Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Fuji Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3              18       19       end
  

Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera

  
 
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera
Fujifilm officially released the new GFX100 medium format mirrorless camera today. It's equipped with a 102-megapixel sensor, doubling the megapixel count from previous models, making it the highest resolution mirrorless camera ever.

But that’s not all. The GFX100 is also the first medium format with in-body image stabilization, 4K video, and a phase detection autofocus working from a backlit sensor.

Pre-order it today for expected availability on Jun 27th:

B&H Photo | Amazon ($9,999)

Main specs:
  1. 102MP 43.8 x 32.9mm BSI CMOS Sensor
  2. X-Processor 4 Image Processor
  3. Removable 5.76m-Dot OLED EVF
  4. 3.2" 2.36m-Dot Tilting Touchscreen LCD
  5. DCI 4K30 Video; F-Log Gamma & 10-Bit Out
  6. 5-Axis Sensor-Shift Image Stabilization
  7. 3.76m-Point Phase-Detection Autofocus
  8. ISO 100-12800, Up to 5 fps Shooting
  9. 16-Bit Raw Output, Multi Aspect Ratios
  10. Built-In Battery Grip, 2 x SD Card Slots
  11. Battery 2 x NP-T125 Rechargeable Lithium-Ion, 10.8 VDC, 1230 mAh (Approx. 800 Shots)
  12. Dimensions (W x H x D) 6.15 x 6.44 x 4.05" / 156.2 x 163.6 x 102.9 mm
  13. Weight 3.08 lb / 1400 g (Body with Viewfinder)

































May 23, 2019 at 10:26 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


A few things will be interesting to watch:

1. How much higher with the cost of this thing be by comparison to the current Fujifilm miniMF cameras? (Indications that it will be double the price!

2. How much bigger and heavier will it be and what, aside from the higher MP sensor, will that weight give us?

3. What other manufacturers will soon introduce their miniMF cameras with the same 100MP sensor? Pentax is 9over0due for a refresh, and we can expect a few others, too.

4. How long will Fujifilm be able to sustain the rumored nearly-$10k price, a huge margin above their other miniMF cameras?

5. How long until Fujifilm introduces R and S models using the same sensor? (Fujifilm's typical policy has been to use the same sensor across a generation of cameras — see the XPro2, XT2, etc.)

Dan




Apr 25, 2019 at 09:04 AM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


gdanmitchell wrote:
A few things will be interesting to watch:

1. How much higher with the cost of this thing be by comparison to the current Fujifilm miniMF cameras? (Indications that it will be double the price!

2. How much bigger and heavier will it be and what, aside from the higher MP sensor, will that weight give us?

3. What other manufacturers will soon introduce their miniMF cameras with the same 100MP sensor? Pentax is 9over0due for a refresh, and we can expect a few others, too.

4. How long will Fujifilm be able to sustain the rumored nearly-$10k price, a huge margin above their
...Show more

Re: price – This will likely mark the separation of the GFX hobbyists like myself from pros that have the price difference paid for in a few shoots worth of work. I'd rather own every GF lens plus a ton of vintage lenses for the price difference.

Re: weight – power supply for IBIS and 4K, and heat dissipation for video processing

Re: competitors – I half expect Pentax to throw in the towel like Hasselblad seems to have done. The biggest competitor in the hobbyist/semi-pro segment will be the high-megapixel Canon R, rumored to be 70-100mp with IBIS.

Re: sustaining margin – as long as they can, of course. Likely there will be some huge lens bundle discounts.

Re: time to R/S 100mp – probably mid-2020, but one thing to watch for is what Fujifilm themselves are saying about the 100mp sensor. They say IBIS is needed to get sharp results (let's not get into the roundabout argument of same-size image comparisons versus 1:1 viewing, this is THEIR statement), so they may keep the R/S at a lower resolution provided Sony will produce a 50-65mp BSI sensor for them. The current form factor of the R/S likely cannot support the size and power requirements for IBIS on 44x33.



Apr 25, 2019 at 11:07 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
Re: time to R/S 100mp – probably mid-2020, but one thing to watch for is what Fujifilm themselves are saying about the 100mp sensor. They say IBIS is needed to get sharp results (let's not get into the roundabout argument of same-size image comparisons versus 1:1 viewing, this is THEIR statement), so they may keep the R/S at a lower resolution provided Sony will produce a 50-65mp BSI sensor for them. The current form factor of the R/S likely cannot support the size and power requirements for IBIS on 44x33.


IBIS is only "necessary" in a 100MP camera if you shoot it handheld.

The market for folks shooting 100MP miniMF cameras solely handheld is not large. The potential market for folks shooting 100MP miniMF cameras from the tripod is certainly much larger — includes serous landscape photographers at a minimum.

A landscape photographer friend* who has moved from LF film perhaps a decade ago to Phase One backs, then to Pentax 645z and recently to Fujifilm GFX tells me he isn't going to the 100MP Fujifilm body.

He recently raved about the GFX in person and exchanges among a group of other landscape photographers, and he has been using it with native Fujifilm lenses (32-64 and 100-200) and adapted MF lenses. (One of his recent almost-public "raves" showed photographs he had made on the GFX with adapted lens and an adapter with movements.) He and I have been discussing the pluses/minuses of both FF and miniMF (and larger format) systems for some time. (Some of my posts on the pluses and minuses of various format options partially reflect out discussions.)

Given his enthusiasm for the performance of the GFX, I had recently told him that I thought the 100MP Fujifilm sensor looked interesting and that I wondered if he would be going there when it comes out. His reply surprised me at first, but then not so much as I thought about it.

He related a series of tests that some of his colleagues had done between 80MP Phase One back images and the 50MP 645z images, sized for printing at 30" x 40". Their conclusion was that they could not consistently tell the difference — and this was a group of quite critical photographers doing the comparison.

My friend, in fact, "moved down" from his now 80MP Phase One back system (using a Mamiya MF camera) to the 645z before moving to the GFX. We are part of a small print review group, so I've had the opportunity to closely review some of the test images from his comparisons. (He frequently brings them and asks us "what do you see?" without revealing what we are looking at. This lessens the confirmation bias quite a bit, and the results have been quite informative. Examples have ranged from Phase One back images "down to" images from a Nikon FF system that he was considering for a trip to Antarctica to teach a couple weeks of workshops. His current FF system is from Sony, by the way.)

This doesn't mean, in my view, that a 100MP sensor is worthless. What it does mean, I think, is that the value of 100MP over 50MP is not going to be $5000 for very many people, particularly if it comes at the cost of weight/bulk. It will be worth it to some, but my bet is that this will be a pretty small group.

On the other hand, when a 100MP sensor makes its way into the S and R models at essentially their current list price levels or only a bit higher... few would turn it down. TBH, I'm interested, especially once a few more Fujifilm lenses appear. :-)

Dan



- - -




* Since I get hammered occasionally by a few FM folks (by now I expect it! ;-) ) for not naming some of the photographers I reference in my posts, here are my reasons.

1. I prefer to let them speak for themselves and decide when and where and to whom to speak. Generally speaking they are completely not interested in getting into photo forum wars, and I respect that. When/if they publish articles or public posts on these subjects I will provide references to those.

2. I think these are people whose experience and perspectives carry some weight. I'm positive that if I could name them you would agree.

3. If you have been to a certain California national park and have visited a certain well-known, gallery you have seen prints/books by the folks in my circle.



Apr 25, 2019 at 11:35 AM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


gdanmitchell wrote:
IBIS is only "necessary" in a 100MP camera if you shoot it handheld.

The market for folks shooting 100MP miniMF cameras solely handheld is not large. The potential market for folks shooting 100MP miniMF cameras from the tripod is certainly much larger — includes serous landscape photographers at a minimum.

A landscape photographer friend* who has moved from LF film perhaps a decade ago to Phase One backs, then to Pentax 645z and recently to Fujifilm GFX tells me he isn't going to the 100MP Fujifilm body.

He recently raved about the GFX in person and exchanges among a group
...Show more

Yes, IBIS is only necessary when shooting handheld, but there are plenty of GFX users shooting handheld. I see a lot of handheld portrait work and even street photography. I'm not sure how many people fit into my category, which is landscape handheld at infinity or plant portraiture wide open – probably not as many as tripod. But I will agree that 100mp likely will appeal more to the tripod crowd. That makes Fujifilm's statement about IBIS being required for 100mp curious. I only brought it up to point out that they themselves may limit it to IBIS-only bodies.

I agree on the diminishing returns of 100mp versus 50mp. I think it was in a thread we were both posting in where I mentioned 100mp will probably make a difference only at or over 40x60, and even then the viewing distances will be increasing when you get that large, so will it really matter? I suppose a 60"+ print may show some differences when you can walk up to it in a gallery, but will that be worth double the price for resolution alone?

What I am interested in getting at any resolution is the BSI sensor. Hopefully it will help decrease some of the terrible sensor reflections that can occur when shooting into the sun with the GFX – situations in which a DSLR can shoot with ease. It should also help corner performance on wide angle adapted lenses.

Yes, I won't sneeze at a GFX 100R, and I welcome the ability to extend the reach of my GF 250 via cropping; but, I would still have rather had a lower-resolution sensor that more greatly expanded dynamic range and color IQ.



Apr 25, 2019 at 12:01 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


gdanmitchell wrote:
A few things will be interesting to watch:

1. How much higher with the cost of this thing be by comparison to the current Fujifilm miniMF cameras? (Indications that it will be double the price!

2. How much bigger and heavier will it be and what, aside from the higher MP sensor, will that weight give us?

3. What other manufacturers will soon introduce their miniMF cameras with the same 100MP sensor? Pentax is 9over0due for a refresh, and we can expect a few others, too.

4. How long will Fujifilm be able to sustain the rumored nearly-$10k price, a huge margin above their
...Show more

Here are my thoughts in response to your questions here:

1) It appear that the first camera Fuji is going to offer will go for just under $10,000, but I expect as I outline below that there will be other versions that will be significantly cheaper. We will see a price bump with this new sensor, but the extra cost here is a lot more than the sensor. When some of that stuff is stripped away, the cost will be more like $2,500 or $2,000 I would guess for the new sensor.

2) The first camera they offer will be heavier and bigger, but my guess is that Fuji will make sure it is smaller and lighter than the Pentax 645Z which ought to be pretty easy for them. What else will you get?

Here is a list of things we know will come with this new camera:

100mp sensor - yes that is a lot of resolution, but keep in mind what this will do for using the camera in other modes. You will be able to shoot it in FF 35mm mode and have about a 59.5 MP image. Some people would love to have this camera and use it with FF 35mm lenses quite a bit with that high resolution and it will still be a top performing sensor when used at that size. I would expect both high DR and great high ISO performance even in FF 35mm mode. But there is more it will have about 25.4 MP in APS-C mode and even 22.6 MP in m4/3rds mode and even in these small format modes this sensor will likely be very competitive with the best sensors made for these small formats. That means if someone wants to they could shoot the camera in m4/3rds mode with the GF 250 f/4 and the 1.4X TC and have quite competent very long lens performance.

It will shoot up to 6fps in 44 X 33 format, but likely can shoot much faster in other formats.

It will almost certain have 4K video and with such a big sensor that will be totally new to the video market.

It will have on chip PDAF for much better AF. This will be a huge deal for a lot of people.

It will have back side illumination (BSI) of the sensor which will mean a fast sensor read out and likely some things listed below.

Here is a list of things that we seem quite likely to get with this camera:

IBIS has been rumored and is to be expected I think.

For FF 35mm I believe every sensor that has gone to BSI has also incorporated the Aptina DRX technology which allows about 2/3rd of a stop better high ISO performance. I expect that with this sensor as well. You need more room on the sensor for this technology and BSI allows for that room.

The BSI sensor allows faster reading of the sensor which should translate into less EVF lag and faster refresh. This update in the performance of the EVF would be a nice addition for the camera.

A more effective silent shooting mode. Increasing the speed of the sensor read out should improve the silent shutter mode. We won't get Sony A9 type performance here, but we may well get Sony A7r II and Nikon Z7 performance.

Here is a list of things I expect we will get with this camera:

A higher resolution EVF - possible with the new camera and help justify the price. All Fuji has to do is go with one similar to the new Panasonic S1 series cameras.

High flash sync speed - I think this ought to be possible and nice move up as well.

I expect super fast cards slots and of course two of them either XQD or maybe even the brand new Sony tech.

I think we will likely get a ridiculously high super resolution mode using the IBIS for pixel shift. If you want to print billboards that you can view a foot away this might allow it. More seriously, it will also improve dynamic range and reduce noise in environments when that is important and you can use this mode. Like all such modes I think there will be some serious limitations on when it can be used.

That is an awful lot of stuff added. I think we can expect there will be a smaller body like the current GFX-S that will come out early in 2020 and will have some but not all of this stuff. It may have a lower resolution EVF (perhaps a lot like the current one). It likely will have slower fps. It may have less video capabilities. It likely won't have the super fast cards slots--I would predict just UHS-II. I would expect it to have PDAF, however, and I expect IBIS as well (though I could be wrong about that). I expect it to be about $8,000 although it might well be $7,500. Finally near the end of 2020 I expect an R version, which I think will basically be the same body we have in the GFX-R but with the new sensor. I expect something like 3 or 4 fps, no IBIS, or any of the other goodies, but I do expect PDAF for improved AF. I expect it to go for about $6,000 or maybe $6,500. So, the price increase has to be understood in light of these other likely models, IMO.

3. Pentax will soon introduce a 100MP DSLR as well. I expect it to be about $7,500. As a DSLR I don't expect it to have PDAF. It will be able to shoot 6 fps (if they can get the big mirror moving that fast), and I don't expect IBIS but Pentax does like that technology so you never know. Sensor read out is not such a big deal for this camera neither is 4K video, but I would expect them to offer the video capability. I also expect that DJI will make a Hassy X2D, but I don't expect IBIS with that camera, but I do expect 6fps and PDAF. This will improve that system quite a bit and the better electronic shutter will make the camera more useful with more adapted lenses. I have my doubts about how well Hassy can make the PDAF AF work, but maybe that is unfair. I would expect that camera to be at least $12,000, but maybe they will price it to be competitive with the high end Fuji camera.

4. I would expect in the three year or so cycle before the next generation of GFX cameras come out for Fuji to drop the price on all three cameras by about $1,000. This ought to be possible just through diminishing prices of the sensor as production ramps up. Being Fuji I do expect about 20% off sales from time to time as well. Personally, I will probably get the S version of the camera when I can get it for about $6,500.

5. I have already answered #5 above. I expect an S version announced at least by Q1 2020 and an R version by Q4 2020.

Good questions, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.




Apr 25, 2019 at 12:34 PM
Karmal
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
Yes, IBIS is only necessary when shooting handheld, but there are plenty of GFX users shooting handheld. I see a lot of handheld portrait work and even street photography. I'm not sure how many people fit into my category, which is landscape handheld at infinity or plant portraiture wide open – probably not as many as tripod. But I will agree that 100mp likely will appeal more to the tripod crowd. That makes Fujifilm's statement about IBIS being required for 100mp curious. I only brought it up to point out that they themselves may limit it to IBIS-only bodies.

I agree
...Show more
why the current gfx 50 doesn't have enough qi and dynamic range?




Apr 25, 2019 at 12:36 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Stefano 1967 wrote:
why the current gfx 50 doesn't have enough qi and dynamic range?



We are discussing new sensors, not the current one.



Apr 25, 2019 at 12:49 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Nothing in one of the very long posts above refutes my belief that a $10,000 100MP miniMF camera from Fujifilm is going to have a very small market, all of those interesting features aside.

In fact, several of the points support (and virtually repeat!) much of what I wrote. ;-)

Time will tell.

Dan



Apr 25, 2019 at 01:07 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


gdanmitchell wrote:
Nothing in one of the very long posts above refutes my belief that a $10,000 100MP miniMF camera from Fujifilm is going to have a very small market, all of those interesting features aside.

In fact, several of the points support (and virtually repeat!) much of what I wrote. ;-)

Time will tell.

Dan


Well Dan--and you are obviously speaking about my post--for the record I started writing it before your long second post so it is interesting we agree on many of the points as I think we often do. We disagree, however, on the bottom line as we often do. I think a lot of that is because you said in your first post and reiterated in your second post that it is a $5000 increase in price. One of my major points is that I think that is misleading. I think we are talking about a $2,000 to $2,500 increase in price. Yes, the new camera to which there is not an equivalent is almost $5,000 more than the GFX-S 50, but if Fuji makes a GFX-S type as many of us expect then the actual price increase will likely be more like $2,500 and the camera won't be $10,000. In fact, if Fuji continues with their fairly regular sales, I expect people will be able to pick up the 100mp version of the GFX-S for about $6,500 and the GFX-R 100mp version (if they make one) for about $5,000. That is a far cry from a $10,000 camera. So, the market for a $10,000 camera isn't really the point. I don't think any one will have to actually pay that if they are patient.



Apr 25, 2019 at 01:48 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Steve Spencer wrote:
Well Dan--and you are obviously speaking about my post--for the record I started writing it before your long second post so it is interesting we agree on many of the points as I think we often do. We disagree, however, on the bottom line as we often do. I think a lot of that is because you said in your first post and reiterated in your second post that it is a $5000 increase in price. One of my major points is that I think that is misleading. I think we are talking about a $2,000 to $2,500 increase
...Show more

It also cannot be called a increase in price since it's a new model line selling in parallel to the 50S/R (like going from a 5D body to a 1D body is for Canon). Even at $10K, it's a modest $3500 premium over the 50S launch price of $6500, and for all the reasons you listed, seems justified.



Apr 25, 2019 at 02:46 PM
bobby350z
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Didn't GFX50s start like $6500+. So GFX100 for $10k is not that bad IMHO. And after some time, it will drop. And you will have the bundle deals. If one can afford $6-7k camera, one can afford $10k camera also. Not sure where this only highly paid pro photographers will be able to afford it. Lot of hobbyist who are in bird photography etc walk around with $10k superteles.


Apr 25, 2019 at 02:51 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


gdanmitchell wrote:
Nothing in one of the very long posts above refutes my belief that a $10,000 100MP miniMF camera from Fujifilm is going to have a very small market, all of those interesting features aside.

In fact, several of the points support (and virtually repeat!) much of what I wrote. ;-)

Time will tell.

Dan


I tend to agree about it being a small market, with the caveat that we have yet to see the image IQ from the GFX 100. That could be something that encourages more 50S/R owners to upgrade. From what I've heard, at a 1:1 level, it will look much like a non-X-Trans version of the X-T3, so I'm not sure a 4X version of an X-T3 sensor interests me. Time will tell like you say.



Apr 25, 2019 at 02:52 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


bobby350z wrote:
... Not sure where this only highly paid pro photographers will be able to afford it. Lot of hobbyist who are in bird photography etc walk around with $10k superteles.


50S early adopters are fair game, but a lot of GFX users came in at the 50R price point. There's no way to know how many current GFX owners are thick with cash and how many are at the edge of their budget.



Apr 25, 2019 at 03:00 PM
bobby350z
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


There are always users at different price points. Canon 1 series used to cost what GFX500s started at. Same with Nikon D series. I am pretty sure lot of those sports, bird shooters were not pros. Pros have to make a decision if given body/lens will make a return on investment. Hobbyist don't have to do the same. Do I need GFX50s, probably no but wanted to see what it was and unlike others I will say for some bragging rights also as I was sick of all these FF users saying Fuji APS-C not that good. I know I know I shouldn't worry about what others say. I do like the GFX50s, somethings like AF could be better, hopefully GFX100 solves that. Other is some more faster glass (only 110mm is f2) and need for Fuji T/S.


Apr 25, 2019 at 03:55 PM
JohnDizzo15
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


bobby350z wrote:
Didn't GFX50s start like $6500+. So GFX100 for $10k is not that bad IMHO. And after some time, it will drop. And you will have the bundle deals. If one can afford $6-7k camera, one can afford $10k camera also. Not sure where this only highly paid pro photographers will be able to afford it. Lot of hobbyist who are in bird photography etc walk around with $10k superteles.


Yup. Out the door, my preorder for the 50s came in at just under 9k which included the body, articulating VF, 63/2.8, and extra battery.

I wouldn't be surprised if they offered bundle deals again as others have stated. If the 100s proves to be a big bump in IQ and usability, I'd be content to pay 10.5-11k for a full rig right out of the gate as this is not far off of 9k at all.



Apr 25, 2019 at 04:22 PM
Karmal
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera




highdesertmesa wrote:
We are discussing new sensors, not the current one.

and a question to your statements since you said this



Apr 25, 2019 at 04:44 PM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


Steve Spencer wrote:
Well Dan--and you are obviously speaking about my post--for the record I started writing it before your long second post so it is interesting we agree on many of the points as I think we often do. We disagree, however, on the bottom line as we often do. I think a lot of that is because you said in your first post and reiterated in your second post that it is a $5000 increase in price. One of my major points is that I think that is misleading. I think we are talking about a $2,000 to $2,500 increase
...Show more

1. 10,000-2500=7500. Given that we can currently buy a GFX for well south of $5k (list is higher), that would increase the price of the GFX by 50%. Fujifilm's typical pattern when going to the next sensor platform (x-trans 16MP to 24MP to 26MP) in the same body is to increase the pricing a lot less than that. I'm not buying it, but we'll see.

2. What's more likely is the following scenario. Fujifilm will pick off the small market for their $10k 100MP camera at that list price within a short period after its introduction. Very soon they will find that the price is unsustainable... and that the cost to them for the sensor declines as they and others move to use it in more cameras. The 100MP camera price will drop quickly — first via their typical soon-after-introduction pricing (see the XH1 and the 200mm prime) at first, and eventually by resetting the list price downwards. By then it will also become available at considerably lower prices to those who know where to look and who to ask. (Another of my acquaintances who has a GFX got it for way below the list price in this way — a legitimate price-finding service. Think of those free lens deals. Turns out you didn't necessarily have to buy a lens to get similar pricing on new product.)

3. As a result, by the time a 100MP S comes out, I'd estimate that this first 100MP camera will be available for something like $8000 or even $7500 or less. (Pin that somewhere. It would be fun to come back in about two years and see if I'm right. I'll keep some crow in the freezer just in case.)

4. At that point, Fujifilm will be in a bit of a quandary. Of all of the people who would purchase a 100MP miniMF camera (and by then we should be seeing 70+MP full frame cameras, plus 100MP miniMF systems from other vendors), how many people would pay more for something above the S-style camera? And how much more would they pay? (Or, for that matter, above the price for what is likely to be a forthcoming R-style version at that time.) So, price differential becomes very important. It is likely impossible to raise the price of the 100MP S-equivalent much at all above the current GFX-S pricing — the inflation rate might define the limit. At that point the non-GFX features of the more expensive camera become the only differentiating factors... and some of those features will likely make it into "GFX-S v.2."

We can't know what Fujifilm's thinking is or how this will pan out. Many of the values in my posts and in yours are speculative. But we can look what Fujifilm's typical practices have been and we can look at how camera companies in general price their v.2 products. There are various elements that play into these things, including actual production costs and some marketing questions... but the same factors generally underly them all. For example, increasing the price of a v.2 product too much can put a damper on sales. And very powerful lower level product can undercut sales of a higher end product.

(See what the 5-series bodies did to the old high MP Canon bodies — completely killed them when the photographers who had been the target market realized that the less expensive body produced the same images in the genres where they were typically used. It isn't unreasonable to see a parallel there between the likely capabilities of a 100MP GFX-S v.2 and a more expensive 100MP Fujifilm miniMF camera.)

Finally, again you "go there" with labeling my post "misleading" in your reply. That's always a theme of your replies — as if you think the unwarranted personalization will make your case look stronger. There's nothing "misleading" about a failure to use Steve's Own Special Assumptions in my post, and unless your values are more provable than mine (and I've stipulated that mine are speculative), one could give in to the temptation — but didn't — to make the same contextual point about your post.

I wonder if you could ever, just once, simply reply by saying what you have to say without a backdoor (or sometimes the front door) implication that I'm either unethical or foolish?

Dan



Apr 25, 2019 at 04:46 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


gdanmitchell wrote:
1. 10,000-2500=7500. Given that we can currently buy a GFX for well south of $5k (list is higher), that would increase the price of the GFX by 50%. Fujifilm's typical pattern when going to the next sensor platform (x-trans 16MP to 24MP to 26MP) in the same body is to increase the pricing a lot less than that. I'm not buying it, but we'll see.

2. What's more likely is the following scenario. Fujifilm will pick off the small market for their $10k 100MP camera at that list price within a short period after its introduction. Very soon they will find
...Show more

Dan, it isn't about you; it is about the argument you are making. Saying an argument is misleading is a statement about the argument not a statement about the person making the argument. It is you who tends to be hyper defensive and whenever I point out flaws in your arguments you react by saying it is about you. It really isn't. It is about the arguments you make.

In this case the argument that it is a $5,000 increase in cost for the new camera or that the camera is double the price. That is just a bad argument and isn't true. The current list price of the Fuji GFX-50S is $5,500. There is no way that if a Fuji GFX 100mp camera comes out in the form factor of the current GFX 50s that it will be $11,000 or $10,500 in list price. The current list price of the Fuji GFX 50R is $4,500 and there is also no way that if a Fuji GFX 100 mp camera comes out in the R form factor it will be $9,000 or $9,500 in list price. Any other sort of comparison is comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing a new and very different model with an older different style model. All such comparisons are highly misleading with regard to price. So your claim that the new camera is double in price or $5000 more is misleading and not a sensible comparison. It is comparing apples to oranges. That is all I am saying. It is not a personal attack. I am just pointing out it is a bad argument.



Apr 25, 2019 at 05:20 PM
stevesanacore
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Pre-order: Fuji GFX 100 Medium Format Mirrorless Camera


highdesertmesa wrote:
Re: price – This will likely mark the separation of the GFX hobbyists like myself from pros that have the price difference paid for in a few shoots worth of work. I'd rather own every GF lens plus a ton of vintage lenses for the price difference.

.


Well, even for pro's it's very difficult to justify medium format under most circumstances. I would have a full Phase One tech system if that were the case. I was a large and medium format shooter for decades until digital came along. No doubt the image quality is better, but 99% of clients don't see the difference and certainly don't want to pay for it :-)

Actually I think their market is mostly amateurs, (and pro's like me who have too much GAS).



Apr 25, 2019 at 05:49 PM
1
       2       3              18       19       end






FM Forums | Fuji Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3              18       19       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username      Reset password