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Archive 2019 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

James Farrell
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

EDIT May 27, 2021 - This thread was "renewed" - post #16, page 1, by a newly registered member who may not have seen the original date of my first post. The discussion points are pretty well accepted by most of us and is old news - at least by me.

Original message from 2019: Hey Troops: As the owner of two Z6 bodies which I really like and a couple of Nikkor lenses with VR, I am fully aware that VR is always running when the lens switch is set to on (Normal, Active or Sport) when the Z bodies are active, meaning they’re not in sleep mode. With that said, I wonder why Nikon cannot ‘program’ firmware so that the VR only kicks in when a shutter half press is initiated which is how the DSLRs have always worked? I say that since the FTZ has the same electrical contact configuration as do the DSLRs (at least I think that is right). Anybody ever heard or or read an explanation as to why?

Edited on May 27, 2021 at 01:42 PM · View previous versions

Aug 12, 2019 at 08:05 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

Nikon designed IBIS to always work in coordination with VR - the camera wont let you disable IBIS while keeping VR enabled. As such, VR is always on when IBIS is enabled. There are other cameras that allow IBIS to be enabled separately from lens stabilization, such as some of the MFT bodies, so it's certainly possible from a technical POV.

Aug 12, 2019 at 08:20 PM

James Farrell
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

snapsy wrote:
Nikon designed IBIS to always work in coordination with VR - the camera wont let you disable IBIS while keeping VR enabled. As such, VR is always on when IBIS is enabled. There are other cameras that allow IBIS to be enabled separately from lens stabilization, such as some of the MFT bodies, so it's certainly possible from a technical POV.

Adam: I understand those limitations as I know the system well. Just don’t understand why VR has to be always on when the camera is ‘awake’.

Aug 12, 2019 at 09:02 PM

sjms
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

it seems I am able to switch off my VR on my 70-200/2.8 FL.

it is considerably different when it comes to shake factor with the switch on the lens either on or off

this is from the current Z6 manual updated for FW 2.00

Aug 12, 2019 at 09:07 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

sjms wrote:
it seems I am able to switch off my VR on my 70-200/2.8 FL.

it is considerably different when it comes to shake factor with the switch on the lens either on or off

this is from the current Z6 manual updated for FW 2.00

You can definitely turn off VR on the lens but doing so disables IBIS as well - the two can't be independently enabled/disabled.

Aug 12, 2019 at 10:44 PM

sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

that would only make technical sense. why would one disable only half a system?. what would be the advantage of turning half of it on or off?

Aug 13, 2019 at 02:13 AM

snapsy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

sjms wrote:
that would only make technical sense. why would one disable only half a system?. what would be the advantage of turning half of it on or off?

There are scenarios where each type of stabilization could potentially have unwanted side effects in the resulting image or video, or where one method might be more effective in isolation.

Aug 13, 2019 at 08:34 AM

sjms
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

haven't found those moments yet. I shoot quite a bit too in various scenarios. and I highly doubt many have either. the only time I have the VR off is doing Macro and most tripod based shots. theirs works quite well in harmony.

so tell me when one should be playing either/or. a few scenarios if you please with examples and results before and after. if you can then i'll join the band

the only immediate issue so far I can see is to reduce power consumption. I have a relatively short power down time and that kills everything. when I grab my camera and bring it up I do the half press automatically on the shutter which brings everything back up by the time its in my face.

maybe on the duel carded pro version "coming soon".

Aug 13, 2019 at 08:39 AM

snapsy
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

sjms wrote:
haven't found those moments yet. I shoot quite a bit too in various scenarios. and I highly doubt many have either. the only time I have the VR off is doing Macro and most tripod based shots. theirs works quite well in harmony.

so tell me when one should be playing either/or. a few scenarios if you please with examples and results before and after. if you can then i'll join the band

the only immediate issue so far I can see is to reduce power consumption. I have a relatively short power down time and that kills everything. when I grab...Show more →

For video IBIS can result in intermittent jerky movements whenever the movement range of the IBIS mechanism is exceeded and has to be recentered. For third-party lenses the VR may not synchronize propertly with IBIS (I see image ghosting on the Tamron 70-200 G2 when its VR is enabled on my Z bodies - others have reported seeing it as well). At long focal lengths VR is more effective than IBIS due to the geometry of the movements possible - on previous systems like MFT the IBIS wasn't able to keep up with the VR at these focal lengths. IBIS has the potential to generate more heat, and thus possibly more sensor read noise. On some systems the IBIS movements are audible on video.

Aug 13, 2019 at 09:19 AM

James Farrell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

The conversation is off the tracks. I know what the manual says. And I know the limitations when using G lenses with VR. My original question is what is the technical reason for VR being on all the time when the Z is “awake” unless the Z is in sleep mode or VR is switched off?

Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

James Farrell wrote:
The conversation is off the tracks. I know what the manual says. And I know the limitations when using G lenses with VR. My original question is what is the technical reason for VR being on all the time when the Z is “awake” unless the Z is in sleep mode or VR is switched off?

Because when IBIS is enabled it is always stabilizing the sensor, and Nikon designed IBIS to always work in tandem with VR. As for why Nikon designed IBIS to only work in tandem with VR rather than allowing them be independently enabled, that's a question only Nikon could answer.

Aug 13, 2019 at 01:08 PM

sjms
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

snapsy wrote:
For video IBIS can result in intermittent jerky movements whenever the movement range of the IBIS mechanism is exceeded and has to be recentered. For third-party lenses the VR may not synchronize propertly with IBIS (I see image ghosting on the Tamron 70-200 G2 when its VR is enabled on my Z bodies - others have reported seeing it as well). At long focal lengths VR is more effective than IBIS due to the geometry of the movements possible - on previous systems like MFT the IBIS wasn't able to keep up with the VR at these focal lengths. IBIS...Show more →

I,be seen that occur with normal vr too. What I want is hard evidence

Aug 13, 2019 at 02:36 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

sjms wrote:
I,be seen that occur with normal vr too. What I want is hard evidence

The evidence you seek is just a Google search away.

Aug 13, 2019 at 02:46 PM

sjms
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

As i thought pretty much as expected

Aug 13, 2019 at 06:43 PM

snapsy
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

sjms wrote:
As i thought pretty much as expected

The universe has a habit of delivering what you put into it rather than what you expect from it.

Aug 13, 2019 at 09:00 PM

John Nikon
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

Hi. With my Z50 which has no IBIS, whenever I use my adapted F mount VR lenses, VR keeps running unless the camera goes to sleep or the VR switch on the lens is turned off. Unlike on a Nikon DSLR, half pressing the shutter button activates the VR, and releasing the shutter button, deactivates the VR. With the Z50 and FTZ, the VR is always on (you can hear it) as soon as you turn on the camera! I am worried the VR mechanism on the lens may wear out prematurely since it is always "ON" with FTZ. I have read some instruction (re F mount VR), to wait for the VR to turn off automatically after releasing the shutter button, before you unmount the lens. Because unmounting immediately without the VR going off, can cause damage to the VR mechanism in the long run. With the FTZ and Z50 (and i think with the full frame Z's), VR never goes off automatically. Its always on.

May 27, 2021 at 02:25 AM

OwlsEyes
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

Jim,
I completely understand you question... is there an engineering solution that would allow G/E lenses with VR to behave like they do on F-mount bodies when using the FTZ on a Z6.
Why Nikon chose not to engineer this into their Z-bodes w/IBIS does not make sense. For example, it is possible to deactivate IBIS, while activating the in lens VR system? Clearly, if the body has IBIS, it appears that the answer is no.
I have battled this issue as well because the in lens VR reduces the battery life on the Z-bodies. This is especially true when using big glass. My strange love affair has caused me to repurchase (yes... lens #4) the 200-400mm VR. We can talk about why I made this decision at a later time, but I have decided that I will probably not use VR with this lens unless I am panning a subject. In the past, I would use the VR on my Z6II all the time, but I found that it negatively impacted the batteries. Keeping VR off will make the longer glass a bit more responsive and the cameras sip fuel rather than gulp it.
bruce

May 27, 2021 at 05:45 AM

James Farrell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

OwlsEyes wrote:
Jim,
I completely understand you question... is there an engineering solution that would allow G/E lenses with VR to behave like they do on F-mount bodies when using the FTZ on a Z6.
Why Nikon chose not to engineer this into their Z-bodes w/IBIS does not make sense. For example, it is possible to deactivate IBIS, while activating the in lens VR system? Clearly, if the body has IBIS, it appears that the answer is no.
I have battled this issue as well because the in lens VR reduces the battery life on the Z-bodies. This is especially true when using...Show more →

Hi Bruce: The poster above you "reactivated" this nearly two year old thread. I've just accepted the VR issue when the "Zs" are active. That said, still don't understand the logic especially when a lens without a VR switch is mounted the IBIS does VR, why when a VR switch-equipped lens with the VR turned off kills the IBIS VR?

I understand the battery dilemma with a VR-lens like the 200-400/4. I deal with that with my 500 PF and 70-300 E AF-P. What I've done is to map FN1 on the front of the Z body to "Top Item In My Menu" and have "Standby Timer" as that top item. I have it set for 30 seconds but I can get to "Never" (i.e., stay active) by quick upward presses of the four-way directional controller. So if I sense the action might get hot and heavy, I'll use this setup to keep everything active as needed (knowing where in my pockets an extra battery is located).

May 27, 2021 at 02:14 PM

John Nikon
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

Hi Jim,

I just hope my worries are unfounded re my in-lens VR not getting damaged (or wearing out prematurely) because it's always on when the camera is awake. Suddenly I just want to only use my primes (no VR) with the FTZ, and reserve my FL and other VR lenses with my DSLR. If I hear any member who's been using their VR lenses on FTZ with Z for a couple of years now (or since Z was introduced), with no damages done or diminished performance to their VR mechanism, I would be greatly comforted.

May 27, 2021 at 04:52 PM

James Farrell
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Z6 FTZ F-Mount Nikkor - VR Always On - Why?

John Nikon wrote:
Hi Jim,

I just hope my worries are unfounded re my in-lens VR not getting damaged (or wearing out prematurely) because it's always on when the camera is awake. Suddenly I just want to only use my primes (no VR) with the FTZ, and reserve my FL and other VR lenses with my DSLR. If I hear any member who's been using their VR lenses on FTZ with Z for a couple of years now (or since Z was introduced), with no damages done or diminished performance to their VR mechanism, I would be greatly comforted.

John: I don’t a Z50 so I don’t know what customization options you have. I just let my Z6-II go to standby instead of active after 30 seconds (that amount of time is adjustable). So, my two F mount lenses will sleep also (I.e., shut off the VR). Nothing else I can do except to manually use the switches. I have not heard of any failures of VR systems because of this issue. But that is not to say it has not happened. I do however share your concern.

May 27, 2021 at 06:27 PM


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