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Archive 2019 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

vdo1
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda wrote:
Voigtlander 15/4.5 III E-mount A7R3 vs A7R4

The CV 15/4.5 III is a great little ultra wide but it's an older design. It's very sharp at center and it certainly benefits from 60MP. However, off-axis and specially towards the corners, there is very little difference between 42MP and 60MP as you can see in the crops below:

I expect the FE 12-24/4 G and Sigma 14-24/2.8 Art @15mm to do much better towards the corners at 60MP.

So the differences in this example will be noticeable only when at 2:1 magnification versus the display resolution.

In terms of prints, it will be then noticeable if you print the images at 150dpi instead of the common 300dpi standard. So quick question - how big is an R4 image printed at 150dpi? 64” on long side?

Sep 19, 2019 at 07:24 PM

samosh
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

vdo1 wrote:
So the differences in this example will be noticeable only when at 2:1 magnification versus the display resolution.

In terms of prints, it will be then noticeable if you print the images at 150dpi instead of the common 300dpi standard. So quick question - how big is an R4 image printed at 150dpi? 64” on long side?
Curiosity got the best of me. Biggest metal prints I ever printed were 24X36. With 42MP it makes it 220PPI and it is more than enough for that size. With 60MP and very large 60X40 metal print ($600 at Adorama) the print will be at 158 PPI. So I used Fred's test pictures and printed them on my photo printer scaled to 158 PPI. Of course from normal viewing distance about 4ft for 60x40 size of print I couldn't even see the fine details. I had to get closer than 18" to see the difference between "worse" A7RIII part and A7RIV. Your vision may vary, but I doubt that anybody would be looking at 60X40 print from less than 2 ft. That tells me unless you need billboard size prints, 60MP is overkill. Of course extreme cropping can use extra pixels, but I'm not sure that less than perfect lenses will show much benefit from extra resolution.

Sep 20, 2019 at 02:46 AM

alundeb
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

samosh wrote:
Curiosity got the best of me. Biggest metal prints I ever printed were 24X36. With 42MP it makes it 220PPI and it is more than enough for that size. With 60MP and very large 60X40 metal print ($600 at Adorama) the print will be at 158 PPI. So I used Fred's test pictures and printed them on my photo printer scaled to 158 PPI. Of course from normal viewing distance about 4ft for 60x40 size of print I couldn't even see the fine details. I had to get closer than 18" to see the difference between "worse" A7RIII part and...Show more →

Probably in the minority, but I am not buying the premise that people wouldn't look at large prints from 18" distance. For me that is the whole point of printing big, letting people go closer and see detail they didn't think was possible.

Sep 20, 2019 at 02:55 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

alundeb wrote:
Probably in the minority, but I am not buying the premise that people wouldn't look at large prints from 18" distance. For me that is the whole point of printing big, letting people go closer and see detail they didn't think was possible.

Exactly, that's what I do with large prints to see if it were made from a high megapixel image and what possible extra detail may be present.

I must admit that I'm hearing lots of good reports about the improved AF of the A7RIV and I'm now more inclined to grab the one in due course. It looks like the tracking has been greatly improved and it'll make a great wildlife/birding camera with enormous cropability. Still the A9II mabe so good I'll soon forget all about the A7RIV.

Sep 20, 2019 at 06:19 AM

chez
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

alundeb wrote:
Probably in the minority, but I am not buying the premise that people wouldn't look at large prints from 18" distance. For me that is the whole point of printing big, letting people go closer and see detail they didn't think was possible.

I've got some large prints in my house and people do come in close to see fine details. I've also noticed while in galleries, people do walk right up to a print and view it up close. Of course, they also view the image from a distance where they can see the entire image at once.

Sep 20, 2019 at 09:33 AM

snapsy
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

alundeb wrote:
Probably in the minority, but I am not buying the premise that people wouldn't look at large prints from 18" distance. For me that is the whole point of printing big, letting people go closer and see detail they didn't think was possible.

You're the majority - walk into any art gallery and you'll see lots of people sticking their faces up to the prints.

Sep 20, 2019 at 10:04 AM

samosh
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

I guess I'm in minority. For some reason I like to see a picture of the forest and don't care much how leaf on a individual tree look like. But back to the print, unless you going to print 60x40 anything over 200 PPI printed on ink-jet or dye sublimation printer is going to look the same from any distance. On huge prints you can see the difference from the close distance.

Sep 20, 2019 at 12:53 PM

ArizonaImage
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

So, not really much reason to upgrade to a IV.

Sep 20, 2019 at 01:11 PM

chiron
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Some photographs may have interesting details. Whether people would routinely want to see a framed and hung photographic print up close probably depends in part on the picture. If, for example, there are relatively small faces in a larger print, then people might want to see the image up close, at least sometimes. If the photo is of an bird or other animal, or a flower, and there is a lot of detail in the feathers or fur or petals, then people might occasionally want to be up close. But those are probably a minority of cases given the universe of wall hung photographs. Most of the photographs that I personally like the most and might want to hang on my walls don't have those kinds of details, e.g. images by Saul Leiter.

Edited on Sep 20, 2019 at 01:58 PM · View previous versions

Sep 20, 2019 at 01:24 PM

JayPhoto1
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

SouthwestS2K wrote:
So, not really much reason to upgrade to a IV.

I think it depends on what matters most to you. There are other improvements so to some -- the total package might be worth the upgrade. If you can live without the other improvements and only care whether or not 60mp will make a big difference, you might decide to pass on the R4.

Sep 20, 2019 at 01:32 PM

DannyBurkPhoto
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

I'm with the "infinite detail" crowd. For landscape, I want to feel like I'm there, seeing every possible bit of detail. (For flowers, not as much, as rendering is much more important to me.) I suppose that much of this comes from my long history of 4x5 and 617 shooting, which was the reason that I wouldn't consider converting to digital till 4 years ago when the 5DSR came out; it was also the reason why I wouldn't shoot 35mm film.

Sep 20, 2019 at 02:14 PM

mjm6
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

DannyBurkPhoto wrote:
I'm with the "infinite detail" crowd. For landscape, I want to feel like I'm there, seeing every possible bit of detail. (For flowers, not as much, as rendering is much more important to me.) I suppose that much of this comes from my long history of 4x5 and 617 shooting, which was the reason that I wouldn't consider converting to digital till 4 years ago when the 5DSR came out; it was also the reason why I wouldn't shoot 35mm film.

Hell, I do that with impressionist paintings where infinite detail isn't even relevant...

Sep 20, 2019 at 02:19 PM

chiron
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

mjm6 wrote:
Hell, I do that with impressionist paintings where infinite detail isn't even relevant...

Paintings have very limited resolution compared to photographs. I also look up close at a painting, usually very briefly and generally only once, but I think it is to see the brush strokes and texture or smoothness of the paint and the artist's "hand," since there is no detail to be seen. With some impressionists, when you get up close you can see how they have created colors and shades out of multiple small dabs of paint. But when one does this, for example in Monet's Cliff Walk, the effect the artist was trying to create actually disappears.

Sep 20, 2019 at 02:34 PM

mjm6
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

chiron wrote:
Paintings have very limited resolution compared to photographs. I also look up close at a painting, usually very briefly and generally only once, but I think it is to see the brush strokes and texture or smoothness of the paint and the artist's "hand," since there is no detail to be seen. With some impressionists, when you get up close you can see how they have created colors and shades out of multiple small dabs of paint. But when one does this, for example in Monet's Cliff Walk, the effect the artist was trying to create actually disappears.

Yes, I do it for the technique information, but I also do it to understand what it was like to actually paint the work, since you can only really work at arm's length. I move in close and appreciate the scale from close up and how it abstracts the whole painting at times.

Sep 20, 2019 at 04:00 PM

olalafoto
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda wrote:
Note: Even though the Loxia 35/2 is an older design (35/2 ZM) optimized for the Sony sensor, it has outstanding performance at center and f/4. (As you can see above, the extra megapixels are able to discern finer detail)

Please show the corner comparison of F4~F5.6, thanks a lot

Sep 20, 2019 at 10:59 PM

freaklikeme
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Thanks for the tests, Fred. It looks awesome. You need to get somewhere things actually change color this autumn and give that thing a real workout.

Sep 20, 2019 at 11:40 PM

pdmphoto
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

chez wrote:
I've got some large prints in my house and people do come in close to see fine details. I've also noticed while in galleries, people do walk right up to a print and view it up close. Of course, they also view the image from a distance where they can see the entire image at once.

I doubt they would notice any difference in quality, if it came from an R3 or and R4 - unless you had them side by side, printed very very large, and were looking at them up close. Then, only maybe

Sep 21, 2019 at 12:21 AM

alundeb
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

pdmphoto wrote:
I doubt they would notice any difference in quality, if it came from an R3 or and R4 - unless you had them side by side, printed very very large, and were looking at them up close. Then, only maybe

Agreed. 42 to 61 MP is a good but still modest increase in resolution. It will not affect your work much if you skip a sensor generation or two. A while back, when the resolution made a jump from 12 to 21 MP, with the 5D, we used to think that was a lot. (Sorry for using Canon here but it is only an example) When we often could not see that much difference in the prints, people started to think that we were reaching the point of diminishing returns, and sensor resolutions beyond 21 MP would be wasted. Then we got to 50 MP, and I have to say that when I look at even 24x16 inch prints, I can always see the difference from 12 MP, and it is not difficult either. The point here is that we need a significant increase in sensor resolution to see the difference, while the upgrade steps are incremental.

It makes sense to upgrade from 42 to 60 if you feel you want a little bit more. It also makes sense to skip this upgrade. It also makes sense to say that you think 60 will be enough, but I think we will see each other again when 120 is the norm at it is about upgrading to 150.

Sep 21, 2019 at 04:44 AM

AndrewNYC
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

I know, imagine actually sitting back and looking the image, you know, the art!

samosh wrote:
I guess I'm in minority. For some reason I like to see a picture of the forest and don't care much how leaf on a individual tree look like. But back to the print, unless you going to print 60x40 anything over 200 PPI printed on ink-jet or dye sublimation printer is going to look the same from any distance. On huge prints you can see the difference from the close distance.

Sep 21, 2019 at 06:25 AM

chez
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

AndrewNYC wrote:
I know, imagine actually sitting back and looking the image, you know, the art!

But they do that as well. If you rely on people standing back 5' to view your photo and some of these people come in close to view the details and the details are mushy...I would think they would have a different experience with your photo than if the details were sharp and revealing.

Sep 21, 2019 at 07:51 AM

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