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Archive 2020 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

  
 
Gust
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


arbitrage wrote:
That was my thought also. But he does mention near the end that he usually doesn't use the 1.4TC and yet he did for all the shots he shared. I think he would have been much better to shoot the bare 400mm lens. Of course shots way down the field would suffer some but still....


agree and..
Sharpness? screenshots of photo Mecanic. please show the real photo's instead!
I'm not so impressed about his work. this shots with 1/2000?
He isn't the man to show what this camera can, I suppose!



Jan 24, 2020 at 09:50 AM
Milan Hutera
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


I'm at roughly 10th minute of PRM video.

- already he burned through approx 4000(!!!) shots. He started at 5000 something, right now he's at 9200.
- he's quite obsessed with shooting vertically.
- I meant to say his framing is terrible, but then I realized he doesn't shoot 200-400 but a 400 prime, so that's understandable to some degree.
- not showing a 100% crop (so far) is a no no for me.



Jan 24, 2020 at 10:21 AM
Dragonfire
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


arbitrage wrote:
Yes, if you are out shooting Pterodactyls then his experience should be relevant to bird photography


I have been asked to return to shoot Fordham football and with the 1DXIII and 400L IS III I just might.




Jan 24, 2020 at 10:24 AM
Pius Sullivan
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


I wonder if the those ball players were running through tall grass and the jersey's were the same color as the grass, do you think the auto-focus would track the subject with ease?
Example: SEO or a Northern harrier flying just above the the tall grass and then decides to bank hard right or left or dive into the grass.

Situations like that is what I need to test...

Pius



Jan 24, 2020 at 10:25 AM
therealthings
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Milan Hutera wrote:
- not showing a 100% crop (so far) is a no no for me.


i just thought the same... i mean, why?



Jan 24, 2020 at 10:38 AM
Milan Hutera
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


therealthings wrote:
i just thought the same... i mean, why?


He shows a 100% crop or two towards the end, but it doesn't look sharpened to me. He shoots for the agency though, so he probably didn't have the time to do extensive processing on those (not to mention they have those terrible AP colors I'm seeing a lot in our media, who use them...).



Jan 24, 2020 at 10:43 AM
therealthings
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Milan Hutera wrote:
He shows a 100% crop or two towards the end, but it doesn't look sharpened to me. He shoots for the agency though, so he probably didn't have the time to do extensive processing on those (not to mention they have those terrible AP colors I'm seeing a lot in our media, who use them...).


The first thing i would do when examining the AF of a new body is watch it 1:1 to see if the DOF plane is correct and consistent. It's not that he's dealing with huge 50mp files. Switching between 1:1 and fit to screen goes so quick.



Jan 24, 2020 at 10:51 AM
arbitrage
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Pius Sullivan wrote:
I wonder if the those ball players were running through tall grass and the jersey's were the same color as the grass, do you think the auto-focus would track the subject with ease?
Example: SEO or a Northern harrier flying just above the the tall grass and then decides to bank hard right or left or dive into the grass.

Situations like that is what I need to test...

Pius


I have a good feeling they have built in enough general subject/movement AI (not actual owl data😉 )that they will have solved that issue where the 1DXII.

Just reading the white paper seems to imply that AF was their main concern with this camera. It looks like they really developed something new underlying the familiar AF mode overlays including the new type of AF sensor on top of the AI.

Are we planning a SEO trip for Valentine’s Day after the camera ships on the 13th😜



Jan 24, 2020 at 03:43 PM
j.brevard
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


He’s shooting for ap images which sells a lot of stuff commercially for the nfl. It could be a specific client wanting verticals. But 99% of commercial request get credentialed under ap images. I’ve shot beside him a good bit and normally he uses a 200-400


Jan 24, 2020 at 04:09 PM
timgangloff
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Milan Hutera wrote:
He shows a 100% crop or two towards the end, but it doesn't look sharpened to me. He shoots for the agency though, so he probably didn't have the time to do extensive processing on those (not to mention they have those terrible AP colors I'm seeing a lot in our media, who use them...).


If he was shooting for an agency, then he probably would have been shooting jpegs, ingesting those, flagging the keepers and captioning and uploading. Really not a lot of time for other processing. And these look soft. Maybe it's the web, but these don't look sharp. I know the 1dx2 is super sharp and I'm sure the 1dx3 will be too, but these photos certainly don't sell that story. My 1dx2 images didn't look that soft in PM.

And if it was a review, then why not take some time, sharpen them (if he shot them raw), and present the final product. As it is, these don't do Canon any favors other than having a big name associated with the camera.

Just a big yuck.




Jan 24, 2020 at 06:59 PM
RobAmy
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?




If he was shooting for an agency, then he probably would have been shooting jpegs, ingesting those, flagging the keepers and captioning and uploading. Really not a lot of time for other processing. And these look soft. Maybe it's the web, but these don't look sharp. I know the 1dx2 is super sharp and I'm sure the 1dx3 will be too, but these photos certainly don't sell that story. My 1dx2 images didn't look that soft in PM.

And if it was a review, then why not take some time, sharpen them (if he shot them raw), and present the final
...Show more

I think the over all video looks soft. So I would not judge sharpness off the screen images. Look at a few of the actual camera images/closeups, they even look soft. I believe this was more from the camera, lens or grading. Do we know if this is still a pre production model? I assume it is fully functional being so close to the release but not sure. I actually thought is was a better video vs another person saying it is not a cinema camera and they are not buying it . At least it shows some of the AF abilities with having the 1.4x attached.



Jan 24, 2020 at 07:30 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


I don't use videos from others about a new camera to determine IQ of a camera, I use actual files from the camera to decide this.


Jan 24, 2020 at 07:56 PM
adamx12m
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Looking at some of the sequences closely I didn't think the zone AF was tracking as accurately as he indicates. Just like the 1dx2 framing is IMO considerably important for AF accuracy when tracking. It just may be that zone AF is not that applicable for football.


Jan 24, 2020 at 09:12 PM
Milan Hutera
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


timgangloff wrote:
If he was shooting for an agency, then he probably would have been shooting jpegs, ingesting those, flagging the keepers and captioning and uploading. Really not a lot of time for other processing. And these look soft. Maybe it's the web, but these don't look sharp. I know the 1dx2 is super sharp and I'm sure the 1dx3 will be too, but these photos certainly don't sell that story. My 1dx2 images didn't look that soft in PM.

And if it was a review, then why not take some time, sharpen them (if he shot them raw), and present the
...Show more

Yes, but he also mentions that he is strictly not on a deadline because "deadline guys have to capture touchdown" (or something in this regard). I have never used Photo Mechanic, but I suspect you can set up presets that you can apply quickly.



Jan 25, 2020 at 02:35 AM
timgangloff
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Milan Hutera wrote:
Yes, but he also mentions that he is strictly not on a deadline because "deadline guys have to capture touchdown" (or something in this regard). I have never used Photo Mechanic, but I suspect you can set up presets that you can apply quickly.


I'm not a Photo Mechanic expert, but I don't think you can convert raw images or sharpen with presets, etc. It's for culling, captioning, transmitting, ingesting and a few other things, but I don't think it allows you to do much with or anything with raw images. And any editing of jpegs is minor, like cropping, etc. Most guys I know use Photoshop or Lightroom in conjunction with Photo Mechanic for any images requiring additional editing. So, I'm not really sure what was going on in the video, especially if he was not on a deadline and had time to work a few of the better images into something more presentable.

I think the 1dx 3 will be just fine. Just the video doesn't do it any favors. In fact, although I shoot Sony now, this will be the first major Canon launch I will miss in about 15 years and I kind of miss not getting one.



Jan 25, 2020 at 02:32 PM
robinlee
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Had a play with the 1Dx3 this morning, LiveView 20 fps no blackout which is nice. AF is okay it's like 60% capability of the Sony A9. When half-press or back focus button AF pressed, you cannot change the focus subject, you have to let go and then AF again. To enable 20fps you'll have to enable in the menu (somewhere). The viewfinder AF feels like 1Dx2 and I have a feeling about background tree happy AF again.

Feels a bit lighter than 1Dx2.

Overall apart from the LiveView AF, I wasn't really feeling like a wow camera to me. It's just like 1Dx2 on 1/2 viagra.

You'll see folks using DSLR like mirrorless camera just like Rambo meme



Jan 25, 2020 at 04:37 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


Yup only 60% of the A9 AF... I am so sure you had time to go through the settings and really get it set up?


Jan 25, 2020 at 06:35 PM
arbitrage
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


robinlee wrote:
Had a play with the 1Dx3 this morning, LiveView 20 fps no blackout which is nice. AF is okay it's like 60% capability of the Sony A9. When half-press or back focus button AF pressed, you cannot change the focus subject, you have to let go and then AF again. To enable 20fps you'll have to enable in the menu (somewhere). The viewfinder AF feels like 1Dx2 and I have a feeling about background tree happy AF again.

Feels a bit lighter than 1Dx2.

Overall apart from the LiveView AF, I wasn't really feeling like a wow camera to me. It's
...Show more

Does LV at 20FPS show a live feed or is the no blackout achieved like most other MILCs (other than A9) via showing the previous frame in the EVF? You would only be able to tell if you actively panned around, preferably at a moving subject. I know my Z50 at max FPS in e-shutter has no blackout but it is terrible to try and pan with something as it is not a live feed.



Jan 25, 2020 at 06:47 PM
adamx12m
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


RobAmy wrote:
Some decent stuff in this video



I know the video is a bit of a stretch to determine the true accuracy of AF and image quality, so nothing here is intended to downplay this body at all but this is how I read into it.

At 3:50 it's only two frames a subject steps in front, nothing impressive there. 1dx2 + case 2. Case 4 can get a little jumpy sometimes switching subjects unintended.

At 4:10 hands in front of face, that's supposed be impressive? Canon AF guide would have said use the single point AF on the eye like the race car driver.

At 4:56 #6687 in focus on #19, #6688 #6689 in focus on #31 helmet, until #6693/94 where #19 is back in focus, #6705 looks sharper towards on the back of #26 favoring the closer subject. I don't see from this sequence how this is game changing.

At 7:10 shooting f3.5 probably from at least 50 yards away, that's about 9' of DOF so I'm not sure why this thought to be significant.

At 7:31 is confusing where initial AF took place during tracking from #8944, sounds like he used the default 'auto' case setting for everything.

At 8:16 #25 helmet is more in focus than #19 jersey, at #9255 #69 is front subject in focus, #9258 everything a bit soft, #9260 jersey in focus on #19. The rest of the following frames look ok.

All of this so far still mimics current results with the 1dx2. If you keep the subject framed on the primary AF points it will focus and track great, vary off just slightly and you'll find a few frame OOF shots. I've had sequences using center + 4 af points tracking a subject and if I failed panning accurately to keep those AF points on the subject it could take 2-4 frames to recover. When you think about tracking at high FPS the sensitivity of the AF is pretty insane to acquire, back/front focus, and acquire again in just tenths of second is amazing. Plenty of times I find my AF accuracy is user error. Canon removing Case 5 and 6 is also interesting, although he says it was rarely used for me they were my two custom cases I've tweaked.

I'm bit a perplexed by the video results given with at least 10000+ shots over 2 NFL games. More AF points look like a huge boost to zone AF tracking but for some sports it may not always be the best choice. Obviously Peter is not going to say anything negative about Canon, but saying "game changer" is not how I felt after watching. I know this a better body than the 1dx2 which is great, but it's not like Canon could not have tweaked the firmware in the past 4 years. I still think it's a tough sell for existing 1dx2 users minus the video features, but I guess we'll see how 2020 plays out.



Jan 25, 2020 at 07:08 PM
RobAmy
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?


adamx12m wrote:
I know the video is a bit of a stretch to determine the true accuracy of AF and image quality, so nothing here is intended to downplay this body at all but this is how I read into it.

At 3:50 it's only two frames a subject steps in front, nothing impressive there. 1dx2 + case 2. Case 4 can get a little jumpy sometimes switching subjects unintended.

At 4:10 hands in front of face, that's supposed be impressive? Canon AF guide would have said use the single point AF on the eye like the race car driver.

At 4:56 #6687 in focus
...Show more

I have no issues with your findings/thoughts. I actually felt it was not bad, the video quality was awful and made some scenes tough to judge. I do not do sports so I do not have a good frame of reference like some of you may have. I have one on preorder and my wife still has a 1dx II, so I will be able to see first hand what actual improvements there may be. There is a lot of reviews/talk saying that this is no better than the 1dx II in some areas. Reading the white paper I just do not see it like that. I think the video side is a no brainer, for stills hopefully some nice improvements. I am not one just to say the camera is great because I bought it, I will bring out the negatives too. Hopefully we are getting closer to some good honest reviews.



Jan 25, 2020 at 07:39 PM
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