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Archive 2019 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95

  
 
davewolfs
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p.10 #1 · p.10 #1 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


Can’t wait to pick one of these up for the myself, the wife and kids.

Nikon made this lens cost just the right price to attract the Leica crowd 😂



Oct 14, 2019 at 01:32 PM
hans98ko
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p.10 #2 · p.10 #2 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


lara_ckl
You brought up a good point about inflation.
I remembered in the 70's 1USD = 2.4SGD and in 2012 1AUD = 1.33SGD, today 1USD = 1.37SGD and 1AUD = 0.93 SGD. Make lots of difference if we include inflation or deflation.



Oct 14, 2019 at 01:37 PM
LeifG
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p.10 #3 · p.10 #3 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


hans98ko wrote:
Hey LiefG,
Provided you only have a pistol in hand and not a bazooka, I will hide in an armor vehicle with a 30mm and take your challenge. 😋
Being right or wrong, winning or losing is not of importance . What I am trying to share is there are actually a lot of different type of glasses and elements with different transmission coefficient and deflective index to choose from, other than just the form factor or shape of the elements.


Do you have examples of such lenses? We have had lots of types of glass for ages. Low dispersion glasses, and aspherics are important elements in modern designs, as manufacturers have found ways to make such glasses and more complex curves at affordable prices. The point I made earlier is that a Fresnel lens is a novel technology that allows significant weight reduction in long lenses as it is lighter than conventional elements, and reduces the lens tube length. Where is the equivalent in a fast ~50mm lens? Current high performance fast standard and wide angle lenses are heavy.

As a slightly silly and off topic aside, you could make a very fast and light camera with a fixed lens based around a Schmidt design, basically a sensor at the focal plane of a spherical mirror, with a correcting plate in front. It would have a fixed aperture and focussing might be tricky. But that would not work with a Nikon Z body!



Oct 14, 2019 at 03:12 PM
hans98ko
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p.10 #4 · p.10 #4 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


LiefG,
I definitely do not have those samples with me now. The only sample I have now is a bar of crystal they grew in the lab presented to me as a souvenir by the management of one of the company I worked with 3 decades ago. That single bar can easily cost over a thousand dollars for manufacturer buying them.
But what you mentioned about low dispersion glass is due to the molecular structure of the element that does not disperse light as much as other elements, while asperical is due to having a non spherical surface. They are two different things we are talking about.
When I said we have different types of elements, I am talking about elements with different molecular structure or atomic structure, and not about one having different molecular structure while the other having a different shape.
One can have an element with low dispersion, an another element with ultra low dispersion, but we cannot have a single element with both low dispersion and ultra low dispersion.
On the other hand we can have a low dispersion with an asperical surface in a single element if we want to.
Maybe you can find out more on your own, because it is going to be a long discussion with many names and dopping applied to form the different types of elements that I myself have to refer back to text and data that I don't have now.

Edited on Oct 14, 2019 at 04:57 PM · View previous versions



Oct 14, 2019 at 04:25 PM
LeifG
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p.10 #5 · p.10 #5 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


hans98ko wrote:
LiefG,
I definitely do not have those samples with me now. The only sample I have now is a bar of crystal they grew in the lab presented to me as a souvenir by the management of one of the company I worked with 3 decades ago.
But what you mentioned about low dispersion glass is due to the molecular structure of the element that does not disperse light as much as other elements, while asperical is due to having a non spherical surface. They are two different things we are talking about.
When I said we have different types of elements,
...Show more

I’m fully aware what (extra or anomalously) low dispersion glass is, and yes obviously I was referring to asperical surfaces. I was giving a couple of reasons why modern lens designs are so good.

Interestingly I’ve never seen a consumer lens with an asperical surface on an extra low dispersion element. I recall (perhaps incorrectly) that ED and other special low dispersion glass is harder to work which may explain that.

I know some here are not excited by this lens, but I find it amazing. It is one hell of a paper weight.



Oct 14, 2019 at 04:45 PM
hans98ko
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p.10 #6 · p.10 #6 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


No you didn't recall incorrectly that you have not come across an aspherical element with ED glass. Yes, it is harder to work with but not impossible if one really needs to have it.

Yes, I agree that many will buy that lens and store it as a paper weight rather than use it, hopping to sell them at a profit in the future. 🤑



Oct 14, 2019 at 05:02 PM
azenis
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p.10 #7 · p.10 #7 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


Quite frankly, I don't know why there's sorta a fight going on here.

This lens is CLEARLY NOT FOR EVERYONE! Just as Nikon noted in the original Noct, "this is a very special lens".

Yeah, F0.95 can be had for less... yeah, I'm sure there's a sharper lens out there, and yeah, I'm totally convinced there's a lens that has a better rendition...

BUT! It's about the combination of the 3. We haven't gotten any decent samples to analyze with, but I'm sure the sharpness is off the chart (for a lens of same/similar spec) and NO other lens at this aperture will come close to what the new Noct is doing.

It's a clear example of the other end of the 20/80 rules. Where you can have spend 20% to get 80% of the performance, but it's going to cost you the higher you go. This case, we are talking about the 99.99% of the lens pyramid.

From the reading, some folks here don't seem to get that for some... it makes sense to spend a fortune to pursuit the absolute.

And TBH, $8000 might sound absurd to the normal Nikon pricing... but in the world of collectible lenses, where people are willing to pay crazy amount (and I do mean crazy... ever seen a standard lens fetching over a new car? And it's not even a cheap car either. ) for a specific lens. They aren't just after the rarity, (quite a few of collectible lenses I'm suggesting have less than 1000 copies in the wild and many in the tenth territory) but the rendition of those lenses.

You'd ask why in the world anyone is willing to pay a premium for something when the al-mighty PS can add any look one wants? Well... because it can do without! And it's those microscopic differences that those lenses are capable of producing naturally that people are after.

Similar thing can be said to many things... people buy different synth/music instruments because it produces a slightly different tune... people pay shocking amount of money for a turbillion when a 50dollar Casio is better at keeping time... so on...

If you aren't willing to pay 8k for a Nikon or a lens for that matter, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. There are people out there who have the need (pro or amateur alike) or simply appreciate the subtle (subjective) difference the Noct can bring.



Oct 14, 2019 at 05:20 PM
hans98ko
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p.10 #8 · p.10 #8 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


Haha!
I don't think we are fighting, we might have some misunderstanding here and there. But we do enjoy a friendly discussion, even though one of us pull out a pistol and another a 30mm Canon. 🤣



Oct 14, 2019 at 05:44 PM
suteetat
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p.10 #9 · p.10 #9 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


azenis wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't know why there's sorta a fight going on here.

This lens is CLEARLY NOT FOR EVERYONE! Just as Nikon noted in the original Noct, "this is a very special lens".

Yeah, F0.95 can be had for less... yeah, I'm sure there's a sharper lens out there, and yeah, I'm totally convinced there's a lens that has a better rendition...

BUT! It's about the combination of the 3. We haven't gotten any decent samples to analyze with, but I'm sure the sharpness is off the chart (for a lens of same/similar spec) and NO other lens at this aperture
...Show more

If you believe Nikon's published MTF and Sigma's published MTF chart, ( I know it is calculated and does not neccessarily reflect the real performance but since this is the only data we have at the moment), it looks like 58/.95 at f.95 should have very similar resolution to 50/1.4 Art at f1.4 in the center and outperform Sigma Art by quite a bit as you move away from the center. At leasting according to MTF chart for both lenses that I saw on photographylife.
Noctilux 50/.95 is actually quite sharp but with really thin dof, it is really hard to see that sharpness
Too bad, lenscore.org seemed to disappear. They are one of the few sites that actually measured quite a lot of Leica glasses and use the same 200mp sensor on all of their measurement across all the brands. Resolution wise, if I remember correctly Noctilux is not shabby at all but it performs poorly from vignette, CA etc standpoint.

As far as value, this is one rumor that I heard, Nikon plans to release one reasonable size batch of 58/.95 but that will be it. After the stock runs out, you can obtain the lens by special order only and most likely price will be even higher. So looks like
if you keep the lens for a few years, 2nd hand price is unlikely to drop very much.




Oct 14, 2019 at 07:23 PM
azenis
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p.10 #10 · p.10 #10 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


hans98ko wrote:
Haha!
I don't think we are fighting, we might have some misunderstanding here and there. But we do enjoy a friendly discussion, even though one of us pull out a pistol and another a 30mm Canon. 🤣




Either way, I think as a standard lens nut, I'm very interested in the noct.

However, I just don't see myself getting one.

Z mount has the shortest flange distance of them all out of the major FF mounts there are, making it impossible to adapt to anything else but a Nikon Z body.

We don't know what's going to happen with the Z mount for now... but as far as the current development goes, there's no Z camera that attracts me (hopefully yet). And I think given how fast everything the digital imaging world is moving, I really wouldn't want a lens that can only be used on a single type of body.

The reasoning is that I see camera as films... and I use the best that suit me. I'm with Sony now... but if anyone else come out with a body that includes a sensor better than Sony's, I'd switch in a heartbeat. The very reason I went Sony is because I have the best sensor (arguably, I know) available to all the lenses I have, and I'm not willing to give that up. Mount loyalty is overrated for me in this age.



Oct 14, 2019 at 07:53 PM
Wesley Perrault
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p.10 #11 · p.10 #11 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


Agreed, but the gap is closing between 35mm FF & Medium Format.

zhangyue wrote:


And none of MF glasses can reach that look

You don't want bring MF topic please, someone will jump out to claim why the hell need to get MF digital with A7RIV at 65M.





Oct 14, 2019 at 11:54 PM
Arka
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p.10 #12 · p.10 #12 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


hans98ko wrote:
My personal opinion is not about large or small, heavy or light, but more about being balanced.
Sometimes Nikon has a tendency of going overboard with things.
I really do not mind using heavier gears, but it has to remain within context. Like most of the 50mm to 58mm are around 500gm, but this 58mm monster is going way overboard by having 4 times the average weight. Must this be so big and heavy to get to this performance? I doubt and do hoped that someone else will come up with a lens of equivalent performance at half its weight and
...Show more

Yes exactly. I could not agree more.

Like I mentioned earlier, if you give engineers an infinite weight budget, they can give you some version of perfection. But if you need a train to move it, it's not particularly useful.



Oct 15, 2019 at 12:00 AM
hans98ko
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p.10 #13 · p.10 #13 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


At the end of the day, it is all about different strokes for different folks.
Some will be willing to have it at all cost even by selling part or all of their body, while others will not even with the cash in hand. 🍻



Oct 15, 2019 at 12:47 AM
LeifG
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p.10 #14 · p.10 #14 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


it’s not uncommon for Nikon to make a batch of a product rather than continuous production. They did that with the SE binoculars. And $8,000 isn’t that much for many people, it just seems a lot compared to a standard 50mm lens from Nikon.


Oct 15, 2019 at 02:23 AM
alundeb
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p.10 #15 · p.10 #15 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


Arka wrote:
But if you need a train to move it, it's not particularly useful.


We are not exactly there, are we. I could easily carry the Noct mounted on a camera in my Think Thank retrospective 7, along with a couple of other light lenses and accessories.

The Sigma 200-500 f/2.8 is not particularly useful.



Oct 15, 2019 at 03:02 AM
rattymouse
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p.10 #16 · p.10 #16 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


hans98ko wrote:
My personal opinion is not about large or small, heavy or light, but more about being balanced.
Sometimes Nikon has a tendency of going overboard with things.
I really do not mind using heavier gears, but it has to remain within context. Like most of the 50mm to 58mm are around 500gm, but this 58mm monster is going way overboard by having 4 times the average weight. Must this be so big and heavy to get to this performance? I doubt and do hoped that someone else will come up with a lens of equivalent performance at half its weight and
...Show more

Incredible. You think Nikon made this lens this size just for fun?

Wow.



Oct 15, 2019 at 03:19 AM
hans98ko
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p.10 #17 · p.10 #17 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


rattymouse wrote:
Incredible. You think Nikon made this lens this size just for fun?

Wow.


Never came to my mind that Nikon makes this lens this size just for fun. But since you brought it up, I think it might as well be, because most of the buyers are either going to be investors or using it just for fun. And I don't think many professionals will buy this and use it for their business. We are talking about a single FL and the types of photography that can capitalized with it. 😁



Oct 15, 2019 at 03:40 AM
LeifG
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p.10 #18 · p.10 #18 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


hans98ko wrote:
Never came to my mind that Nikon makes this lens this size just for fun. But since you brought it up, I think it might as well be, because most of the buyers are either going to be investors or using it just for fun. And I don't think many professionals will buy this and use it for their business. We are talking about a single FL and the types of photography that can capitalize with it. 😁


It would be interesting to know who actually does buy it. I’m not going to say whether or not I agree with you, because you do unsporting things like threaten me with a 30mm cannon. Or was that a typo, and should have read a 30mm Canon? In which case I will bring a duelling pillow. I do miss pillow fights, one of the sad aspects of adulthood.

On a more serious note, it occurred to me that a larger sensor means less DOF, so the 58mm F0.95 lens on FX could be equivalent to a 35mm F1.4 lens assuming a reasonably large sensor. I couldn’t find anything like that, so MF users could buy this lens with a Z6/7 to ‘get the look’. There are plenty of MF users with big budgets.



Oct 15, 2019 at 03:57 AM
hans98ko
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p.10 #19 · p.10 #19 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


I am also curious to know the actual distribution of buyers for this lens.
But my guess is that some will end up in stores like Grays of Westminster in England.
But one thing I am sure was it wasn't a typo error for Canon with a capital "C" with a reverse hook and a single "n". Only that I am not sure which font Canon uses. ☺️



Oct 15, 2019 at 05:56 AM
Charlie N
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p.10 #20 · p.10 #20 · Nikon Z-Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/0.95 lens US price: $7,996.95


azenis wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't know why there's sorta a fight going on here.

This lens is CLEARLY NOT FOR EVERYONE! Just as Nikon noted in the original Noct, "this is a very special lens".

Yeah, F0.95 can be had for less... yeah, I'm sure there's a sharper lens out there, and yeah, I'm totally convinced there's a lens that has a better rendition...

BUT! It's about the combination of the 3. We haven't gotten any decent samples to analyze with, but I'm sure the sharpness is off the chart (for a lens of same/similar spec) and NO other lens at this aperture
...Show more
The lens appeals to a very slim market of folks that are able to afford it, power lifters, and like the oddball 58mm focal length.

I don’t find the price to be offensive, but the weight and odd focal length.... it’s like 65mm Voigtlander, it was a big hype once, but 65mm? Who ever asked for that?



Oct 15, 2019 at 08:49 AM
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