Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
  

Archive 2019 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed

  
 
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


So...I've intermittently suffered with the LR spot removal tool being slow, but because I've always bought mostly overpowered systems it's been tolerable, but with the recent update of LR Classic to 8.4.1 it became ridiculously slow. I thought at first it was my upgrade to the Sony A7R IV, but checking some images from my A7R III's, they are just as bad now.

I did find a solution, not one I'm particularly happy with, but it works. The issue is *clearly* tied to LR's raw/DNG engine in some way. Why do I say this? Well, it happens on any raw format image I've tried. Thinking maybe Adobe had an issue with their Sony or Canon conversions, I decided to convert some ARW files to DNG--no luck, still slow as dirt (using Adobe-created DNG files). Then I remembered that the TIFF files I get out of my stacking program (Helicon Focus) are HUGE and yet I never have a problem with the spot removal tool.

I converted a bunch of my raw files to TIFF and re-imported them and voila! Problem solved. Spot removal is now fast. Searching the web it appears that this has been a long-standing problem for Adobe to resolve, and most of the workarounds I found made only mild improvements in speed--but converting to TIFF made the impossible at least workable.

Just thought some others might benefit from this solution!



Oct 23, 2019 at 08:28 AM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


I just tried it in both heal and clone. I did about dozen of each one and it was instant. I'm using an 8 year old iMac, specs below. I am getting a new iMac in a few weeks.

Just curious. Have you seen this before? I'm pretty much set mine up following this.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html

Is your history extensive? Are you doing a lot of heavy editing besides the spot removal? Since the adjustments to your images are saved as parametric data, as a recipe if you will, with every single change to the image, the entire recipe has to be 're-cooked'.

In a pixel based editor, once the changes are made, they're made for good. In the Post Processing world, this is called 'baked-in'. If you do a lot of editing it is recommended to use PS.







Oct 24, 2019 at 05:05 AM
mikeengles
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


What this poster seems to be suggesting is that I assume, if a 16 bit tiff copy of the RAW file is used for spot removal, the process is faster using the tiff rather than the original RAW file in LIGHTROOM.
Nothing is baked in and to get a baked in version, the file has to be rendered.
I assume that this is what they mean.



Oct 24, 2019 at 08:14 AM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


mikeengles wrote:
What this poster seems to be suggesting is that I assume, if a 16 bit tiff copy of the RAW file is used for spot removal, the process is faster using the tiff rather than the original RAW file in LIGHTROOM.
Nothing is baked in and to get a baked in version, the file has to be rendered.
I assume that this is what they mean.


Yes, this is EXACTLY what I mean. The problem with the clone/healing brush in LightRoom is well-known and has been complained about for a very long time. Suggesting people switch to PS only to remove the dust spots in an image is an untenable solution, and quite frankly a cop-out by Adobe.

I haven't seen anyone else mention what I found--that simply changing the file to a TIFF format fixes the problem. That implies that there is some link between the RAW/DNG formats and this problem with the clone/healing brush.

BTW, the problem really only rears its head on high-resolution monitors. You can even minimize it by minimizing the window size. Also, as I mentioned in my thread, while the problem was minor to manageable on my computer in the previous versions of LR, the newest 8.4 and 8.4.1 "updates" seem to have taken it big step backwards. I suspect its related to Adobe's attempted improvement in rendering by using the graphics card acceleration, but even if I totally turn off that setting in LR, the problem persists.




Oct 24, 2019 at 08:23 AM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Zenon Char wrote:
I just tried it in both heal and clone. I did about dozen of each one and it was instant. I'm using an 8 year old iMac, specs below. I am getting a new iMac in a few weeks.

Just curious. Have you seen this before? I'm pretty much set mine up following this.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html

Is your history extensive? Are you doing a lot of heavy editing besides the spot removal? Since the adjustments to your images are saved as parametric data, as a recipe if you will, with every single change to the image, the entire recipe has to
...Show more

LR runs lighting fast for me for everything EXCEPT the clone/healing brush, and again, once I change the file from RAW/DNG to TIFF, even that tool works fine. It was also fine before the most recent updates, even on my older machines. The overall problem with just the clone/healing brush is a well-known one, and suggesting that we just flip back and forth to PS to deal with one item is untenable and quite frankly just a dumb solution. Clearly there is something odd about how that particular tool is implemented in LR such that it's the only tool that seems to show this problem, broadly across both machines and operating systems.

The point of my post was that simply changing the file into a TIFF completely resolves the speed issue, at least on my computers. I haven't seen that posted or mentioned anywhere as a potential solution to the issue, so I wanted to share it here for others. Apparently I wasn't clear enough.




Oct 24, 2019 at 08:27 AM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Good you mentioned the process you came up with. I’m on 8.4.1 as well so I found it interesting because I don’t have that slowdown.


Oct 24, 2019 at 10:14 AM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Zenon Char wrote:
Good you mentioned the process you came up with. I’m on 8.4.1 as well so I found it interesting because I don’t have that slowdown.


From what I found poking around the web, it appears that it's correlated with screen size and resolution--the larger and higher-resolution the screen, the worse the problem, or if you are running multiple screens. I have a 5K display, and while my MacBook is loaded with a 6-core 2.9GHz Core processor and 32GB of RAM, the graphics card is only 4MB and laptop cards are always somewhat underpowered. That no doubt has some role to play. That said, turning off the graphics cards acceleration to force LR to use the CPU and RAM doesn't seem to work anymore (that apparently did help in older versions). It seems to never tax the CPU much at all.



Oct 24, 2019 at 10:55 AM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Oh I see. I just ordered a 27” 5K iMac. I guess I’ll find out in a few weeks. I’ll keep your process in mind. Thanks.


Oct 24, 2019 at 11:04 AM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


This may be helpful for Windows users.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63243364



Oct 26, 2019 at 09:56 AM
rdeloe
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Earlier this year I spent a lot of time spotting really large TIFF files. These were roughly 2,600 ppi scans of 4x5 negatives. Think 12,000 pixels or more on the long edge. Lightroom was almost unusable. The only solution that worked was spotting in Photoshop, where spot removal is effortless and lightning fast. Then I would import the TIFF file into Lightroom. (I'm using Version 8.4 of LR).

Unfortunately, I noticed no improvement -- none -- by working in 16 bit TIFF. TIFF, DNG, whatever, in Lightroom it's always awful to do a lot of spotting.

Incidentally, this is the only thing I have ever had to do in Photoshop. Otherwise I do all of my editing in Lightroom.



Oct 26, 2019 at 10:40 AM
Chris Court
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Zenon Char wrote:
Oh I see. I just ordered a 27” 5K iMac. I guess I’ll find out in a few weeks. I’ll keep your process in mind. Thanks.


I'm running an i9 iMac and I'm sorry to tell you that spot removal remains a painfully slow business in Lightroom CC.

C



Oct 26, 2019 at 12:52 PM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Lightroom CC. Are you referring to the mobile version or Lightroom Classic? I only got the i5 because I don't need that extra processing power. If i9 is bad then I'm glad I didn't spend the money. I wouldn't have just for that. We will see.

I don't do a lot of spot removal so I can send a file to PS if need be. Not my preference bit I have done it in the past because I never really liked how it worked in LR.



Oct 26, 2019 at 02:22 PM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Read carlo's post. I will be doing a clean install. On Nov 1 I'm ordering 32GB of OWC RAM so that will give me 40. I was going to do that anyway. If I need 64 I'll get two more sticks in December.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-is-broken

There is also this which I follow. It does not hurt to optimize the catalogue fairly often.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html



Oct 26, 2019 at 03:16 PM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Zenon Char wrote:
Read carlo's post. I will be doing a clean install. On Nov 1 I'm ordering 32GB of OWC RAM so that will give me 40. I was going to do that anyway. If I need 64 I'll get two more sticks in December.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-is-broken

There is also this which I follow. It does not hurt to optimize the catalogue fairly often.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html


Just to be clear, most of what I've seen recommended on this issue is useless. Literally everything in the post from Carlos is useless and irrelevant. The same applies to that Adobe link.

The problem for the most part, for most people is with ONE tool, the Spot Removal Brush/Clone Stamp. Occasionally they will also report issues with the other tools in that group of tools (the graduated filter, radial filter, etc.). In addition, the unifying theme in recent years seems to the use of a 5K display or a similar display. This is not caused by anything in the operating system or optimization settings for Lightroom--in fact, people have reported the exact same issue with Windows and LR.



Oct 26, 2019 at 04:59 PM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Thanks for the info. I wasn't going to hold my breath That link came from here put was PC based but I came across the mac part. I don't know enough about it as I have only started reading about it.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63243364



Oct 26, 2019 at 05:06 PM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Just an interesting nugget to add to this:

I use a mid 2018 MacBook Pro with a 2.9GHz 6-core Intel Core 9 processor that has 32GB of RAM and AMD Radeon 560X graphics card with 4GB of RAM, which is to say, it's loaded. LR and everything else on this machine is very fast. I can do anything on it in LR, lightning fast, *except* use the LR Spot Removal tool. It's not even about editing lots of spots. It noticeably slows down with the second spot I clone out, and gets worse with each one.

Interestingly enough, the same tool, on the same images, works perfectly fine and super fast on my laptop when it's not connected to my 5K external display.

The point of my original post is that the problem also disappears for me when I switch to TIFF versions of the exact same files. I haven't seen anyone report this yet, and maybe there's some clue to the root cause of the issue in that?



Oct 26, 2019 at 07:01 PM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


I have been reading more about this. Not much to report. Thanks for the additional info. Based on what I read it has been reported to Adobe. Might be a memory leak. I have lots of those.

When I get my new comp I'll try a TIFF out. Let's keep this going.



Oct 26, 2019 at 07:11 PM
imagesfromobjects
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Only posting to say thanks. Not super relevant to me, as LR on my 10 year old iMac sucks regardless (seriously, try doing spot removal on a 500mb negative scan, better clear the schedule for the rest of the day) but have you posted anything in the Adobe forums about this? It could help spread the word...
jhapeman wrote:
Just an interesting nugget to add to this:

I use a mid 2018 MacBook Pro with a 2.9GHz 6-core Intel Core 9 processor that has 32GB of RAM and AMD Radeon 560X graphics card with 4GB of RAM, which is to say, it's loaded. LR and everything else on this machine is very fast. I can do anything on it in LR, lightning fast, *except* use the LR Spot Removal tool. It's not even about editing lots of spots. It noticeably slows down with the second spot I clone out, and gets worse with each one.

Interestingly enough, the same tool, on
...Show more



Oct 26, 2019 at 07:30 PM
jhapeman
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


So, I have a new update to this that may help some folks when editing if they are running into the slow spot removal.

I use my cameras extensively for my work, doing product shots with a macro lens. I am forced to clone out dust spots due to the way the images are used, and usually I'll have anywhere from a handful to up to 100 spots to clone in any given image. All of this to say that being able to clone out dust spots is crucial to my workflow.

To see if I could learn anything about why the spot removal is so slow, I started experimenting with dialing back various edits I do upon importing an image. I have a preset created that applies a custom color profile, a bunch of basic edits to exposure, clarity, highlights, shadows, etc. as well as a lens profile including CA adjustments.

Turning off all of these items one at a time, I found that problem lies with the lens corrections. Turning that on is what makes the spot removal tool slow to an absolute crawl. That's why the TIFF conversion worked, as there's no lens correction in TIFF files.

This may not work for everyone experiencing this problem, but it solved it for me. Worth a try if you're having the same problem!



Oct 28, 2019 at 10:24 AM
Zenon Char
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Solution for LR Spot Removal Speed


Thanks for posting. I'll have to try that out when the new mac arrives. I also have several things auto apply at import including lens corrections. If I excluded lens corrections, created a lens corrections preset and applied to all the files in the Library window would it select the correct lens for each file or just apply the same one for all the files?




Oct 28, 2019 at 11:39 AM
1
       2       3       end




FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.