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Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Fred Miranda
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p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
Agreed, it’s all very well made. I’m assuming the hood unscrews into two pieces because they had to manufacture it that way versus there being a function for the user. Leica would have put a thread locker on there, but I like being able to separate it even if it serves no function.

I didn't know the LLL IRROA hood separated in two. I tried it out and it's very well machined, although as you wrote, it does not serve any functionality. I ended up with two black paint hoods but one is matte and the other glossy.

Jan 12, 2023 at 11:35 AM

Desmolicious
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p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Jan 12, 2023 at 01:00 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Fred Miranda wrote:
I didn't know the LLL IRROA hood separated in two. I tried it out and it's very well machined, although as you wrote, it does not serve any functionality. I ended up with two black paint hoods but one is matte and the other glossy.

Mine was a bit lose out of the box, so I noticed by accident while trying to rotate the hood slightly once attached. Unlike the 12504 hoods, the clamps on the LLL IROOA are very tight. Not sure if that is because they are new and most of the 12504 hoods are old and well worn or if they're just built with stronger springs.

I think I recall seeing people buying two of the LLL IROOA hoods, one silver, one black, just so they could swap out the colors for a different look. The Leica IROOA has a silver base and a black hood, FWIW.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294273728301

Speaking of 12504, I found a nearly-new old stock 12504 (separates for filters) on eBay and ordered it to try out on this lens since it supposedly fits. Usually they sell for over $300 in good shape, but I found this one from a US seller for under $200. I'm going to remove the brass LLL filter and hood and use a Breakthrough UV then see if the 12504 will clamp down over it. If it won't fit over the mounted filter, I'll put a 49mm B+W into the 12504 hood and go that route. I'm thinking this will make the 8-E feel a lot more like the 35 Lux pre-ASPH v2. I really like how the 12504 hood on the v2 acts as a finger stop. The IROOA hood also makes it more difficult to access the aperture ring than I would like, but I'm not sure if the 12504 will help in that regard.

Jan 12, 2023 at 01:19 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

I think the 12504 works with the 39mm thread LLL lenses. Correct?

Just got the 35/2 8E and its FC characteristic is wild. At infinity, it's extreme and the lens does not quite reaches infinity at center but does at the corners. I requested another copy to make sure that's a normal behavior.

Jan 12, 2023 at 02:48 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Fred Miranda wrote:
I think the 12504 works with the 39mm thread LLL lenses. Correct?

Just got the 35/2 8E and its FC characteristic is wild. At infinity, it's extreme and the lens does not quite reaches infinity at center but does at the corners. I requested another copy to make sure that's a normal behavior.

It sounds like you got a bad one. My first regular version 8E was ridiculously bad, albeit in a different way (center hit focus at infinity and f/2 but everything away from center was silly soft even at f/8). I have two 8E now that both seem to work as designed, so I don't think the one you have is functioning to spec.

Is your sample the current V7?

Not sure about the 12504 fitment of all 39mm LLL lenses, but if it fits the 35 8E, I would imagine it fits the Elcan as well since the 8E and Elcan share the same IROOA hood.

Jan 12, 2023 at 03:18 PM

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p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
It sounds like you got a bad one. My first regular version 8E was ridiculously bad, albeit in a different way (center hit focus at infinity and f/2 but everything away from center was silly soft even at f/8). I have two 8E now that both seem to work as designed, so I don't think the one you have is functioning to spec.

Is your sample the current V7?

Not sure about the 12504 fitment of all 39mm LLL lenses, but if it fits the 35 8E, I would imagine it fits the Elcan as well since the 8E and Elcan share...Show more →

I've tested it on the 40MP M10-R. Centering is just 'ok'.

With my copy, at f/4 the image is sharp across the entire image field at infinity distance. Oddly, starting at f/5.6, I see a small drop in resolution at center but mid and corners continuing improving. Perhaps as you wrote, f/5.6 and smaller, required a tad shorter than hard stop infinity. (small focus shift there)

The wildness only happens at f/2-2.8 where field curvature is extreme and "W" shape. It looks like f/2 does not hit true infinity at center (but does at corners). However, at f/2.8 and f/4 the center is sharp at the hard stop...so, not sure. I'm attributing all this mostly to field curvature and not focus shift but have to try a new copy to make sure.

The one I'm testing is VL3 but I'm getting a VL7 tomorrow from PopFlash.

Jan 12, 2023 at 03:50 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Fred Miranda wrote:
I've tested it on the 40MP M10-R. Centering is just 'ok'.

With my copy, at f/4 the image is sharp across the entire image field at infinity distance. Oddly, starting at f/5.6, I see a small drop in resolution at center but mid and corners continuing improving. Perhaps as you wrote, f/5.6 and smaller, required a tad shorter than hard stop infinity. (small focus shift there)

The wildness only happens at f/2-2.8 where field curvature is extreme and "W" shape. It looks like f/2 does not hit true infinity at center (but does at corners). However, at f/2.8 and f/4 the...Show more →

The out of the box issues with the 8E don't seem to follow any consistent pattern as far as the issue itself, but maybe there is a common cause such as an element being out of place or even an issue with the quality consistency of the old leaded glass they sourced for these.

Jan 12, 2023 at 03:57 PM

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p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
The out of the box issues with the 8E don't seem to follow any consistent pattern as far as the issue itself, but maybe there is a common cause such as an element being out of place or even an issue with the quality consistency of the old leaded glass they sourced for these.

I don't want to post any images or tests until I know I have an optical copy.

Jan 12, 2023 at 03:59 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Fred Miranda wrote:
I don't want to post any images or tests until I know I have an optical copy.

For sure!

Are you also getting another copy of the Elcan to see if it's better centered than your first one?

Jan 12, 2023 at 04:02 PM

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p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
For sure!

Are you also getting another copy of the Elcan to see if it's better centered than your first one?

Yes.

Jan 12, 2023 at 04:20 PM

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p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Given the growing number of Light Lens Lab replica lenses (Leica and others) in the pipeline, I've renamed this thread to encourage discussion and image sharing for any of their products.

Please feel free to continue the discussion and posting of images beyond just the 35 Cron replica!

Jan 12, 2023 at 05:49 PM

rscheffler
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p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
I received the brass version kit today. I like it

Performance is identical to my collapsable version. I tested them at infinity with the same results:

– Center frame infinity focus at f/2 is at the hard stop (center of infinity symbol)
– Center frame infinity focus at f/8 is just before the hard stop (left edge of the infinity symbol)
– Corner performance at f/8 is excellent (center at infinity, corner at ~50m)

Screenshot examples have the default C1 sharpening. Images were taken on the SL2-S (previously had used the M11 and a common lens to set the hard stop on the Hawk's...Show more →

Somehow I missed this post yesterday. I need to check mine again but I feel like your copy at f/2 is sharper and higher contrast. There's barely a difference between the 200% house crop wide open compared to f/8, other than sharpness. Contrast seems very similar. The near distance wide open shots of the cactus look great.

Are you seeing any wavy field curvature or mid-frame weakness?

highdesertmesa wrote:
Not sure about the 12504 fitment of all 39mm LLL lenses, but if it fits the 35 8E, I would imagine it fits the Elcan as well since the 8E and Elcan share the same IROOA hood.

I have the LLL IROOA hood too and use it with the 90/4 v1 Macro and 50 Cron Rigid. I think it fits a lot of Leica 39mm filter thread lenses...

Regarding field curvature: it would be interesting to see how our copies compare.

For example, mine below, shot at about 30-45˚ angle and ~1.5-2m distance of gravel. Bring images into PS, use the Find Edges filter and desaturate or convert to grayscale.

Jan 12, 2023 at 05:57 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

rscheffler wrote:
Somehow I missed this post yesterday. I need to check mine again but I feel like your copy at f/2 is sharper and higher contrast. There's barely a difference between the 200% house crop wide open compared to f/8, other than sharpness. Contrast seems very similar. The near distance wide open shots of the cactus look great.

Are you seeing any wavy field curvature or mid-frame weakness?

I have the LLL IROOA hood too and use it with the 90/4 v1 Macro and 50 Cron Rigid. I think it fits a lot of Leica 39mm filter thread lenses...

Regarding field curvature: it...Show more →

At infinity and f/8, I'm not seeing mid-frame weakness, I only see some sharpness falloff toward the frame edges, but that is only noticeable at 200% on the 24mp SL2-S. At f/2, it's the same, but of course the falloff toward the edges happens sooner. But I see nothing were the edges and center are sharp with a weak mid-frame. That's all at infinity, as I don't usually test sharpness across the frame at close distance, since I usually shoot wide open when closer to the subject.

I'll give the FC test a try so if nothing else we can see how our copies compare at close distance. I'm definitely not seeing wavy field curvature at infinity. Have you tried moving focus at f/8 slightly inward? For me, that sharpness up f/8 considerably. Otherwise, if I leave f/8 at the hard stop, infinity sharpness at f/8 looks actually a little softer than f/2.

Yes, if I just add a very, very little sharpening in C1, the f/2 infinity shot looks just like the f/8 in the center. Of course, adding some sharpening to the f/8 images still makes it better than the f/2, but not by as much as I see with the defaults. Keep in mind that these are very casual shots, and my f/8 shot was done at a much slower shutter speed. But the IBIS of the SL2-S is pretty good, so I don't think a tripod would have benefitted the f/8 shot all that much at 1/80th sec.

200% – Top f/2 (sharpened) vs. Bottom f/8 (default sharpening)

Jan 12, 2023 at 06:35 PM

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p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
At infinity and f/8, I'm not seeing mid-frame weakness, I only see some sharpness falloff toward the frame edges, but that is only noticeable at 200% on the 24mp SL2-S. At f/2, it's the same, but of course the falloff toward the edges happens sooner. But I see nothing were the edges and center are sharp with a weak mid-frame. That's all at infinity, as I don't usually test sharpness across the frame at close distance, since I usually shoot wide open when closer to the subject.

I'll give the test a try so if nothing else we can see how...Show more →

The edges on your sample is my mid-field because I'm testing resolution 'diagonally' to take into account the entire image field.
Your mid-field is really part of the center area so I'm not surprised you are not seeing too much weakness.

Also, the 24MP sensor is more forgiving for vintage lenses like this one. I'd prefer to use this lens on the M9-P instead of M10-P.

Jan 12, 2023 at 06:43 PM

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p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Jan 12, 2023 at 06:45 PM

rscheffler
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p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Hi Fred, the animation shows both focus shift and how field curvature evolves as my copy is stopped down.

I don't see a lot of FC wide open compared to f/4-5.6 where it and focus shift is most pronounced before DOF begins to mask it. IIRC that animation is half stop increments.

It really does seem like this lens has significant copy to copy and perhaps version to version differences. Mine does not have a version code but was from the end of 2020.

Jan 12, 2023 at 07:01 PM

rscheffler
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p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
At infinity and f/8, I'm not seeing mid-frame weakness, I only see some sharpness falloff toward the frame edges, but that is only noticeable at 200% on the 24mp SL2-S. At f/2, it's the same, but of course the falloff toward the edges happens sooner. But I see nothing were the edges and center are sharp with a weak mid-frame. That's all at infinity, as I don't usually test sharpness across the frame at close distance, since I usually shoot wide open when closer to the subject.

I'll give the FC test a try so if nothing else we can see...Show more →

I don't use the lens a lot for infinity shots so haven't closely evaluated it for that, but I now habitually intentionally front focus it when stopped down more than f/2.8. So effectively doing the same as you.

Thanks in advance if you're able to do the field curvature test shots. You don't have to make it into a gif if that's a hassle. Even just seeing f/2, 4 and 8 would be informative.

With my copy, it's notably lower contrast wide open and picks up at f/2.5 and again at f/2.8. From what I recall from the long RFF pre-order thread, LLL tweaked the design to intentionally drop wide open contrast. Maybe they changed their mind about this at some point since because your copy doesn't appear to show this.

Jan 12, 2023 at 07:07 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.9 #18 · p.9 #18 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

rscheffler wrote:
I don't use the lens a lot for infinity shots so haven't closely evaluated it for that, but I now habitually intentionally front focus it when stopped down more than f/2.8. So effectively doing the same as you.

Thanks in advance if you're able to do the field curvature test shots. You don't have to make it into a gif if that's a hassle. Even just seeing f/2, 4 and 8 would be informative.

With my copy, it's notably lower contrast wide open and picks up at f/2.5 and again at f/2.8. From what I recall from the long RFF pre-order thread,...Show more →

I just now tried infinity stopped down to f/5.6. This time, though, I left focus at the hard stop, and yes, the edges are sharp while the center is soft. But if I focus the center manually via the EVF, then everything is in focus in the shot. Like Roger Cicala has posted about wavy FC, it helps to focus so that infinity (or whatever the plane of focus is) passes through as much of the wave as possible. Stopped down past f/2.8 on the 8E, I guess this optimal point is just in front of infinity. So this would confirm some wavy FC at infinity.

Jan 12, 2023 at 07:30 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.9 #19 · p.9 #19 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

Fred Miranda wrote:
The edges on your sample is my mid-field because I'm testing resolution 'diagonally' to take into account the entire image field.
Your mid-field is really part of the center area so I'm not surprised you are not seeing too much weakness.

Also, the 24MP sensor is more forgiving for vintage lenses like this one. I'd prefer to use this lens on the M9-P instead of M10-P.

The magnified shots I did were center and far-far right corner (brightened to match the center), not the mid-frame. Here are the three diagonal crops similar to how you do your tests. I can't really tell, but mid-frame doesn't look much softer than the corner. I need to reshoot when the entire scene is lit by the sun. The mid-frame and corners in this example are low contrast compared to the center, and that makes it really hard to make a determination.

100% – three crops on diagonal: center, mid, corner

200% – three crops on diagonal: center, mid, corner

Jan 12, 2023 at 07:36 PM

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p.9 #20 · p.9 #20 · Light Lens Lab (LLL) replica lenses discussion & image thread

highdesertmesa wrote:
The magnified shots I did were center and far-far right corner (brightened to match the center), not the mid-frame. Here are the three diagonal crops similar to how you do your tests. I can't really tell, but mid-frame doesn't look much softer than the corner. I need to reshoot when the entire scene is lit by the sun. The mid-frame and corners in this example are low contrast compared to the center, and that makes it really hard to make a determination.

Stopped down I get these results with the 8E as well. I should get the other copies on Saturday and hopefully they will be optimal.

Jan 12, 2023 at 09:52 PM

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