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Archive 2019 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29

  
 
timgangloff
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


OSP2017 wrote:
I actually haven't bought any new cameras or lenses in a very long time so for me it's the a9 vs the original 1DX. However, if you look at the 400 2.8, Canon is selling the older model for $7,999. Granted, it is heavier, but it is the same optically. For the 135 f2, Canon is vastly cheaper; Sony is supposedly sharper but the Canon is plenty sharp for me. Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 G SSM II Lens is $3K vs $1899 for Canon v3. Sony's 24-70 is $600 more than the Canon. But I buy used and there Canon
...Show more

You are probably an outlier and are probably not a good fit for Sony at this time due to some missing lenses that your specific needs require. I think, however, there are probably not many guys who have the lens lineup you do with the needs you do.

My long term view was that Sony was innovating with their bodies and the AF system that mirrorless allows. I was and am disappointed by Canon's work and products in this area so far. I was a long time Canon guy and if they can offer an a9 killer, I'll come back as the availability of lenses is so good. However, I don't see that happening and went Sony.

If you look back at any of my posts from a year or so ago, I was big Sony skeptic. But the AF system is that good. The eye AF is fantastic and the new tracking stuff is almost unbelievable. The Sony system is not perfect. The EVF is not as good as or as fast as a light and mirror system. But, it's getting better. There are a few other quirks to the system but my 1dx2 had some too. For example, wifi transfer of images was not possible without the addition of a bleeping $600 adapter.

I hope Sony develops something like a 120-300 2.8 with a built in adapter for a 1.4x. I've used the Canon 200-400 and it's a lovely lens, but too often f4 doesn't work in my poorly lit venues. At a minimum they need a 300 2.8 GM. Too many sports guys need that lens and can't afford the 400 2.8 GM. So, yes I agree that Sony needs to work on their lens lineup to entice working pros, especially those like you with niche needs.

For new guys looking to invest in one system, Sony can be very competitive on pricing. Here is a quick spreadsheet I put together from pricing found on that big internet store in NY.








Jun 06, 2019 at 08:25 AM
jfw3
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


I'm probably jumping in here a bit late, but I'm going to second Matt and Tims comments.

I switched over to Sony at the end of 2018 from Nikon after trying out a couple of A9's. They really are great and at $3,500 they are a steal vs Canon 1DX II at $5500 + 600 for the WiFi attachment which won't send to your phone. The Sony WiFi is excellent for that as well as going FTP through a Verizon HotSpot to something like PhotoShelter. Just a question on that, does anyone know of another service like that which will do FTP?

Back to the Sony...

I shot the same Indy Eleven vs Nashville SC (for Nashville SC) and was using the A9 on a Canon 400 2.8 IS II. At some point I'm going to switch it out for the Sony 400, but for now this did a pretty nice job with the Sigma MC-11. The one drawback is that with the Canon lenses, it has a bit of a lag from when you press down the shutter until it files. Nothing crazy, but you have to get used to it as it feels like about twice what it would with a 1DX attached.

I've uploaded a few shots from the game that day... rather uneventful match, 0-0- draw, but Indy Eleven was wearing their limited edition Indy 500 commemorative jerseys which looked really cool!

While a the backgrounds are more blown out 1, 2, and 4, as was stated in another post here, it's because the subjects are much closer to me and the background is pretty far off. The opposite is the case with the 3rd image with the jersey pull. I don't think any of these would have looked much different if shot at f/4 vs 2.8.


J






















Jun 19, 2019 at 04:34 AM
Graham Crowthe
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Some stunning quality Scholtz!

Have you moved completely to Sony? or, given a test set as we are offered here in the UK?
I personally have turned the offer down for now & am watching the reviews etc from fellow sports snappers, it's a huge leap & not cheap so I'm very reluctant. I do like the cameras as I've used them but the lens' do worry me!



Jun 28, 2019 at 03:52 PM
schlotz
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Graham Crowthe wrote:
Some stunning quality Scholtz!

Have you moved completely to Sony? or, given a test set as we are offered here in the UK?
I personally have turned the offer down for now & am watching the reviews etc from fellow sports snappers, it's a huge leap & not cheap so I'm very reluctant. I do like the cameras as I've used them but the lens' do worry me!


Hey Graham,

The lenses are every bit as good as others say. Personally I've found them on par with all my Canon versions without exception. Having switched over all my landscape gear to Sony over the last couple of years I was in a position to consider doing the same for my sports setup. First up was the a9 & 100-400. I was using the 1DX &100-400 with very good results under the lights here in Lucas Oil Stadium, so this seemed like a good experiment to compare the two. Sony worked great and I was impressed at how well it acquired focus and kept it. During a sequence sometimes the Canons would go OOF for a frame or two before before settling back into focus. Not the case with the Sony's so far. IMO, the Sony acquires focus faster when swinging across the pitch to pick up an action series. That testing pretty much convinced me regarding Sony's capabilities and I proceeded to acquire another a9 and the 400 2.8 (thanks @mitesh). The best unscientific description I can state for that rig is, WOW!

Up front, I spent considerable time reviewing what other sport photographers had been experiencing with their Sony's. Once info started coming in regarding the AF acquisition capability (5.0 firmware) applied to sports, I wanted to see for myself, knowing I could most likely sell the Sony's and not lose a great deal of money if I wasn't satisfied while keeping all of the Canon gear during the testing process. Supposed I could have sought out a test set but didn't. At this point I'm pleased with the switch and have to now start the process of selling off the Canon gear. It's a difficult task coming to grips with relinquishing equipment that has served so well but letting them become dust collectors is not an option

Hope that answers your questions.

Regards,
Matt



Jul 03, 2019 at 07:29 AM
schlotz
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Another follow up: Captures inside Lucas with the Sonys come with a slight green tint, that for me is annoying. With the Canon's, LR setting for all captures were set to temp 4700 & +25 tint. Luckly, sliding the LR tint to +47 solves the imbalance presented by the Sonys. Here is a before and after example.





Left tint=25 - Right tint =+47




Jul 26, 2019 at 08:17 AM
Holger
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


schlotz wrote:
Another follow up: Captures inside Lucas with the Sonys come with a slight green tint, that for me is annoying. With the Canon's, LR setting for all captures were set to temp 4700 & +25 tint. Luckly, sliding the LR tint to +47 solves the imbalance presented by the Sonys. Here is a before and after example.


I don't see an issue at all - as you know that a +47 solves the issue, batch processing all files is an easy solution, right?
Alternatively, you can tweak the WB in the Sony, right? Tried that?



Jul 26, 2019 at 08:27 AM
LBJ2
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


schlotz wrote:
Another follow up: Captures inside Lucas with the Sonys come with a slight green tint, that for me is annoying. With the Canon's, LR setting for all captures were set to temp 4700 & +25 tint. Luckly, sliding the LR tint to +47 solves the imbalance presented by the Sonys. Here is a before and after example.


Interesting. I actually prefer the original. The edited image appears somewhat washed out and some blueish skin tone to me on the player's bent knee. To each his own of course. Either way looking forward to seeing more of your adventure with the new gear.



Jul 26, 2019 at 09:13 AM
schlotz
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Holger wrote:
I don't see an issue at all - as you know that a +47 solves the issue, batch processing all files is an easy solution, right?
Alternatively, you can tweak the WB in the Sony, right? Tried that?


Batch solution is even easier now that I've set the development default settings to what I want. They are automatically applied by camera serial number during import without the need of creating a preset. This way seems to take less time which is very valuable when you're in the middle of an assignment. I am aware of the ability to tweak the WB in the Sony's but to get it dialed in will take significant time to go through that trial and error process. I just haven't found the time to do it yet.

Matt



Jul 26, 2019 at 04:42 PM
schlotz
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


LBJ2 wrote:
Interesting. I actually prefer the original. The edited image appears somewhat washed out and some blueish skin tone to me on the player's bent knee. To each his own of course. Either way looking forward to seeing more of your adventure with the new gear.


Totally understand, it is a preference thing. Most likely one more update will get posted once I've finalized the Sony settings to closely color match similar shots from Canon gear. My cohort still shoots Canon and I process all of our selected frames for each game submittal. This gives me the ability later on to analyze output from both brands. With only a couple of matches under my belt with the Sonys, the +47 tint is a rough shot to keep them generally in line with the Canon's, which are set to +25. I expect the Sony tint will get walked back a tad with more analysis.

Matt



Jul 26, 2019 at 05:01 PM
fhammond
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


I've very much enjoying this thread; super interesting. I'm an experienced amateur and I'm considering the switch to Sony. My daughter moved from rec to competitive soccer this year and I'm eager to up my game too. I've got a 5D IV and an EOS R and a bunch of lenses for both. Neither camera is great for sport and while I was hoping that Canon would have a pro-level mirrorless camera soon, I don't think it's soon enough. On the other hand, I feel like the switch to mirrorless is close enough that buying a 1D X II and the 200-400 f/4 would probably be a bad idea. I'm even thinking about getting a Nikon D500 plus the 300mm f/4 PF lens, just use it for soccer (they are always day games, so f/4 is ok), and wait to see what Canon does.

Ok, specific question for the A9 users: how are the ergonomics compared to the 1D X, particularly with long lenses attached? I've used an A9 (and 1D X) before and I found that my knuckles hit larger lenses on the A9 and that for holding for an extended period, the camera was fairly uncomfortable. That's probably the main thing holding me back from selling all my camera gear and switching. The A7 IV looks to have addressed some of those issues. I'll be interested to see if it's got good focus performance 'though I really don't want to deal with the 61 MP resolution.

Thanks,
Fergus



Aug 08, 2019 at 03:32 PM
schlotz
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Doubt too many sports shooters would ever consider a 61mp solution. Note, you can put it in APS-C mode and be fine for size. Having come from 20+ years shooting Canon, the A9+grip with either the 400 or the 100-400 has not been an issue for me yet. Very comfortable. Really appreciate the less weight.


Aug 08, 2019 at 03:58 PM
schlotz
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Next opportunity to use the new Sony gear is the 18th. In the meantime I've got to get around to posting all my Canon sports gear. Still have a 1DX, 400 2.8 II, 70-200 II, 100-400 II, 25-105, a 5D3, TC's and some other stuff sitting around collecting dust. Maybe I'll get motivated this weekend.


Aug 08, 2019 at 04:17 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


fhammond wrote:
I've very much enjoying this thread; super interesting. I'm an experienced amateur and I'm considering the switch to Sony. My daughter moved from rec to competitive soccer this year and I'm eager to up my game too. I've got a 5D IV and an EOS R and a bunch of lenses for both. Neither camera is great for sport and while I was hoping that Canon would have a pro-level mirrorless camera soon, I don't think it's soon enough. On the other hand, I feel like the switch to mirrorless is close enough that buying a 1D X II and
...Show more

I don't know if you had a battery grip on the A9 when you tried it but it helps a lot to spread out your fingers like you do on a 1DX and at least for my hands (large size glove but skinny) I don't hit into my lenses (only using 100-400GM and adapted 400DOII). That said there is no doubt I find the 1DX more comfortable and also more ergonomic with larger buttons and better wheels. But for the most part I'm okay with the A9/grip ergonomics. I do not like the A9 without grip unless adapting a smaller Canon zoom like my 16-35 or 24-70/4 and even then I like to have the RRS grip extender that I have on the A9.



Aug 08, 2019 at 04:31 PM
schlotz
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Agree with Geoff The grip in the A9 is fine and does provide a good hold an balanced feel. It's not as comfortable and the 1DX but the weight difference is greatly appreciated.


Aug 11, 2019 at 07:59 AM
fhammond
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Interesting. I’ll try the grip again. Are you using the full size grip or just the smaller pinky rest? I’m guessing the full grip.

My issue with the A9 is mostly the small distance between the AF back button and the shutter button; my hand ends up feeling very cramped long before the end of the game. I can’t see how the grip will help but I’ll give it a go.

@schlotz, what size gloves do you wear? I’m an XL



Aug 19, 2019 at 10:13 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


fhammond wrote:
Interesting. I’ll try the grip again. Are you using the full size grip or just the smaller pinky rest? I’m guessing the full grip.

My issue with the A9 is mostly the small distance between the AF back button and the shutter button; my hand ends up feeling very cramped long before the end of the game. I can’t see how the grip will help but I’ll give it a go.

@schlotz@, what size gloves do you wear? I’m an XL


In my case I'm using the full on battery grip. I'm cheap, so bought a 3rd party Meike one that works perfectly fine and I find the rubber grip material used by Meike is better than the plasticky hard stuff Sony uses on the actual camera.



Aug 19, 2019 at 10:27 PM
schlotz
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


Using the same grip as Geoff. The Meike MK9 is a perfect match. Love the rubberized grip area and they are substantially less expensive at $78 vs Sony's @ $348
Have them on both my A9's.

Glove size is L.



Aug 20, 2019 at 06:26 AM
schlotz
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


schlotz wrote:
Totally understand, it is a preference thing. Most likely one more update will get posted once I've finalized the Sony settings to closely color match similar shots from Canon gear. My cohort still shoots Canon and I process all of our selected frames for each game submittal. This gives me the ability later on to analyze output from both brands. With only a couple of matches under my belt with the Sonys, the +47 tint is a rough shot to keep them generally in line with the Canon's, which are set to +25. I expect the Sony tint will
...Show more

As a follow up, I've further reduced the tint on Sony output from +47 to +40. Pretty much satisfied the Sony & Canon shots are color balanced close enough to not notice. Canon is +25, Sony is +40.

On another front, when they open the roof the color temp changes enough to require resetting it in LR from 4700 to 5200 for the files from both bodies.



Sep 14, 2019 at 12:51 PM
teddoman
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


fhammond wrote:
Ok, specific question for the A9 users: how are the ergonomics compared to the 1D X, particularly with long lenses attached? I've used an A9 (and 1D X) before and I found that my knuckles hit larger lenses on the A9 and that for holding for an extended period, the camera was fairly uncomfortable. That's probably the main thing holding me back from selling all my camera gear and switching. The A7 IV looks to have addressed some of those issues. I'll be interested to see if it's got good focus performance 'though I really don't want to deal with
...Show more
Sony does seem to like having the same body and battery grip for each generation of cameras, so if the changes on the A7RIV body are adequate for you, then the A9 II should be the same. Who knows when that'll be though.




Sep 17, 2019 at 03:45 AM
schlotz
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · More Soccer w/Sony A9+FE 400 2.8 Final input 10/29


FINAL UPDATE 10/29: Revised 11/21 see #9

The soccer season is quickly winding down. Looking back at how the Sony A9s plus native lenses compared to the equivalent Canon equipment I'm convinced the move was a positive one. Getting past the weight reduction (which I really enjoy) the ease of operating the Sony A9 rigs has been remarkable. So what are the learnings I went through?

1. The EVF is different than an optical one. Yes, I did get used to it and setting the 'Finder Frame Rate' to HI vs STD helped!

2. Eye-Af & tracking is great for isolated times where a single or two players are involved but it quickly breaks down when many bodies are close together - this is in reference to soccer. It works remarkably well for sports like tennis, baseball, golf, track & field but for soccer its best to stay with a single small flex focal point.

3. The A9 does hold on to focus better. Canon had that random knack of getting 1-2 frames OOF in the middle of a sequence and that hasn't been the case with the Sonys.

4. I wear glasses with a lanyard and remove them when shooting. The issue was, I needed them to review for potential keepers on the back screen. Not necessary since you can review in the viewfinder as well.

5. I really missed the red focal point of Canon which was a help when shooting in darker surroundings or players with solid darker jerseys. The latest firmware 6.0 added that to the A9. Now I see a red focal point and it turns bright green upon focus acquisition.

6. Love the programmability of the Sony A9 which is an improvement vs Canon except for one omission which I've passed along to my Sony rep. Canon has the ability to set its mFN button to cycle through saved settings C1-3. This was a great feature that allowed you to quickly adjust the camera due to changes in shooting conditions without removing your eye from the viewfinder. Sony forces you to go through a cumbersome multiple button sequence in order to accomplish the same thing.

7. At least in my venue (Lucas Oil Stadium) Sony files require different processing than Canon in regards to some color tinting i.e removing a slight green cast. Turns out it is relatively simple to correct but getting it to an automated process so it didn't force additional editing time took a bit to figure out.

8. Glass: I have found no difference in native vs Canon specifically in regard to 400 ƒ/2.8, 100-400, 70-200 & 24-105. Very pleased with Sony glass.

9. C3 is used to select files to lock. This is fine until you have a heavy lens attached where using the left hand to support the rig is important so not to put undo amount of stress on the lens mount. With that, the C3 button makes selecting awkward and wastes the precious little time in between action on the field. I haven't found a way to program a different button, i.e. C1 would be ideal since your right hand can be used.

REVISED: come to find out 'Custom Playback' allows you to define a few different buttons that can be set to file lock, one of which is the Fn button and I've now added that.

10. Lastly, the exposure compensation dial does not have a lock on it, thus it easily can get bumped throwing off exposure and forcing you to verify each time you pick it up. I see that has been fixed with the upcoming A9II. Speaking of which, IMO what changes/upgrades they've done with the A9II are just not a compelling argument for me to upgrade. At this point I'm waiting for vIII.







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5. Outside, marginal lighting, cropped 53%



Edited on Nov 21, 2019 at 09:26 AM · View previous versions



Oct 29, 2019 at 11:20 AM
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