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Archive 2020 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

KINGOFKNGS
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

He said he was going to be in Baltimore “this Saturday.” Baltimore lost so presumably that was three days ago. Hopefully he updates in the next day or two.

arbitrage wrote:
He hasn't shot with it yet. He is shooting NFL this weekend and says he will do a second video after he shoots it.

Jan 14, 2020 at 07:53 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

The same Peter Miller that said the EOS R could be used for sports, and posted like 3 pictures that he took with it, and never talks about it again. So I take his videos, and motives, with a grain of salt.

Jan 14, 2020 at 08:40 PM

rbeasley
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

TeamSpeed wrote:
The same Peter Miller that said the EOS R could be used for sports, and posted like 3 pictures that he took with it, and never talks about it again. So I take his videos, and motives, with a grain of salt.

I had to go watch the video after your comment. He was somewhat critical of the size and the EVF blackout. He said the autofocus works well, and 5fps was sugar coated a bit. He mentioned he shot a few sequences and was overall pleased with the results other than losing track of players due to the blackout. I didn't hear anything that seemed out of line. He seemed to like the RF24-105 and RF 50 1.2. He didn't indicate he would be putting his career on the line for the R however. What did you expect him to say?

Jan 14, 2020 at 09:45 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

Nobody is shooting NFL or NBA games with an R, that is under contract, not ever. There was no need for those 2 videos unless influenced by someone, like a manufacturer. Many of us remember the exact timing of these videos in relation to the EOS R announcement and subsequent concerns about how useful it was going to be for action capture.

Jan 15, 2020 at 01:08 AM

rbeasley
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

TeamSpeed wrote:
Nobody is shooting NFL or NBA games with an R, that is under contract, not ever. There was no need for those 2 videos unless influenced by someone, like a manufacturer. Many of us remember the exact timing of these videos in relation to the EOS R announcement and subsequent concerns about how useful it was going to be for action capture.

I think that was his point. He doesn't have an issue with the auto focus, and 5fps is workable, but the blackout is a no go. I guess you were expecting him to say" get this piece of crap out of my sight"? I don't think that is Peter's style, and the R is a perfectly serviceable camera.

Jan 15, 2020 at 06:43 AM

LBJ2
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

Jan 15, 2020 at 07:17 AM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

rbeasley wrote:
I think that was his point. He doesn't have an issue with the auto focus, and 5fps is workable, but the blackout is a no go. I guess you were expecting him to say" get this piece of crap out of my sight"? I don't think that is Peter's style, and the R is a perfectly serviceable camera.

No, I think he is trying to portray the EOS R as capable for sports, then goes out and shoots an NFL game to show just a couple of keepers. The average person would have said "I tried the R, and I got a few keepers, but it just isn't designed for this kind of shooting".

He came off in both of his videos (there might have been a 3rd) as the EOS R is fine for sports. Somebody of his caliber or anybody that actually shoots professional sports that wasn't being supplied gear or prompting for the video would say that. Again timing of these were key to these perceptions as well.

People seem to use Peter Miller videos when it serves an argumentative point, but his videos are dry and without any real world use, I feel, most of them anyways, and rarely do people point to those videos for educational purposes. I am not saying anything about his photographic experience and results, but his videos are bland and many times lacking any real substance.

Edited on Jan 15, 2020 at 08:13 AM · View previous versions

Jan 15, 2020 at 07:34 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

A real review requires weeks or months of use with the final production camera in use.

Jan 15, 2020 at 07:39 AM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

Any review that is conducted even a month before units ship out to customers would have basically been done with a final production camera.

Units would have long since rolled off the assembly (person or machine), boxed up and made ready for shipping across the global space to make the release date, and they would not be able to update firmware, etc at that time.

I suspect Canon doesn't allow their ambassadors to show their videos of gear until Canon knows the camera is basically in its final state already. The videos and review would have been performed months prior however, edited, reviewed and approved by Canon, but I doubt the cameras that get into the consumer hands are really anything different.

From the time a person is given a few weeks with a camera, to feedback to Canon engineers, to their finding tweaks and firmware fixes, to getting that tested and ready for production assembly would take quite some time, and once a production cycle has started for shipping to vendors and customers, it is too late to pull back.

Jan 15, 2020 at 08:06 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

TeamSpeed wrote:
Any review that is conducted even a month before units ship out to customers would have basically been done with a final production camera.

But the camera is to be released in mid-February so if you want to review the camera as it is one month before general release, you would have to start the review process today. A proper review takes a long time (weeks+) as you'd have to use it in all kinds of shooting conditions and for a variety of subject matter. It takes a good bit of time to get an idea of how a camera performs in various conditions and how to optimize settings for getting the best results. I would say that by the Summer Olympics, there will be a general idea of how the camera performs. The camera as it is in beta testing could perform differently and so experiences gathered during that period are not necessarily valid and because the early testers privilege and relationship with the manufacturer, they might not be able to give a completely neutral evaluation. What they may have is inside information about how the camera was designed and how certain features are intended to be used (according to the manufacturer's intention), and of course that is something that if they can convey it to the reader, it's of value.

Jan 15, 2020 at 08:38 AM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

Sure, that makes sense, and DP Review has already done all that work, I can be certain as have a few other notable sites/sources. They just cannot be released until Canon gives the go-ahead, all part of the NDA they all would have signed.

Anything that says review right now is better coined "Preview", I suspect.

We are in agreement!

Jan 15, 2020 at 08:42 AM

rbeasley
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

TeamSpeed wrote:
No, I think he is trying to portray the EOS R as capable for sports, then goes out and shoots an NFL game to show just a couple of keepers. The average person would have said "I tried the R, and I got a few keepers, but it just isn't designed for this kind of shooting".

He came off in both of his videos (there might have been a 3rd) as the EOS R is fine for sports. Somebody of his caliber or anybody that actually shoots professional sports that wasn't being supplied gear or prompting for the video would...Show more →

I am not using him for argument. I don't own an R and haven't tried one yet. Your comment prompted me to watch his video. He advised you cannot track action due to blackout. He didn't say the camera sucks, but I took that to mean it is not a serious sports camera. Maybe I watched a different video. He doesn't strike me as the type of person to be inflammatory. That being said just about any camera you buy no matter the model or brand is much better than that what top sports photographers had 30 years ago. They managed, so the point is the R can be used for sports. That was the message I took. It certainly wasn't a detailed analysis.

I think we are pretty far off topic now.

Jan 15, 2020 at 08:51 AM

rbeasley
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

ilkka_nissila wrote:
But the camera is to be released in mid-February so if you want to review the camera as it is one month before general release, you would have to start the review process today. A proper review takes a long time (weeks+) as you'd have to use it in all kinds of shooting conditions and for a variety of subject matter. It takes a good bit of time to get an idea of how a camera performs in various conditions and how to optimize settings for getting the best results. I would say that by the Summer Olympics, there will...Show more →

I don't necessarily agree with this. If you give a 1dx or 1dx2 owner a 1dx3 camera to test out they will know quickly whether the camera is an improvement. It may take months to fully evaluate every feature in many circumstances, but in one day I will know if the autofocus is truly massively improved and whether the image quality it better. I will know in a few minutes if I am going to like the touch screen implementation and the new AFON button. The new buffer can be tested within a few minutes. If you have never used a 1D then that may be a different story. It would take me quite some time to know if an A9 was good for me. The 1dx3 I will know very quickly.

Jan 15, 2020 at 08:58 AM

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

rbeasley wrote:
I don't necessarily agree with this. If you give a 1dx or 1dx2 owner a 1dx3 camera to test out they will know quickly whether the camera is an improvement. It may take months to fully evaluate every feature in many circumstances, but in one day I will know if the autofocus is truly massively improved and whether the image quality it better. I will know in a few minutes if I am going to like the touch screen implementation and the new AFON button. The new buffer can be tested within a few minutes. If you have never used...Show more →

The issue here is though that it is opinion at this point, by one individual. You know for your uses whether the camera is better or not, however not all shoot the same things in the same conditions, etc so where things are better for you, they might be worse for someone else.

To really provide a "review" and not a "preview" or "my feelings" type of article or video, 1-2 days won't cut it. Others care a little about the opinion of the reviewer, depending on their reputation and how aligned they are with what they shoot, but count more on the actual bonafide data/image comparisons, etc considering that is where the rubber meets the road.

Like the DigitalRev videos, they were a bit entertaining, and provided some useful info, but they weren't reviews even though they were touted as such, and those did take days, if not weeks to produce before adding to Youtube. Fro videos are a bit further yet, with more info but also alot more opinion, while still being somewhat entertaining, and again, I suspect those take quite some time to put together.

Other reviews like Imaging Resource or DPReview are more detailed and objective, and take longer yet.

Jan 15, 2020 at 09:24 AM

rbeasley
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

TeamSpeed wrote:
The issue here is though that it is opinion at this point, by one individual. You know for your uses whether the camera is better or not, however not all shoot the same things in the same conditions, etc so where things are better for you, they might be worse for someone else.

To really provide a "review" and not a "preview" or "my feelings" type of article or video, 1-2 days won't cut it. Others care a little about the opinion of the reviewer, depending on their reputation and how aligned they are with what they shoot, but count...Show more →

The world is imperfect. I think buyers of 1d cameras can decide for themselves.

I watched the review by DP Review and I like the reviewer, but regarding the 1dx3 he criticized how the AF On button was too sensitive yet several minutes later he remarked how you can adjust the sensitivity. I didn't find that objective.

I am also not a fan of reviews from people who don't actually own and use the cameras they are reviewing. Regarding reviews I generally take each with a grain of salt and look for trends. For instance if 10 reviewers have the same complaint or praise then I tend to believe that may be true.

Jan 15, 2020 at 11:56 AM

Gust
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

I am also not a fan of reviews from people who don't actually own and use the cameras they are reviewing. Regarding reviews I generally take each with a grain of salt and look for trends. For instance if 10 reviewers have the same complaint or praise then I tend to believe that may be true.

Jan 15, 2020 at 01:24 PM

RobAmy
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

Jan 19, 2020 at 06:55 AM

arbitrage
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

I thought this vid was decent....in the brief glimpses you see of the LV system tracking it looks amazingly sticky....maybe the R is already like this but having not used one I'll let others chime in.

Jan 19, 2020 at 09:32 AM

RobAmy
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

arbitrage wrote:
I thought this vid was decent....in the brief glimpses you see of the LV system tracking it looks amazingly sticky....maybe the R is already like this but having not used one I'll let others chime in.

The R does stick well but is offset by the speed and slide show effect. Actually the 90d held well too in LV but had other issues for me which made it a no go. I think you are going to see a really nice gain in the AF department with this new version.

Jan 19, 2020 at 10:17 AM

arbitrage
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Why no 1DxIII "reviews" from Sports photographers?

Lan11 wrote:
Opinions voiced in these videos are useless for the WL. The camera AF performance and deep learning internal db supporting it is optimized for the face/head detection.

True. The head, face, eye stuff is not going to help us in wildlife and birds. What I hope though is there is also subject recognition after starting 61-point mode on a subject and that there is hopefully some programming to prioritize movement in the small and large zone modes. In the glimpses we see of it tracking a bike and skier it certainly isn't tracking a head, face or eye but the blue squares dance on the entire moving subject (understandably considering how small they were in the frame). That is what I'd hope it will do for a BIF.

I could imagine setting up a tripod, 1DXIII, 600III and shooting a subject like SEO in flight via the LV screen....an EVF would be better but it could work. I don't imagine shooting a 600III in the manner the photographer shot the bike and ski jumping handheld at arms length

I will await the reviews of Rob and Pius to know for sure

. However, if they take too long I will just have to do it myself....

Jan 19, 2020 at 10:52 AM

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