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Archive 2019 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series tr...

ghamden
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1606101/0

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1606910/0#14929553

QXD Cards are they the new standard

It seems that no other manufacturer is developing this tech

CF express is another tech in competition with Qxd

I am trying to learn as much as i can from those who have hands on experience

Moving to Nikon Z can be expensive but will it be the future or a fad

So far what i have learned by listening is this seems to be where we are heading backward support is achieved with the adaptor no perfect but a start

The fact that that this first gen has only one memory choice is worrisome.

Jul 31, 2019 at 07:12 AM

davewolfs
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

CF Express will deprecate XQD. Nikon is supposed
to release a firmware update to support CF Express. CF Express And XQD share the same form factor.

Jul 31, 2019 at 07:18 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

CFexpress (PCI express 3.0) type B has the same chassis as XQD (PCI express 1.0 and 2.0) and will be compatible with Nikon's current (and future) XQD-supporting bodies, such as Z7, Z6, D850, D500 and D5.

However, whether they become widely used in the industry is not really clear yet, in my opinion they have superior physical design compared to SD and CF and have a good chance of becoming widely used in professional and enthusiast level cameras, both video and stills. But for now, mostly it is Nikon who are using this card format.

I'm not sure why the card type is a source of worry to you. XQD works great.

Jul 31, 2019 at 07:48 AM

walts.photo
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

Slightly off, but XQD bodies could sell more if someone made an SD to XQD adapter so we could use all of our old SD cards.

Jul 31, 2019 at 07:52 AM

gdsf2
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

Nikon is using the best storage medium and is future ready for the next round of best storage medium. This is a very good thing.

Jul 31, 2019 at 08:16 AM

sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

walts.photo wrote:
Slightly off, but XQD bodies could sell more if someone made an SD to XQD adapter so we could use all of our old SD cards.

I guess if you wanted to cripple a perfectly good camera by taking out a high performance memory product such as XQD and/or CFexpress and put in a lesser card to save a little money its possible easiest using micro SD. it gets kind of snug using SD in a adapter but it possibly could work too. and i'm not so sure that would really up the sales on them because UHS II and XQD are pretty close in pricing.

Edited on Jul 31, 2019 at 09:08 AM · View previous versions

Jul 31, 2019 at 08:59 AM

sjms
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

davewolfs wrote:
CF Express will deprecate XQD. Nikon is supposed
to release a firmware update to support CF Express. CF Express And XQD share the same form factor.

they both will be usable in the same slot too.

Nikon is no longer the only user of XQD/CFx

Jul 31, 2019 at 09:01 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

A lot of manufacturers have announced CFExpress development (10 and counting https://nikonrumors.com/2019/07/23/western-digital-to-also-launch-a-cfexpress-card.aspx/) so it seems like it will take off but we will have to see what other camera manufacturers add the CFExpress slots to their cameras. Will be interesting to see what Canon do with the 1DX3. If they go dual CFExpress (as I'm sure the D6 will) then that will really help the format take off. Nikon seems all in with the format. Sony on the other hand seem to have shown their hand with the A7RIV and won't likely be using the CFExpress in the next round of A7/9 cameras (including the A9II) but they will more likely use them in their Cinema line.

The good thing with Nikon as already mentioned is they have promised FW to allow you to use the CFExpress cards in the existing XQD cameras....but I would also hope that if say a Z8 or Z9 or D6 comes out with CFExpress slot that you can still use your investment in XQD cards in the new cameras....I actually think that that direction of compatibility is more important at this stage if one is going to buy some rather expensive XQD cards now. I believe this type of compatibility is possible but not sure if it has been confirmed that it will happen??

Jul 31, 2019 at 09:49 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

Of course they will be compatible. The reason they use exactly the same chassis and contacts is compatibility.

Jul 31, 2019 at 11:57 AM

gdsf2
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

In each of your three threads, the focus seems to be your concern that the Nikon Z mount will not be supported in the near future. Unfortunately, nobody can answer that question, regardless of the angle you take on the question. The reason nobody can answer is nobody can tell the future.

You will, like everyone else, have to just jump in or not. I did as I have faith Nikon will support this camera system for long enough to make it worth the investment. But it is faith, based on prior behavior by Nikon. No guarantees. And this is true of all the brands.

Jul 31, 2019 at 05:23 PM

NickHoffman
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

But will the XQD format cf express cards ever surface?

Jul 31, 2019 at 05:39 PM

gdsf2
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

NickHoffman wrote:
But will the XQD format cf express cards ever surface?

Yes.

Jul 31, 2019 at 05:53 PM

PrecisionPhoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

I'll stick with SD cards and don't shoot mirror slapping shutter shocking action shots anyway and too much invested in the older cards

Jul 31, 2019 at 05:58 PM

Amol Thorat
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

Does XQD's higher data transfer speeds help only for videos? In my D500 it doesn't matter if I use XQD or SD for stills..or so I have noticed. (I am mostly on SD anyway because I forget XQD at home in the card reader). I see no difference when I use continuous high.

P.S. It is not even those super expensive SD cards, it is a normal run of the mill Lexar 633x. Since this is just a hobby for me and I don't earn off of photography, SD cards are perfect for me considering no matter what people say on internet I had 0 failed SD cards after about 200k photos combined from all the cameras ever since I started.
I think I will just continue to scoff at the prices of XQD since the argument that XQDs are built better and are durable is lost on me.

Jul 31, 2019 at 06:46 PM

ghamden
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

I have Ordered the Z6 Kit looking forward to learning the new tech Thanks for all the info

Jul 31, 2019 at 07:34 PM

arbitrage
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

ilkka_nissila wrote:
Of course they will be compatible. The reason they use exactly the same chassis and contacts is compatibility.

Takes more than just hardware to make them compatible as we know from Nikon having to release FW to make CFE work in the existing XQD bodies.....the reverse will be true also....a new camera that markets itself for CFE will have to decide if they want the FW to support old XQD cards....that isn't a given it will happen considering we have no idea what kinds of corporate deals go on behind the scenes.

Jul 31, 2019 at 09:22 PM

ilkka_nissila
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

>Nikon having to release FW to make CFE work in the existing XQD bodies..

Yes, to support the newer format you have to make an update (it's a newer standard for which there are no products on the market so they have to test that it works in practice too) but backwards compatibility with PCI express 2.0 cards (XQD) should require no additional code to be written since they already have it, and there is no reason to remove it. A motherboard with PCI express 3.0 slot will support older PCI express 2.0 cards, too, this is in the nature of the design that they are aware that people need to use devices from different generations together. In any case Nikon take backwards compatibility seriously. Manufacturers generally don't make changes that provide them with no benefit but would create considerable bad will on the customer side. Early CF express products seem to be very high speed and large capacity, and XQD cards will probably continue to be purchased by people who don't need (and don't want to pay for) 256GB and 1TB/s speeds.

Aug 01, 2019 at 04:52 AM

sjms
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

i'm kind of thinking that those super high speeds will not be a relevant factor at this time. but I also have a feeling that the prices will be well suppressed by the availability from multiple sources.

Aug 02, 2019 at 10:25 AM

GroovyGeek
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

gdsf2 wrote:
Nikon is using the best storage medium and is future ready for the next round of best storage medium. This is a very good thing.

Replace Nikon with Intel and XQD with Rambus and you had an equally audacious statement about 15-20 years ago. As of this writing nobody in their right mind uses Rambus for general purpose applications. I am not even sure if Rambus exists as an ongoing entity. The veracity of the Nikon version of the statement will likely be the same as the veracity of the Intel version - in other words a flop.

XQD is premium priced single vendor technology. It offers benefits in specialized cases where high performance and high reliability are must haves. However as a general purpose consumer technology the benefits are harder to defend, particularly at a cost that is 3-4x that of the technology it is trying to replace. People on this thread and elsewhere asking for XQD to SD adapters says as much.

If CF Express brings down the pricing to a level somewhat commensurate with SD (no more than 1.5-2x of the fastest consumer SD cards) it has a chance. Otherwise it is headed for the same place where iOmega, betamax and Rambus RAM live (three other premium priced consumer technologies that could never get market traction despite their demobstrable technical superiority)

Sony not using XQD even in their top of the line A9 is a loud and clear statement about Sony's view of the tech for CURRENT general purpose consumer applications.

I have tried to understand why Sony made this choice, but there is no reliable public information I could find, sarcastic responses from a particular member of this forum notwithstanding. Would appreciate some links if anyone has them.

Aug 05, 2019 at 12:40 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · QXD Cards are they the new standard This is the 3rd post in a series trying to educate myself on Nikons new Tech

XQD cards cost about the same as tough SD cards (which are slower and have exposed contacts easily soiled and subject to corrosion).

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1261719-REG/sony_qdg32e_j_32_xqd_g_series.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1437903-REG/sony_sf_g32t_t1_32gb_sf_g_series_tough.html

You can find other manufacturers also make similar products, e.g. rugged SD cards by Delkin. I think XQD pricing closely follows the market in features and quality, and is not particularly expensive.

CFexpress cards will probably also follow the pricing of other cards according to what value they have to the users. Faster cards will be more expensive than XQD and cards which are similarly specified as XQD will probably have similar pricing. These products do not exist in a vacuum. For SD, slow cards are really cheap, but these limit the speed and usability of high-resolution cameras. The longevity of SD cards is questionable at best. I have had 5 SD cards in use in my DSLRs and two of them continue to work (two stopped working entirely and there was data corruption on the third). I have shot many more images with XQD cards (than SD) and none of them have had a glitch of any kind. Thus the products are not really comparable in any way.

In the past XQD cards were made by Sony and Lexar, today Sony and Delkin. Numerous manufacturers have indicated they will bring the next-generation CF express cards to the market thus there should not be lack of availability in the future. "Single vendor" may have been true for a short time but this didn't lead to a skyrocketing of the prices, there was a small increase and that was it.

Sony aim to make their mirrorless cameras as small as conceivably possible, and implementing dual XQD / CFexpress card slots would make them larger, contrary to their aims. Nikon were able to squeeze only one XQD slot in their mirrorless bodies, citing the desire to keep the camera grip small (and inciting a lot of complaints about single card slot). XQD may thus be a better fit for a larger camera body. Sony also have cited the popular demand for dual SD card slots and I recall mention of technical problems with XQD / CF express (I'm not sure what technical problems they have with that, perhaps the architecture of the camera just doesn't use PCI express and they don't want to redesign it).

Edit: In this video interview

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/07/19/exclusive-sony-addresses-the-missing-features-on-the-a7r-mark-iv

the Sony interviewee notes that there are "challenges in implementation" with XQD/CFexpress, the cards are larger (he talks a lot about how they feel compactness is important), and how the substantial buffer of the A7R IV takes off some of the pressure on the card speed. Also the user acceptance of card format depends on its usage. He notes that there are certain advantages to XQD card in terms of structure and how it's made but that state of the art in SD is pretty robust.

For me what matters is card reliability, speed and ease of handling, and XQD has been a pleasure. I don't want to buy any more SD cards because of the high failure rate they've had in my usage and the high cost of SD UHS-II cards that have top speed.

Aug 05, 2019 at 05:01 AM

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