip through any carrier can "tune up" your equipment.

Jan 19, 2020 at 07:38 PM

NonDecaf
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

Set it up on a sturdy tripod and shoot a high-contrast subject (e.g. newspaper on a wall) with a delayed shutter. Do you still see the problem?

Jan 19, 2020 at 08:13 PM

Ziffl3
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

so just for fun.....
can you take a picture with spot AF? place the AF in center.
lens to 105mm and f4.
take a picture during the day.
shoot at boys nose.
AF mode to one shot.
have the boy standing. you frame the boy from waist up. leave about a full heads length of space about his head.

also, be mindful to feel the shutter being pressed.

Then do the same shot but with live view. this time touch the screen where you want the camera to focus.

Jan 19, 2020 at 10:51 PM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

TeamSpeed wrote:
Canon won't adjust the lens to the body, they will adjust the lens to their standards on a bench, and then the body separately, and they won't be exact. They will be adjusted to be in their factory tolerances allowed for all bodies and lenses.

This means that again, your body and lens together can be off and needs to be AFMA'd.

They may adjust the two together, if you sent them together and requested that they test and adjust the two together like we had to in the past. But I am pretty sure you have to make that request in...Show more →

I have read they will adjust them together. If you request it. If adjusted to separately and correctly it would need very little MFA.

Jan 20, 2020 at 07:33 AM

dansmail26
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

Thanks, this thread was helpful for me. That LR plugin showed the camera was focusing using 'af point expansion', so when focusing on a small bird it was factoring in 4 points off in the distance... Handy tool!

Jan 20, 2020 at 08:50 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

When using expansion modes the centre point is still the primary. It will use the outer points to assist the centre point.

An interesting test. Put the camera in One Shot and expansion mode. Shoot a wall that has no details and try to AF. Sometimes the centre point picks up AF and sometimes an outer point picks it up. If an outer point picks it up it will light up first followed by the centre point. This is consistent and repeatable. You can see this viewing on the LCD or in DPP.

Canon says AI Servo works exactly like One Shot however it does not show any outer points. Not sure why Canon chose to do that. Also too bad Canon broke links to hundreds of valuable blogs and articles because I had one where Rudy Winston said that.

That is where it can be challenging to determine what happened. While in AI Servo the centre point has zero contrast but something 10 ft behind does then it will may AF on the object behind but you will only see the centre point illuminated.

Jan 20, 2020 at 09:24 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

The LR plugin I was using shows which are selected. Here's an example of a shot with 9 points selected, the camera used the center point. The info at the right tells what focus mode was selected: AF Point Expansion (8 point). All the previous examples had either spot or single point selected.

http://bc-sebastian.com/forum/focus/19-28654.jpg

In AI servo it will show which expansion points are active but it won't show if one or others were used. Only the centre point will show.

Jan 20, 2020 at 09:27 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

I did a series of tests using expansion mode in AI Servo. Camera was on a tripod and I used two match boxes that had a lot of contrast for consistency.

1 - Defocused

2 - All points on front right right target. Focused on front target.

3 - Moved centre point onto back target and kept right assist point on the front. I could hold it there all day and it would maintain focus on the front target.

4 – Moved all points off front target. System refocused on the back target. TS -2 had a delay. TS +2 was instant.

5 - Defocused and put the centre point on the back target and right assist on the front. System focused using the centre point. With good contrast it worked as advertised.

I did not do this this test with good contrast vs bad contrast targets but I seen examples. One was a soccer game. The centre point and 3 other outer points where on black shorts. The right assist point was on the crowd behind that had contrast so it focused on them.

Jan 20, 2020 at 09:38 AM

tcphoto
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

The 24-105 is infamously bad and I suspect that shooting wide open simply amplified the issue. Even if a photographer uses great technique but allows the camera to focus automatically with a less then stellar lens, the result may not be great. Have you looked at the reviews for the lens?

Jan 20, 2020 at 10:07 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

it is not the top lens but I shot with it for 6 years. I just didn't like it at 24mm on a FF

Jan 20, 2020 at 10:45 AM

csebasti
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

Some good suggestions, comments, and replies. Thanks all. You guys have convinced me to play with it a little more and do some tests as suggested by some of you and report back. Unfortunately I likely won't be able to till Friday. Hopefully sooner though as I don't want this to drag out. I'm off to Maui mid February, and want to be sure I'm satisfied with my gear before that.

Jan 21, 2020 at 01:01 AM

Risto40
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

My 5D IV seem to have similar focusing issue when using back button focus which is linked to AI Servo (I've tried AI focus too, similar poor results). Even for non-moving objects it misses focus more than 50% of the time. So I always make multiple shots just to get some in focus. But singe-shot AF is almost always in focus.

Jan 27, 2020 at 05:27 AM

Ferrophot
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

tcphoto wrote:
The 24-105 is infamously bad and I suspect that shooting wide open simply amplified the issue. Even if a photographer uses great technique but allows the camera to focus automatically with a less then stellar lens, the result may not be great. Have you looked at the reviews for the lens?

This has not been my experience. My 24-105 L is sharp at 100% at all focal lengths. I find it is a great versatile lens for those who shoot mostly in the 24-105mm range. Yes, if you only need to go to 70mm there is a better alternative but that doesn't help much between 70 and 105.

Jan 27, 2020 at 09:15 AM

terencepatrick
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

Back when I had a pair of 5D4 bodies I experienced similar missed focused shots, even after a trip to CPS trying to figure out the problem. I was using the 24-70 2.8L II and 70-200 2.8L III lenses at the time. I wasn't seeing the problem on a rental 5D3, which frustrated the heck out of me, because that's what I had upgraded from in the first place. I was shooting stills on a TV show and so I ended up selling my Canons and bought a pair of Sony A9 bodies and the AF is miraculous compared to the 5D4, especially EYE AF and subject tracking. Ergonomics are awful on the Sonys, but performance is a major step up.

Jan 28, 2020 at 05:46 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 5D IV Autofocus issues

Never had an AF issue with my 5D4 across several seasons of sports, strange that a few of you are having issues. I did spend time on tweaking one of the AF cases to fit the situation at hand though, about 1, maybe 2 games.

Jan 28, 2020 at 07:50 PM

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