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Archive 2019 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera

  
 
bobby350z
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p.18 #1 · p.18 #1 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
My point had been you can f-up the bokeh from any lens by making poor background, distance, and lighting choices.


Well said.




Jul 16, 2019 at 07:17 PM
Makten
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p.18 #2 · p.18 #2 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
The performance of the GF lenses aligns well with my subject and distance choices. If it doesn't for you, then sure, you should look elsewhere, perhaps even to another system. (GF 110 is $2,300 right now, not $3K BTW.)


highdesertmesa wrote:
Anyway, I still don't see what he's talking about – this "bad transition zone" – looks fine to me. My point had been you can f-up the bokeh from any lens by making poor background, distance, and lighting choices.


OTOH you are happy with adapted lenses that show obvious flaws, so I'm not surprised.

My point is that most people getting into medium format probably want the best rendering and image quality they can get, and that the 110 is far from "perfect".
The harsh transition zone is definitely there, whether you can see it or not. If it's not a problem for you, good for you.
For me, the f-up bokeh moments happen very often because I want the background to be close to the subject, and therefore I prefer some lenses that others find "bad" (they are often less sharp and/or have harsher bokeh).

Now, enough of this and sorry for all the OT.

Edit: Just an example of an image where a harsh transition would be very visible. This is the GF 45 @ f/4 and the background is so close that you really want it to be smooth.


3221 by Martin Hertsius, on Flickr



Jul 17, 2019 at 01:59 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.18 #3 · p.18 #3 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Makten wrote:
OTOH you are happy with adapted lenses that show obvious flaws, so I'm not surprised.

My point is that most people getting into medium format probably want the best rendering and image quality they can get, and that the 110 is far from "perfect".
The harsh transition zone is definitely there, whether you can see it or not. If it's not a problem for you, good for you.
For me, the f-up bokeh moments happen very often because I want the background to be close to the subject, and therefore I prefer some lenses that others find "bad"
...Show more

Love me some GF 45 – great lens. But you might be the only person on the planet with a major aversion to the output from the GF 110. I'm no Bokeh Genius™, but the GF 110 might be one of the best modern lenses ever made.

https://despair.com/products/dysfunction
















Pay more attention to your subject matter than to your bokeh









Jul 19, 2019 at 05:42 PM
Makten
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p.18 #4 · p.18 #4 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
But you might be the only person on the planet with a major aversion to the output from the GF 110.


I don't have a major aversion to the output from the GF110. It has a harsh transition zone and I prefer lenses that don't have that. It would only show up in the truck image, and while I can't see anything wrong with it, it's stopped down to f/3.2 which most likely makes it better.

I'm not interested in the best lenses ever made. I'm interested in the best lenses for my purposes and my taste.



Jul 20, 2019 at 05:58 PM
DougDolde
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p.18 #5 · p.18 #5 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


I'm glad to be done with medium format including this one. The Nikon D850 is better than most digital backs of not too many years ago. I shot a Phase One IQ180 for several years and the D850 is better in every respect other than resolution. Better DR, long exposure capability, not to mention an order of magnitude less expensive.


Jul 22, 2019 at 02:27 PM
jfew
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p.18 #6 · p.18 #6 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Has anyone who pre-ordered from Adorama received their GFX 100 yet? If so, how soon after they started accepting pre-orders did you place yours?


Jul 23, 2019 at 03:55 PM
AZSteve
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p.18 #7 · p.18 #7 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


I received a camera from Adorama in the first tranche. I don't recall definitely, but I probably pre-ordered very shortly after it became possible. It's my first Fuji camera; no problems so far.


Jul 23, 2019 at 04:41 PM
mkuznicki
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p.18 #8 · p.18 #8 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


DougDolde wrote:
I'm glad to be done with medium format including this one. The Nikon D850 is better than most digital backs of not too many years ago. I shot a Phase One IQ180 for several years and the D850 is better in every respect other than resolution. Better DR, long exposure capability, not to mention an order of magnitude less expensive.


You're ignoring the superiority of the Fuji wide-to-normal glass. I have a D850, and you have some valid points. But (since getting my 50R) I very rarely shoot Nikon glass shorter than 70mm any more. Do a direct comparison between a D850 and a GFX with native lenses at any focal length between 18 and 50 (in full frame terms) and tell me what you think.



Edited on Jul 23, 2019 at 05:40 PM · View previous versions



Jul 23, 2019 at 04:59 PM
Etherton
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p.18 #9 · p.18 #9 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


The D850 has better long exposure and better DR than the 50S/R? Having owned both I am not so sure I agree. Comparable, yes. Anyone else agree with that? And, @mmm55 is absolutely right on the Fuji ergonomics and build quality - they're second to none.


Jul 23, 2019 at 05:22 PM
Avbjessup
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p.18 #10 · p.18 #10 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Etherton wrote:
The D850 has better long exposure and better DR than the 50S/R? Having owned both I am not so sure I agree. Comparable, yes. Anyone else agree with that? And, @mmm55@ is absolutely right on the Fuji ergonomics and build quality - they're second to none.


I shot extensively with the D850, professionally, for a little over a year. I just received my GFX 100 today! (Ordered from Henry’s in Canada). I can report on comparisons between studio and location results from and in my own experience.



Jul 23, 2019 at 09:09 PM
AZSteve
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p.18 #11 · p.18 #11 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


This isn't very responsive, but I've been using LR and C1 to handle GFX 100 RAFs in the normal way, and not run into any problems that would drive me to a camera-manufacturer-supplied raw converter.


Jul 24, 2019 at 08:08 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.18 #12 · p.18 #12 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Makten wrote:
I don't have a major aversion to the output from the GF110. It has a harsh transition zone and I prefer lenses that don't have that. It would only show up in the truck image, and while I can't see anything wrong with it, it's stopped down to f/3.2 which most likely makes it better.

I'm not interested in the best lenses ever made. I'm interested in the best lenses for my purposes and my taste.


I think we're all interested in the best lenses for our own purposes, but don't turn this into me trying to convince you that the 110 is good for you – this was you trying to explain that the 110 has a "bad transition zone". I've still yet to see examples of this mysterious issue. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but you're not communicating it with examples that lead to understanding. But I have a feeling instead of getting examples, I'm going to get some sort of "it's not worth my time" response.



Jul 24, 2019 at 09:03 AM
k-h.a.w
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p.18 #13 · p.18 #13 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
I think we're all interested in the best lenses for our own purposes, but don't turn this into me trying to convince you that the 110 is good for you – this was you trying to explain that the 110 has a "bad transition zone". I've still yet to see examples of this mysterious issue. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but you're not communicating it with examples that lead to understanding. But I have a feeling instead of getting examples, I'm going to get some sort of "it's not worth my time" response.


Hi there neighbor.

Considering what the GF110 f/2 was designed for it seems exceptional to me.
No complaints here. Using the right tool for the job ...

K-H.



Jul 24, 2019 at 09:26 AM
Makten
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p.18 #14 · p.18 #14 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
I think we're all interested in the best lenses for our own purposes, but don't turn this into me trying to convince you that the 110 is good for you –


I didn't.

this was you trying to explain that the 110 has a "bad transition zone". I've still yet to see examples of this mysterious issue. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but you're not communicating it with examples that lead to understanding. But I have a feeling instead of getting examples, I'm going to get some sort of "it's not worth my time" response.

Why should I seek the internet for examples because you cannot see what I have seen? I did give you one example where it's clearly visible, but you still didn't see it. This is not my problem. The lens has a harsh transition zone and it bothers me enough to be very much less willing to buy it.

If you don't mind it, good for you. Of course it's not worth my time to try to convince someone that has already decided how the lens performs.



Jul 24, 2019 at 10:31 AM
mjm6
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p.18 #15 · p.18 #15 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Makten wrote:
I didn't.

Why should I seek the internet for examples because you cannot see what I have seen? I did give you one example where it's clearly visible, but you still didn't see it. This is not my problem. The lens has a harsh transition zone and it bothers me enough to be very much less willing to buy it.

If you don't mind it, good for you. Of course it's not worth my time to try to convince someone that has already decided how the lens performs.


Seriously, though, from everything you say, it feels like you should be shooting film with LF lenses. They, more than any of the modern over-corrected optics, have the characteristics that you are looking for.

Go back to LF, or if you haven't used it before, try a 4x5 and some good quality lenses (relatively modern, but not the uber-corrected digital LF lenses) with some color print film or maybe Astia in the QL packs.

I believe that will get you everywhere you want to go with respect to this specific issue.



Jul 24, 2019 at 11:41 AM
highdesertmesa
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p.18 #16 · p.18 #16 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Makten wrote:
I didn't.

Why should I seek the internet for examples because you cannot see what I have seen? I did give you one example where it's clearly visible, but you still didn't see it. This is not my problem. The lens has a harsh transition zone and it bothers me enough to be very much less willing to buy it.

If you don't mind it, good for you. Of course it's not worth my time to try to convince someone that has already decided how the lens performs.


You have no responsibility to do so, but it would be helpful to the rest of us who don't see it: Something like, "In the example link, it's the area of the background between the model's waist and knees".

Also I guess I got confused along the way – is this something you only see at f/2 or stopped down? I thought you originally said when stopped down at mid-distance, but then later in response to my truck example, you said it looked ok because I stopped it down.

I wonder if what you're seeing is the effect of photographers using Clarity, Dehaze, or Contrast (or any combination thereof). Even modest adjustments to these can completely change the character of background bokeh. The example link you provided looked like it had been post-processed with some sort of film style.

Editing this post to add some examples shot at varying distances at f/2 to see if you can help me see examples of a bad transition zone (beginning with macro/ext tube distance then going through to mid-distance). In the last example, which is f/2 at mid-distance, is it the area of bokeh nervousness just above the rocks that you're seeing as a bad transition zone? The Contax 100 f/2 C/Y is definitely a better performer in this situation, but I'm not sure the bokeh of this shot would disqualify the lens for me. I simply don't find this focal length interesting at this distance, but if you do, I can see you wanting another option.





Macro distance with extension tube







Macro distance with extension tube







Close distance with busy, bright background (recipe for bad bokeh)







Somewhere between close and mid-distance







A little further away than previous example







Another at closer mid-distance







Mid-distance



Edited on Jul 24, 2019 at 03:54 PM · View previous versions



Jul 24, 2019 at 03:04 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.18 #17 · p.18 #17 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


k-h.a.w wrote:
Hi there neighbor.

Considering what the GF110 f/2 was designed for it seems exceptional to me.
No complaints here. Using the right tool for the job ...

K-H.


Howdy. I agree. Currently I don't own the 110 and am using the Contax Zeiss 100 f/2 C/Y for that focal length; but, if I needed autofocus, it would certainly be at the top of my list again. Still wishing in vain for a 110 v2 with OIS



Jul 24, 2019 at 03:08 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.18 #18 · p.18 #18 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
Howdy. I agree. Currently I don't own the 110 and am using the Contax Zeiss 100 f/2 C/Y for that focal length; but, if I needed autofocus, it would certainly be at the top of my list again. Still wishing in vain for a 110 v2 with OIS



Thanks, that would be great. I also have the GF120 that has OIS.

K-H.



Jul 24, 2019 at 03:53 PM
Makten
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p.18 #19 · p.18 #19 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


mjm6 wrote:
Seriously, though, from everything you say, it feels like you should be shooting film with LF lenses. They, more than any of the modern over-corrected optics, have the characteristics that you are looking for.

Go back to LF, or if you haven't used it before, try a 4x5 and some good quality lenses (relatively modern, but not the uber-corrected digital LF lenses) with some color print film or maybe Astia in the QL packs.

I believe that will get you everywhere you want to go with respect to this specific issue.


I've shot enough with film to realise that it takes too much time. But yes, older lenses often perform nicer regarding the transition zone. They do often have worse bokeh, though.
The best compromises I've found in modern lenses are the Zeiss Classic ones, and the Loxias.

highdesertmesa wrote:
You have no responsibility to do so, but it would be helpful to the rest of us who don't see it: Something like, "In the example link, it's the area of the background between the model's waist and knees".

Also I guess I got confused along the way – is this something you only see at f/2 or stopped down? I thought you originally said when stopped down at mid-distance, but then later in response to my truck example, you said it looked ok because I stopped it down.

I wonder if what you're seeing is the effect of photographers using Clarity,
...Show more

All of those images are closeups and/or have nothing in the transition zone. Your definition of "mid distance" is obviously not the same as mine (a few meters, at least). I don't even know what you mean with the "area of bokeh nervousness" in the last image. The transition zone is probably somewhere right in the shadow on the ground.
Edit: Now when looking again I can see it in the last shot, but not very clear. There is some nervousness on the ground right behind the shadow, but since there is not much structure there, it's not very noticeable. But, imagine you had foliage or similar at that distance behind the focus plane.

This discussion should have a thread of its own.

Edited on Jul 25, 2019 at 02:27 AM · View previous versions



Jul 24, 2019 at 05:01 PM
highdesertmesa
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p.18 #20 · p.18 #20 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Makten wrote:
I've shot enough with film to realise that it takes too much time. But yes, older lenses often perform nicer regarding the transition zone. They do often have worse bokeh, though.
The best compromises I've found in modern lenses are the Zeiss Classic ones, and the Loxias.

All of those images are closeups and/or have nothing in the transition zone. Your definition of "mid distance" is obviously not the same as mine (a few meters, at least). I don't even know what you mean with the "area of bokeh nervousness" in the last image. The transition zone is probably
...Show more

You're right on that last point, lol. Maybe FM could pull out all our posts on this topic into another thread. I'd hate to start over from scratch.

In the last shot I posted, the plant a little over 2m tall, so I'm not sure how much farther I'd have to back up to find "mid-distance" where bokeh still plays a role – perhaps where a model only fills up 2/3 or less of the vertical frame? I think the 110 focal length (not necessarily the GF lens itself) on 44x33 is not the ideal choice for that distance if you're looking for nice bokeh. At that distance I like to see a longer focal length take over and provide some compression to generate a better background rendering.



Jul 24, 2019 at 06:12 PM
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