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Archive 2019 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?

  
 
johnctharp
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Zenon Char wrote:
It says it on page 143 of the manual. Runs continuously. Why would Canon do this? There are a few things I tolerate with the R but I just found something I don't like. I hope they change this with the pro release.


They'll probably provide options for the 'pro' release(s).

For the release behavior with the R, given that the release AF firmware wasn't that great at subject tracking and the camera itself comes it below the 5D line in terms of features and thus targets the 'pro' market less than the 'enthusiast' market, having IS on all the time seems like a reasonable stopgap. Their AF needs all the help it can get, and batteries are small and cheap.

I can't say whether Canon would consider providing an option to alter the release behavior with a firmware update, as while the AF algorithms and subject tracking have received significant upgrades from firmware after release, the hardware is still limited in terms of processing power and the sensor readout isn't going to get any faster.

Newer hardware with faster sensor readout speed and more processing power for subject tracking would likely be able to deal with camera shake better to the point that turning off IS won't result in a meaningful increase in focus misses, I think.



Dec 19, 2019 at 04:28 PM
lighthound
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


IS will run continuously on your DSLR's as well when in LV.
I thought I had read that it does this due to something about video mode but it has always seemed odd to me that they don't change this when in stills mode.

+1 @ the 15 sec shut-off suggestion. Easy fix for any battery drain concerns.



Dec 19, 2019 at 04:40 PM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


lighthound wrote:
IS will run continuously on your DSLR's as well when in LV.
I thought I had read that it does this due to something about video mode but it has always seemed odd to me that they don't change this when in stills mode.

+1 @ the 15 sec shut-off suggestion. Easy fix for any battery drain concerns.


Yes, odd it is, but it is also the least of my problems with the EOS-R. I just made 2 video's to send to Canon, one with properly working IS (by switching IS off/on on the lens I have a good chance of IS working properly for a while), and one with the IS shake. In the video's it is even worse than I realized: with proper IS I can hold the AF square over a small subject for 30 sec, but with the IS shake there is a pronounced "nudge" every 1,5 second or so, completely throwing the AF square of target, and in the video I can hear that the nudge is even accompanied by a sound coming from the IS unit.

So I am pretty much stranded with the EOS-R that drives my 400DOII IS unit crazy, and it is back to the 7DII. Last attempt at a solution will be trying out a different EOS-R next week, but I am not at all positive that there is much outlook for a solution, it is a brand new EOS-R and I am inclined now to believe that my particular 400DOII for some obscure reason is driven haywire by the EOS-R, while performing flawlessly on the 7DII and the Sony A7RII.
This may turn out a costly attempt at the R mount ..



Dec 19, 2019 at 05:20 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?




RobAmy wrote:
I just set mine to shut off in 15 secs. That shuts the IS off. A half press of the shutter turns it on fairly quickly.


I at one time used the ECO mode. I turned it on again.



Dec 19, 2019 at 11:40 PM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


To be fair to Canon, after the first strange reply, they got back to me, and are now researching this issue internally.


Dec 20, 2019 at 05:20 AM
stanj
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


I shot the R with the 400DO extensively in Antarctica and didn't even notice the IS was running, nor have I noticed any unusual battery wear. Then again I always had the 15s shut off... I find the startup to be annoyingly slow, but I find having the back LCD showing random things as I'm walking even more offensive. A setting to only run the EVF (a button to easily switch between them, that would be a great use of the otherwise pointless Touch Bar).


Dec 20, 2019 at 12:39 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


ChrisMak wrote:
To be fair to Canon, after the first strange reply, they got back to me, and are now researching this issue internally.


That is good news. Hopefully they change it. That answer was strange because it also effect RF lenses.



Dec 20, 2019 at 12:43 PM
tsangc
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?




lighthound wrote:
IS will run continuously on your DSLR's as well when in LV.


It doesn't in my 5D2. Only when the shutter is pressed half way. It shuts back off after a few seconds.


+1 @ the 15 sec shut-off suggestion. Easy fix for any battery drain concerns.


I use this too with my RP, but the stupid face sensor kicks in from my elbow or hip when over my shoulder turning it back on. I feel there's several little UI sensor tunings that Canon forgets unlike smartphone manufacturers. For example, they could disable the return from power save when the lens is pointed down, the way an iPhone lights up when the screen is lifted up. The touch bar on the R seems like a great idea but isn't implemented well from most user reports. So many little small things.



Dec 21, 2019 at 03:59 AM
lighthound
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


tsangc wrote:
It doesn't in my 5D2. Only when the shutter is pressed half way. It shuts back off after a few seconds.

I use this too with my RP, but the stupid face sensor kicks in from my elbow or hip when over my shoulder turning it back on. I feel there's several little UI sensor tunings that Canon forgets unlike smartphone manufacturers. For example, they could disable the return from power save when the lens is pointed down, the way an iPhone lights up when the screen is lifted up. The touch bar on the R seems like a great
...Show more

Hmmm, It must be just the more modern bodies then. Perhaps when video started to become a big thing. My old 70D even runs the IS continuously in LV as does my 6DII and 90D.
As I type this, now I'm wondering if being in Servo AF has something to do with this behavior. I'm always in Servo mode when I've turned on LV.

As for the annoying wake ups on your R, that would drive me crazy as well. Is there not a way to disable the touch screen &/or touch bar and the face detect thing?




Dec 22, 2019 at 09:08 PM
stalderm
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Hi, I read a lot in this forum, but until now haven't wrote a post. But I think this is important enough.

I had more or less the same experience (on october) with my EOS R (FW 1.4) with the 1.4x III teleconverter and the 400 DO II. The IS behaved really strangely, jumping around, fighting against me. I then pulled out the battery multiple times which helped for a short time. It was very frustrating, absolutely not normal and in my opinion there is definitely a problem. Probably only in combination with teleconverters.

I have to say, that I used the lens also with my 1DX II, with and without teleconverters where it worked flawlessly.

Right now I tried the EOS R (now with FW 1.6), 1.4x III and the 400 DO II and after turning on the camera there is a high chance that the IS is not working correctly. Either the image is bumping around at a interval of 1-2 seconds or is just not as stable as usual. Once there was even a strange clacking sound together with the bumping interval.
Immediately testing the same with the 1D X II and everything is as excepted.

I recorded some videos of the behavior and the correct function of the same lens with the 1D X II. I could provide a download link (send me a PM) for this information and you could probably reach out to canon with a second person with the same problem and the evidence, that the problem exists only with the EOS R.



Dec 23, 2019 at 05:39 AM
RobAmy
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Interesting that another one is doing it. I will be able to test another combo as I bought Amy an R for the Holiday. She has her own 400 DO II, mine has no issues with either 1.4 or 1.6 firmware. I picked another R too, the refurb price was to good to pass up but I can't test that until after Amy gets hers

So I will have 3 R's and 2 400mm DO's to test. I will report back with the findings.



Dec 23, 2019 at 05:58 AM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Thanks a LOT for posting your experience, it is 100% in line with mine, including the "clacking" sound that sometimes accompanies the jumping of the IS. I also recorded two video's, one with the IS working properly, and one with the jumping IS, and I can even hear the clacking sound of the IS unit in the video.
I thought I had stumbled into one of these incomprehensible defects that no one else has encountered, and it is a great relief to hear someone else with the same combo experiencing this annoying defect. I am visiting my camera store today, and try another EOS-R. If it is not 100% stable on the lens IS, I will first try to get my camera store to take back the EOS-R, otherwise I will try to get a refund from Canon. Did you try another EOS-R?

stalderm wrote:
Hi, I read a lot in this forum, but until now haven't wrote a post. But I think this is important enough.

I had more or less the same experience (on october) with my EOS R (FW 1.4) with the 1.4x III teleconverter and the 400 DO II. The IS behaved really strangely, jumping around, fighting against me. I then pulled out the battery multiple times which helped for a short time. It was very frustrating, absolutely not normal and in my opinion there is definitely a problem. Probably only in combination with teleconverters.

I have to say, that I used the
...Show more



Dec 23, 2019 at 07:52 AM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Rob,
I seem to have stumbled into nasty territory with this. It practically makes the combo useless, unless you accept fulltime fiddling with the IS on/off button all the time, which is out of the question for me.
If this is not resolved, I see a dead end nearing for me with Canon gear unfortunately. The 7DII is ok. but no 7DIII in sight, and the "R" road cut off...

RobAmy wrote:
Interesting that another one is doing it. I will be able to test another combo as I bought Amy an R for the Holiday. She has her own 400 DO II, mine has no issues with either 1.4 or 1.6 firmware. I picked another R too, the refurb price was to good to pass up but I can't test that until after Amy gets hers

So I will have 3 R's and 2 400mm DO's to test. I will report back with the findings.




Dec 23, 2019 at 07:57 AM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


An update on this:
I returned the EOS-R after a talk with the manager of my camera store. He felt it would more likely be a firmware issue than a hardware issue, based on his experiences with IS problems of other mirrorless brands, and which makes sense in the context of what stalderm posted about his EOS-R working perfectly with other lenses. Why are not all users with this combo affected? I have no idea, perhaps production date of the 400DOII or even the EOS-R come into play, or other variables.

I am glad stalderm shared his findings with the EOS-R+400DOII combo, which are even more inexplicable than mine, given that his EOS-R works perfectly with other lenses, but I think it is clear now, that the 100% maintaining of functionality of EF lenses on the EOS-R with adapter, that Canon claims on their website, is not entirely trustworthy in all cases.



Dec 23, 2019 at 10:06 AM
stalderm
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Chris, glad that you was able to return the camera. As long as it's not clear whether it's a firmware or hardware problem and whether it will be fixed, this makes a lot of sense for you.
Because I have more than 1000 images with the 1DX II and the 400 DO II with one of the teleconverters in my lightroom catalog I also think it probably more a firmware problem (I would have noticed if there would have been a problem).

I checked my lightroom catalog and I have around 500 pictures with my EOS R with the 70-300L and the 100-400 II (1/3 of it with the 1.4x). So if there would be a problem with these combination, I would also have noticed I guessed.

Furthermore I also made a quick test with the 300 2.8 IS II and the 500 4.0 II lenses and the 1.4x III converter with my EOS R and I think these combinations works fine (turn of, check IS through viewfinder, turn off).

Hopefully there will be a firmware update once.

Do you have noticed the problem without a teleconverter?



Dec 23, 2019 at 10:39 AM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


I just tried my 400 DO II and 2X and it is not jumping around in one shot or AI servo. FW 1.6.


Dec 23, 2019 at 11:46 AM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


stalderm wrote:
Chris, glad that you was able to return the camera. As long as it's not clear whether it's a firmware or hardware problem and whether it will be fixed, this makes a lot of sense for you.
Because I have more than 1000 images with the 1DX II and the 400 DO II with one of the teleconverters in my lightroom catalog I also think it probably more a firmware problem (I would have noticed if there would have been a problem).

I checked my lightroom catalog and I have around 500 pictures with my EOS R with the 70-300L
...Show more

Yes, personally I also had the problem with the bare lens. I had two issues: the rather violent horizontal jump accompanied by the clicking sound at around 1,5 sec. interval, or the loose wandering and jumping of the AF square around the central AF point without accompanying sound.
With the 2.0 extender on, I got both scenarios. With the bare lens I have only noticed the second scenario. But certainly the IS did not work reliably with the bare lens in my case.



Dec 23, 2019 at 12:22 PM
ChrisMak
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Zenon Char wrote:
I just tried my 400 DO II and 2X and it is not jumping around in one shot or AI servo. FW 1.6.


This is one of these issues that can cause a lot of conflicting confusion. Do notice, that I did get correct IS when switching the IS button off/on on the lens with the camera active. But turning off the camera would re-initiate the IS jumping around.
For me all that counts, is that I know after two weeks, that the issue is not going to disappear magically. I also tried intensively to reproduce the issue with either my 7DII or my Sony A7RII, also in live view mode, and I could not once, not even a faint glimpse of the jumping IS. That says the issue is not a lens defect, but lies with the way in which the camera drives the lens.



Dec 23, 2019 at 12:27 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


Good to rule out the lens. That is less fun to deal with shipping wise, etc. I guess you decided not to try another R. To whom at Canon did you mention about about the IS running continuously?


Dec 23, 2019 at 01:31 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · EOS-R with 400mm f4DOII. Compromised IS functionality?


ChrisMak wrote:
I have no idea, perhaps production date of the 400DOII or even the EOS-R come into play, or other variables.


Reading through the thread, this is what came to mind - i.e. a 'silent' change in the product by Canon that normally shouldn't affect performance. Maybe you guys could coordinate serial numbers and purchase dates?



Dec 23, 2019 at 01:47 PM
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