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Archive 2019 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Matti6950 wrote:
I would love similar shots like Fred Miranda's for the Sony 24-70mm GM (F5,6-F8), especially 24-35mm but also long end. Trying to decide if i will like this lens on A7RIV. I'll try to find your old thread with r3? to make a base for comparison.

Even with a high IQ prime lens, I would not expect much difference after f/5.6.

Sep 18, 2019 at 02:57 PM

dtcls100
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

To me, the differences are not something I would ever really notice except side by side and at high magnification of the same subject. Even the differences appear to be that the R4 seems to be slightly contrastier and with a slightly more vivid reproduction of the greens, rather than resolution per se.

Combined with the higher price, much larger file sizes, longer processing times, need for higher shutter speeds and better technique to take advantage of the higher resolution, I am taking a pass on the R4. The real world advantage is slight, the real world disadvantages are substantial based purely on the R4's increased resolution. The improved EVF and AF tracking could be a different matter though.

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:02 PM

snapsy
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Just for reference, here's an animated GIF I created comparing the Panasonic S1 and S1R, in both their native modes (24MP/47MP) and their pixel-shift modes (96MP/187MP). Note how only the pixel-shifted S1R images completely removes the visible aliasing, specifically the false diagonal lines the shaded parts of the boxes (they become distinct dots, which is how they appear on my laser-printed test chart).

Animation: S1 vs S1R, Normal vs Pixel-Shift, Upsized to 600MP, 100% Crops

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:04 PM

saxguy
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda wrote:
I've updated my video card (Vega 64) and things got much faster with GPU.

I'm iMac based and can't change my GPU. I can add an external GPU, but I have very little knowledge of what will work best in this regard.

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:06 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

saxguy wrote:
I'm iMac based and can't change my GPU. I can add an external GPU, but I have very little knowledge of what will work best in this regard.

That's what I did. I added a custom eGPU. My Mac Pro has 3 video cards now!

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:12 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda wrote:
I've updated my video card (Vega 64) and things got much faster with GPU.

I did the same upgrade and it does make a nice difference. Pay attention to not only the amount of RAM, but its speed as well and a nice fast hard drive all work together to speed things up. You can get a 2 TB pretty fast SSD hard drive for right around $200 now.

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:14 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

saxguy wrote:
I'm iMac based and can't change my GPU. I can add an external GPU, but I have very little knowledge of what will work best in this regard.

You can add the Vega 64 for about $400 and and the case for the external GPU with a good fan (not optional) costs about $200. You do need a mac with thunderbolt 3 (i.e., USB-C) to take full advantage of the speed of the GPU, however.

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:16 PM

snapsy
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Steve Spencer wrote:
You can add the Vega 64 for about $400 and and the case for the external GPU with a good fan (not optional) costs about $200. You do need a mac with thunderbolt 3 (i.e., USB-C) to take full advantage of the speed of the GPU, however.

The Vega 64 needs a 650W power supply, which runs a little more on Mac-certified eGPU enclosures, $300 - $350.

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:19 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

The new 16-image pixel-shifted image yields a 105MP image (12528 x 8344) whereas the 4-image pixel-shifted image keeps the file at the same 60MP.

Pixelshift2DNG does a great job automatically converting everything in a batch. (The only problem is that the resulting file will be full of artifacts when shot outdoors)

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:37 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

snapsy wrote:
The Vega 64 needs a 650W power supply, which runs a little more on Mac-certified eGPU enclosures, $300 - $350.

If you shop carefully you can find them for a little less. I found my Mac-certified 650W enclosure for $200.

Sep 18, 2019 at 03:38 PM

Easyshot
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks! The Topaz interpolation feel a bit like cheating though.

So, yes, once they are presented in their native resolution 'detail' does not seem too far apart but once we match the R3 to the R4 resolution using PS Bicubic, the difference is noticeable (see below).

Here is the R3 interpolated to 60MP using PS bicubic compared to the native R4.
I will make some printing simulations and see what happens.

Due to the equivalent focal length effect, the A7RIV EFL is 1.2 of the A7RIII. At 1:1, without interpolation, it's like comparing 77.7mm lens of the same glass vs 65mm. You always see the picture a little closer than with A7RIII.

Sep 18, 2019 at 04:15 PM

Matti6950
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda wrote:
Even with a high IQ prime lens, I would not expect much difference after f/5.6.

I dunno but some GM shots like this one have 'oh this is nice' sharpness to then, then a lot of flickr pics have either high ISO, or dont, but still look washy, as thought IBIS worked, but in proces killed 'tripod sharpness' of the image (can't explain it any different).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149213360@N03/27742365719/in/pool-2913649@N24/ looks very nice for instance. I'll sign for a copy like this any time.

This one is about the best i could find on Sony A7R4. With my nikon, if i shoot, say 30 pictures, with good handholding skillset, at least one will be sharp like that. But looking at the flickr pool i'm not sure i will get that succes with the sony as samples like this one are extremely rare. https://www.flickr.com/photos/155280486@N05/39075616221/in/pool-2913649@N24/

This one is a bit exaggerated, but a lot of flickr images look like this, and make me worried, though here is clearly also some movement is 'noise' i think? But there's pics where everything is in focus, but the blur is there like here, but only at maximum magnification. https://www.flickr.com/photos/99843859@N03/26265719069/in/pool-2913649@N24/ This last seems to represent the general output of most ppls 24-70mm GM shots. I know it may not be representative for my style of shooting (only wanting the best, by shooting multiple of one take), but still, it's scary enough. Plenty people who know here how it performs, so curious to hear your opinions.

Sep 18, 2019 at 07:20 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

The Loxia 35/2 performed well on the A7R4 starting at f/4 (center). Off axis not so much.
I will post some crops tomorrow including some with the CV 15/4.5 III.
Both lenses are older designs but still benefit from 60MP.

So far, the best performers are the CV 65/2 APO, 135/1.8 GM and CV 21/1.4 Nokton. (No surprising)
I have a 14-24/2.8 Art E-mount coming in next week and will post some testing as well.

PS: Any lens asymmetry (decentering, tilt) or field curvature are much more noticeable on the R4 than on the R3. (more than I expected)

This test is brutal on 60MP:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1534737

I don't think we need more MP than this unless our lenses will get bigger and bigger....

Sep 18, 2019 at 11:22 PM

gordec
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Looking at Mark Smith's Youtube video review of the r4 looks like the 100-400 may out resolve the 200-600 or at least his copy of the lenses. Also r4 is a very cable wildlife bif camera.

Sep 18, 2019 at 11:32 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Loxia 35/2 Biogon A7R3 vs A7R4:

Here are the Loxia 35/2 comparison @f/4 (R3 vs R4) using the new Adobe LR Profile. (No longer beta)

1:1 crop: A7R3 (Left), A7R4 (right) - native resolution for both

1:1 crop: A7R3 (left), A7R4 (right) - A7R3 interpolated to A7R4 size using PS Bicubic Automatic

Same as image above but now at 2:1 magnification

Sep 19, 2019 at 10:07 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Note: Even though the Loxia 35/2 is an older design (35/2 ZM) optimized for the Sony sensor, it has outstanding performance at center and f/4. (As you can see above, the extra megapixels are able to discern finer detail)

Sep 19, 2019 at 10:14 AM

cameron12x
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Of course, viewing distance and the printed (or otherwise) size of the output will have a bearing on real-world discernable results.

Other than for cropping, there is only marginal benefit (and some minor drawbacks with respect to technique and workflow) to the increase in resolution, imho. That is not to say that the R4 isn't a better body (it is).

And you're right, Fred. We really don't need more than 60mp.

Sep 19, 2019 at 10:22 AM

Daran
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

gordec wrote:
Looking at Mark Smith's Youtube video review of the r4 looks like the 100-400 may out resolve the 200-600 or at least his copy of the lenses. Also r4 is a very cable wildlife bif camera.

Mark didn't say anything about out resolving. In his video he is vague enough that I believe he isn't sure what caused the softness. My personal guess is that there wasn't enough light for the higher fl (1.5x), higher res (1.6^2), lower aperture (1/3 stop) and slower focus (A9 vs R4) combo. Which was mitigated by moving from 600mm/f6.3 to 400mm/f5.6.

Sep 19, 2019 at 10:22 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Voigtlander 15/4.5 III E-mount A7R3 vs A7R4

The CV 15/4.5 III is a great little ultra wide but it's an older design. It's very sharp at center and it certainly benefits from 60MP. However, off-axis and specially towards the corners, there is very little difference between 42MP and 60MP as you can see in the crops below:

I expect the FE 12-24/4 G and Sigma 14-24/2.8 Art @15mm to do much better towards the corners at 60MP.

1:1 crop at center: A7R3 (left), A7R4 (right), A7R3 interpolated to 60MP using Photoshop Bicubic

2:1 crop at center: A7R3 (left), A7R4 (right), A7R3 interpolated to 60MP using Photoshop Bicubic

1:1 crop at corner: A7R3 (left), A7R4 (right), A7R3 interpolated to 60MP using Photoshop Bicubic

2:1 crop at corner: A7R3 (left), A7R4 (right), A7R3 interpolated to 60MP using Photoshop Bicubic

Sep 19, 2019 at 05:23 PM

DavidBM
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · A7R III vs A7R IV: Resolution/Contrast

Fred Miranda wrote:
Voigtlander 15/4.5 III E-mount A7R3 vs A7R4

The CV 15/4.5 III is a great little ultra wide but it's an older design. It's very sharp at center and it certainly benefits from 60MP. However, off-axis and specially towards the corners, there is very little difference between 42MP and 60MP as you can see in the crops below:

I expect the FE 12-24/4 G and Sigma 14-24/2.8 Art @15mm to do much better towards the corners at 60MP.

Striking how much less moire is visible in the r4 images compared to r3 (compare tiles)

Sep 19, 2019 at 06:44 PM

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