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Archive 2019 · M43 purchase advice

  
 
WanderNWonder
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · M43 purchase advice


A big hello to all!

I'm new to M43 and the FM forums. I'm looking for purchasing advice. To start with some background,

1) I don't own an M43 body yet, I want to get one .. G9 or EM1.2 seem to be the options for my requirements (flowers, architecture, landscapes). I have been using Canon APSC and FF bodies with Canon lenses for the last 12 years.

2) With M43, I want to use native lenses to take advantage of the Dual / Sync IS

3) Usually I photograph flowers, landscapes, architecture when traveling. Sometimes I'm photographing from a boat or a ship, or I want to zoom into the top of a tall structure so having a good amount of reach is always desirable.
To that end, my choice of body will be decided by the lenses I get.
For the tele zoom, I'm debating between getting the PL100-400 (paired with G9) vs waiting for the Olympus 100-400 (paired with EM1.2).
The Oly Pro 150-400 is surely out of my reach.

4) I plan to continue using my Canon kit for wildlife

5) I am also interested in getting a native wide angle lenses for the body that I buy.

Some of the things I've learnt while reading through the forum are:
1. The EM1.2 has phase detection, while the G9 doesn't. The G9 is said to have a "focus defocus wobble" as it uses contrast detection. Is the focusing experience on the EM1.2 better than that on the G9? I don't expect to use the kit for wild life, but with flowers there's always some breeze which requires the use of continuous focus.

2. The PL 100-400 is rumored to have some quality control issues at the long end; as there's no Oly 100-400 to compare, I'm not yet willing to take that as a negative until the Oly 100-400 is out.

3. the PL 100-400 starts at f4 on the wide end while the Oly version will start at f5 - this would only matter when shooting plants out doors in the early morning or late evening hours. But is the PL 100-400 the right lens for that? I don't know.

4. On the EM1.2 the button reconfiguration is said to be less flexible than the G9?

The questions on my mind are,

1. For Canon APSC or FF cameras, it is always recommended to use some support when the effective focal length crosses 400-500mm. With the 100-400, (or with the 50-200 + 1.4) can the G9 or EM1.4 be used hand held at the long end?

2. Any feedback on whether I should prefer the PL 100-400, or wait for the Oly 100-400 ? Or go with the PL 50-200 + 1.4x or 2x TC?

Thanks in advance,
Arun



Dec 11, 2019 at 06:43 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · M43 purchase advice


If you are not shooting wildlife then I don't really see the necessity of a 100-400mm, a 40-150mm or 50-200mm is quite sufficient (and better performance). You can always add the excellent 1.4 or 2 X converters. I think it is really hard to decide which system to go for, IMO you need to handle the two bodies in question. I went Olympus because I was familiar with the OM system, it had phase detect (before the G9 came out), and I coveted the 40-150mm f2.8 lens. I also was impressed with the build quality. However both systems are really good and offer plenty of alternative lens choices. There's no right answer here, you really just have to handle the bodies and lenses and see which you prefer. I think having old style aperture rings on some (and only some) PL lenses is weird myself. Some people say the Panasonic are more geared for video and Oly for stills. There is a grain of truth in this. With respect to IBIS it is a great thing, but you always need good technique for sharp pics with ultra teles, so I wouldn't expect routine miracles with a 100-400mm. No idea about the button issue. The menus on both cameras are mind boggling. Once you get used to it though it's not such a big deal. The new EM5 is worth considering too as it is almost an E1MkII and smaller and lighter and cheaper.


Dec 11, 2019 at 09:51 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · M43 purchase advice


WanderNWonder wrote:
Any feedback on whether I should prefer the PL 100-400, or wait for the Oly 100-400 ? Or go with the PL 50-200 + 1.4x or 2x TC?


Can't speak to the G9. If I were you, I would buy a used E-M1.2 and used P/L 100-400 from the FM Buy & Sell Forum. A reputable seller would confirm with you if the 100-400 was a sharp copy at 400mm. Once you have become familiar with that combo, you could then purchase a wide-angle and macro.

Putting TC's on a lower focal-length range zoom is not the best option, and it is always a pain putting them on and taking them off.

As for waiting for the Oly 100-400, nobody has a clue how long of a wait that will be.

Have a look at images on this thread that I started 3 years ago when I began with an adapter and Canon 100-400:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1465619

Tony




Dec 11, 2019 at 12:50 PM
PV Hiker
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · M43 purchase advice


I agree with Robin and Tony suggestions... Buy used or spend some time at a camera store to try them over and ask questions. Check out your local camera club , if you have one, and ask members if they are using what you want and spend some time with them.

I say don't wait for Oly to push out a 100-400 when you could be using something now and enjoying life.

Anytime you are capturing an image good steady technique is important and use what ever is necessary to get it.

Welcome to the forum....

I can't push you on what to buy, you will come to the conclusion for yourself evaluating more advice and experiences here from others that use what you are wanting. Careful you will get analysis paralysis with too much information



Dec 11, 2019 at 07:56 PM
WanderNWonder
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · M43 purchase advice


A ton of thanks to Robin, Tony and Patrick for the help and advice!

I was thinking of the 100-400 because I've used an 18-200 on an APSC and that was still a bit short on the reach. This image from Tony illustrates an example of what I envision using the 100-400 for landscapes from a distance: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1465619/0#13976768

I will also have to give some thought to the M5 Mk3. I watched a video by Peter Forsgård

comparing the two. Not many differences there, so it will boil down to handling.

The reason I'm researching this on forums is that I cannot find any dealer with a demo unit in my city (in India). FM Buy/Sell isn't available

Another factor is that these bodies and lenses are not available for rental here.
Lastly, there's no option to return within 14 days. You buy it, you keep it. The resale market is abysmally bad (for sellers).

So effectively, I will be forced to decide a body + lens based on online research and feedback, go to the dealer, then buy it, then try it after unsealing the boxes.

Tony, thanks for the link to the sample images thread, lots of great stuff there.

It seems like I'm caught in a situation where the PL100-400 is the best lens for my zoom needs, and the EM1.2/EM5.3 fit my criteria for flutter-free Auto-focus. Terry Lane (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1cokROiF2TkANNdTiNAv1Q) is using the same combo.

I have been enticed a lot by the G9. Gerald Undone did a great job clearing some of the FUD about contrast detection here and in fact says its more accurate for still subjects: https://petapixel.com/2018/10/16/camera-autofocus-systems-explained-phase-contrast-hybrid-dfd/

There seems to be very little to differentiate between the G9 and the EM1.2 - small things that are subjective from user to user -- that's indeed a good thing for buyers, to have the choice.

The tie-breakers between the G9 and the Olys I see are :
(a) As I don't have access to a demo unit, I'm worried that the AF wobble inherent with Contrast Detection could bother me
(b) the option of using the m43 kit along with my Canon kit for Wildlife *action* and BIF *if* the light is good, to take advantage of the crop factor - I guess the Oly Hybrid AF would grab focus faster than G9?

I have about 4-5 months before my next travel where I will need the long range. In the interim, I may just get the Oly body + a short range zoom + the Oly 60mm 1:1, and check if the Oly 100-400 gets released by then.

Terry Lane also speaks highly of the P100-300 Mk II (

), and says that the zooming mechanism of the 100-300 is smoother than the PL100-400. However, the 100-300 seems to suffer from Purple fringing only if used on a non-Panasonic body. But the review does conclude that the PL 100-400 is definitely better than the 100-300 II.




Dec 12, 2019 at 06:00 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · M43 purchase advice


WanderNWonder wrote:
FM Buy/Sell isn't available


Not sure what you mean by that. It is at your fingertips: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/10



Dec 12, 2019 at 11:46 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · M43 purchase advice


Landscapes at 400mm (800 FF equiv) are likely to be tricky at any time due to atmospheric issues (heat issues and haze). I personally find this limits the value of ultra teles for landscape shots unless you are taking shots in Iceland, cold winter or similar. I reckon 150-200 (300-400mm) is plenty for landscapes, hence my comment. But equally the 100-400mm is good value, so it is not a terrible risk to buy it and see. Agree completely about secondhand if you can. I don't think you can go wrong whatever body you pick.


Dec 12, 2019 at 12:41 PM
Amol Thorat
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · M43 purchase advice



WanderNWonder wrote:
The reason I'm researching this on forums is that I cannot find any dealer with a demo unit in my city (in India). FM Buy/Sell isn't available

Another factor is that these bodies and lenses are not available for rental here.
Lastly, there's no option to return within 14 days. You buy it, you keep it. The resale market is abysmally bad (for sellers).

So effectively, I will be forced to decide a body + lens based on online research and feedback, go to the dealer, then buy it, then try it after unsealing the boxes.



Outside of buying used check e-infinity for excellent prices on new units. I have bought from them and apart from warranty issues they are legit.

Get in the way touch with me if you want I might be travelling to India mid next year and can get you a lens or two of your choice.

P. S. If that website makes you twitchy, they also have eBay store with same prices.



Dec 12, 2019 at 09:34 PM
BruceRH
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · M43 purchase advice


I have the EM1.2 and the PL 100-400. I shoot hand held a lot with this combo. IMO, a great set up is the EM1.2, 12-100 Pro, PL 100-400, and for wide, the PL 8-18. As others have said, buying from e-infinity is a nice deal, they offer a one year store warranty and take returns, of course you pay the return shipping. I have bought quite a few lenses from them with out any issue. Welcome to FM and MFT.


Dec 12, 2019 at 10:29 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · M43 purchase advice


Welcome @WanderNWonder!

I've used Olympus since 2012, E-M5, then E-M1 and then E-M1.2. Prior to this summer I exchanged my E-M1.2 for a Panasonic G9 and to me, the differences are night and day. The G9 is simply the more superior camera by, what feels like, at least a generation or two ahead.

Apart from a superior user interface with a touch screen that works in almost every way and every menu both for making settings and shooting, the camera body has more direct and quick access controls than the E-M1.2 which means there is less need to menu hopping or the use of the super control panel. Now the super control panel on the Olympus is great, and I fully understand some love it. But for me, if I have the option between pressing a button, bringing up a menu, change drive mode (for example) and then press a button to confirm OR to simply turn one dial one or two steps in order to do the same thing, that camera is the clear winner for me. Same thing for focus stacking for example which should be interesting for your flowers. It's right there on the mode dial on the G9. Olympus requires menu hopping and as the E-M1.2 doesn't have a personal/custom menu to save your favorite settings unlike the G9 (and E-M1X) that menu hopping takes even longer.

As far as your concerns about AF wobble, this has been blown out of proportion to such an extent that it has become silly. The only time you might experience it is while continues AF and even when it is obvious, you will most likely (I did) become used to it and not see it. Personally I don't care about it in Continues AF, I just trust the camera to nail focus where anyway even though it might sometimes look in the EVF as it is out of focus. Remember the autofocus calculations, which can cause the wobble, is calculated 480 times every second, the wobble that exists is extremely fast. Speaking of the EVF, it's miles ahead of the Olympus in terms of quality and resolution.

Also, to answer your question about the fastest S-AF between the two cameras, the G9 wins hands down. The E-M1.2 is fast, no doubt about it, but it's fast as in most other cameras are fast. The G9 is just a step ahead and feels near instant in a way I haven't noticed any other camera do. I actually tested the G9 with another Olympus user when the G9 was released and we both looked at each other and agreed on the same thing, the G9 was just fast, pure and simple.

Another thing that might benefit you with the G9 and for hand held macro shooting or shooting with long glass is, although the G9 shutter is very sensitive as it is, you can change a setting to set the camera to shoot when you half press the shutter. This further enhances the speed and more importantly the chance of vibrations caused by your movement when pressing the shutter.

Image stabilization of both cameras are on par, I almost only use Olympus glass on my G9 (as that is what I bought in to for 7 years with Olympus) but the lenses I use work as well or better (faster AF) on the G9. The only lens I "regret" buying is the Olympus 300mm F4, I would have been better of with the Panasonic 200mm F2.8 with TC 1.4. Though the built in IS of the Olympus 300mm F4 is at least as good as built in IS of Nikon/Canon long glass so for that sake it is not a problem really, with dual IS though you just get even better IS.

I wouldn't really agree there is little to differentiate the two cameras, for me, the differences are massive but that doesn't mean they are massive for other people, or indeed that they are in favor of the G9.

The PL 100-400 has been proven to be a very good lens. I have no doubt Olympus' upcoming 100-400 will be as good and probably better but it was just announced on the road map and the last road map Olympus presented a year ago has been left pretty much empty as far as real releases goes. That doesn't mean we won't see a 100-400 this year but I wouldn't built a system around "waiting" for one particular lens that might come in a year, or two, or three or not at all.

Depending on your funds, if I were to start with m43 now, knowing what I know, doing what I do I would go with a G9, PL 12-60mm F2.8-F4 and the PL 50-200 F2.8-F4 and possibly add a TC1.4 in the future. that way you are covered from 24-400mm with very high quality variable aperture glass in at a very good size and weight, all of it weather protected. To this I would add a macro for pure and very close flowers shots (if I were you) and a wide angle in the future such as the PL 8-18. That's just me though

Regards

Rasmus



Dec 13, 2019 at 02:57 AM
WanderNWonder
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · M43 purchase advice


Imagemaster wrote:
Not sure what you mean by that. It is at your fingertips: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/10


Oh I meant that there aren’t are sellers from my city or even from India on FM buy/sell.
I don’t have a reputable source of purchasing used equipment In India.



Dec 13, 2019 at 04:41 AM
StefanSC
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · M43 purchase advice


There seems to be very little to differentiate between the G9 and the EM1.2 - small things that are subjective from user to user -- that's indeed a good thing for buyers, to have the choice.

Actually, there are some rather big things that differentiate the G9 and the EM1.2 that can add up quite fast

First one, and the one that infuriates me usually is that the G9 embeds in it's RAW a 2Mpx JPEG (Nikon for example embeds full size JPEGs). This makes critical focus evaluation almost impossible if you are not shooting RAW+JPEG (which will eat into your buffer and card write times).

Second one, the card write controller in the G9 seems to be a bit laggy so in certain situations, you'll lock up the camera for a few seconds (I have already tested 3 cameras with different production dates and all were doing this and I have found multiple reports from other users of this).

Other things that I can come up now are like follows:
- hard stop buffers that mean you'll need to either end the burst or hit the buffer limits before the camera writes to card (coming from a Nikon D500 that writes to card as fast as you shoot, it is frustrating).
- Hi-Res is limited to 1s exposure, ISO1600, no flash...
- No Live-Composite mode (this can be brilliant for low light shooting).

Then again, some Olympus E-M1.2 features (e.g: focus stacking) only work with certain lenses, while G9 works with pretty much any lens...

Overall though, I'd say that, after the recent 2.0 software update, the G9 is the better value camera of the two and it is clearly a class above in ergonomics.



Dec 13, 2019 at 08:23 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · M43 purchase advice


WanderNWonder wrote:
Oh I meant that there aren’t are sellers from my city or even from India on FM buy/sell.
I don’t have a reputable source of purchasing used equipment In India.


Why does the seller have to be in India? I have bought and sold items from sellers and buyers on the other side of the world.



Dec 13, 2019 at 11:12 AM
Wilbus
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · M43 purchase advice


Imagemaster wrote:
Why does the seller have to be in India? I have bought and sold items from sellers and buyers on the other side of the world.


Not sure about India but if it's anything like Sweden, buying from any country outside the European Union adds import tax and customs fees to the product, be it used or not. I've ordered stuff that has been cheaper by some 25-30% to Sweden outside of EU and ended up paying more than I would have had I bought it here. So that could be one reason amongst many.



Dec 13, 2019 at 01:06 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · M43 purchase advice


Wilbus wrote:
Not sure about India but if it's anything like Sweden, buying from any country outside the European Union adds import tax and customs fees to the product, be it used or not. I've ordered stuff that has been cheaper by some 25-30% to Sweden outside of EU and ended up paying more than I would have had I bought it here. So that could be one reason amongst many.


Of course it varies by country and it is up to the buyer to determine any additional costs.

All I know is that I have sold gear to buyers in Germany, France, and Australia, so they obviously thought all was okay for the final price delivered to them.



Dec 13, 2019 at 01:23 PM
WanderNWonder
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · M43 purchase advice


Imagemaster wrote:
Of course it varies by country and it is up to the buyer to determine any additional costs.

All I know is that I have sold gear to buyers in Germany, France, and Australia, so they obviously thought all was okay for the final price delivered to them.


Apart from variable non-standard import duties, there’s no assurance of products actually reaching you / or reaching you in good condition.



Dec 13, 2019 at 01:55 PM
WanderNWonder
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · M43 purchase advice


A huge round to thanks to everyone for the wealth of information being shared here!
My apologies I’ve not been able to respond individually to each comment as I’ve been researching all the info that’s been shared here.
Amol, thanks a lot for the offer to ferry over a lens I hope it doesn’t come to that 😄, but much appreciated. I will check the site you suggested.



Dec 13, 2019 at 02:03 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · M43 purchase advice


WanderNWonder wrote:
Apart from variable non-standard import duties, there’s no assurance of products actually reaching you / or reaching you in good condition.


Such is life and that is not unique to photography gear. Only you can decide on the best option.

As for the product reaching you in good condition, that is why the Seller puts insurance on the gear he sells to you.



Dec 13, 2019 at 02:08 PM
WanderNWonder
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · M43 purchase advice


The one thing I've probably assumed due to habit, is that I'll be using the EVF on the G9 or the EM1.2
Is that how most M43 users use their camera, or is it the norm to use the LCD?

I saw in a video that the EM1.2 uses more battery when the EVF is used vs the LCD. Not sure if that's true for the G9 as well?



Dec 14, 2019 at 04:17 AM
savingspaces
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · M43 purchase advice


WanderNWonder wrote:
The one thing I've probably assumed due to habit, is that I'll be using the EVF on the G9 or the EM1.2
Is that how most M43 users use their camera, or is it the norm to use the LCD?

I saw in a video that the EM1.2 uses more battery when the EVF is used vs the LCD. Not sure if that's true for the G9 as well?


Your concern is a non issue. I’m going to say that most every one uses the EVF.



Dec 15, 2019 at 12:52 AM
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