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Archive 2019 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?

  
 
chvvkumar
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


Hello all,

Yesterday I was adjusting my setup using Focal. While the bare lens (100-400II on 6D MKII @400mm) was almost spot on for AFMA with Focal only suggesting +1 adjustment, with the 1.4x teleconverter it is a different story.

With the 1.4x, Focal suggests +17 AFMA and with that setting, I can tell the focus is much improved. Now the question is, is it worth sending the 1.4x to Canon (along with the lens and body) for a calibration?

Attached are the Focal results:

With the Teleconverter:





Just the Lens:






Mar 23, 2019 at 06:01 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


That's a large adjustment. Do you have another lens to test it with?

If you send it in, you normally don't include the lens and body. They will almost certainly not be tested together, as each has its own test protocol and specs.

Have you checked the front assembly of the extender? Sometimes it unscrews a bit, which would have to affect the optics. I've occasionally had one loosen up enough that you can feel the wobble when you pick it up (and so you tighten it).



Mar 23, 2019 at 06:15 AM
Andrew J
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


If the converter is over a year old (must have a receipt), it will cost $240 to get the 1.4x close to zero.
If it is under warranty they must fix the converter. It can be a battle with even CPS claiming that a TC doesn't get calibrated.
If another piece of gear in that equation is under warranty they should fix the situation if the TC is sent with that piece of gear. I would only do that as a last resort since the other gear could come back messed up.



Mar 23, 2019 at 06:38 AM
chvvkumar
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


jcolwell wrote:
That's a large adjustment. Do you have another lens to test it with?

If you send it in, you normally don't include the lens and body. They will almost certainly not be tested together, as each has its own test protocol and specs.

Have you checked the front assembly of the extender? Sometimes it unscrews a bit, which would have to affect the optics. I've occasionally had one loosen up enough that you can feel the wobble when you pick it up (and so you tighten it).


Unfortunately, I do not have another lens to try. The last time I sent in my gear (60D and 100-400MkI), I sent them both in for calibration. I checked the TC and it looks and feels solid. No loose screws or elements at all.

---------------------------------------------

Andrew J wrote:
If the converter is over a year old (must have a receipt), it will cost $240 to get the 1.4x close to zero.
If it is under warranty they must fix the converter. It can be a battle with even CPS claiming that a TC doesn't get calibrated.
If another piece of gear in that equation is under warranty they should fix the situation if the TC is sent with that piece of gear. I would only do that as a last resort since the other gear could come back messed up.


I bought the TC used so I do not have the original receipt unfortunately. The only piece still under warranty is the body.



Mar 23, 2019 at 09:06 AM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


I use FoCal as well. I brought this up a few years ago and tried to start a survey but it didn't go anywhere. I have spent a lot of time at this.

I'm at +13 with my 7D2 and +9 with my 5D4. I know of one more person at POTN who is at +13 with his 7D2. Without the TC it is +1 on the 7D2 and +2 on the 5D4. It isn't the TC because I'm at +4 on my 7D2 and -3 on 5D4 with my DO II and the 1.4 II.

I can only conclude that there are a lot of elements in a zoom and even if it all is in spec settings can be at opposite ends of the specs and a TC will amplify this. I'm real picky about MFA and if the body or lens (without a TC) is out more than 7 either way I'll send it in for calibration. While the 100-400 II is TC compatible according to Roger Cicala TC's are tuned for the long primes.

https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2009/01/teleconverters-101/

I wasn't sure what to do in this situation because if I got the body, lens and TC tuned at Canon it will throw off settings when not using the TC so I live with it. +17 is a lot. Is there anyway you can test the TC on another lens to verify it is not the cause?

Two Canon USA service reps told me MFA is for emergencies only and should be sent in. I wouldn't do it for slight adjustments but my 70-200 2.8 II needed +13 without a TC. NJ found the lens had a mis-calibrated board. Not sure how far you want to go with this but maybe send the lens in?



Edited on Mar 23, 2019 at 12:35 PM · View previous versions



Mar 23, 2019 at 10:10 AM
moondigger
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


If the MFA adjustment gets you sharp results, why bother trying to have it factory adjusted? MFA is fully compensating for the issue.


Mar 23, 2019 at 10:35 AM
Andrew J
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


If he knows he will never get another body or lens then you are right.


Mar 23, 2019 at 02:20 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


Doesn't matter if there is another body or lens in the future, the unique combinations could all be off differently, even if you send anything in.


Mar 23, 2019 at 03:46 PM
chvvkumar
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


Zenon Char wrote:
I use FoCal as well. I brought this up a few years ago and tried to start a survey but it didn't go anywhere. I have spent a lot of time at this.

I'm at +13 with my 7D2 and +9 with my 5D4. I know of one more person at POTN who is at +13 with his 7D2. Without the TC it is +1 on the 7D2 and +2 on the 5D4. It isn't the TC because I'm at +4 on my 7D2 and -3 on 5D4 with my DO II and the 1.4 II.

I can only conclude
...Show more

I am fairly sure it is the TC. But since technically +17 is still within the adjustment parameters, I am debating is the ~$250 for the adjustment is worth it. But this is the first time I am hearing AFMA is for emergencies only.
---------------------------------------------

moondigger wrote:
If the MFA adjustment gets you sharp results, why bother trying to have it factory adjusted? MFA is fully compensating for the issue.


---------------------------------------------

Andrew J wrote:
If he knows he will never get another body or lens then you are right.


---------------------------------------------

TeamSpeed wrote:
Doesn't matter if there is another body or lens in the future, the unique combinations could all be off differently, even if you send anything in.


Exactly why I was debating whether it is worth the expense (50% of the cost of the TC) is worth it; especially since the normal AFMA seems to be still within adjustable values. Another thing I did not know was if expansion/contraction due to temperature change the AF so much that the AFMA value needed would exceed the body's ability i.e. there is so little buffer between +17 and +20 that if I need more than +3 AFMA, I will have to send it in.



Mar 23, 2019 at 04:46 PM
Andrew J
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


From summer to winter I see a difference of 2 points on my 800mm.


Mar 23, 2019 at 08:38 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


chvvkumar wrote:
I am fairly sure it is the TC. But since technically +17 is still within the adjustment parameters, I am debating is the ~$250 for the adjustment is worth it. But this is the first time I am hearing AFMA is for emergencies only.
---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

Exactly why I was debating whether it is worth the expense (50% of the cost of the TC) is worth it; especially since the normal AFMA seems to be still within adjustable values. Another thing I did not know was if expansion/contraction due to temperature change the AF so much that the AFMA value needed would
...Show more

That was what they told me at Canon USA. They encouraged me to send my 70-200 2.8 in which was still under warranty.



Mar 24, 2019 at 08:17 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


The 100-400 II is one of the trickier lenses to MFT, with or without a TC.
Although a slow lens, it suffers from focus shift between f/5.6 and f/8, especially at closer distances and 400mm. I calibrate my pair at f/7.1 and ~15 ft. which is a compromise for my usage.

EBH



Mar 24, 2019 at 10:41 PM
JohnSil
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


Andrew J wrote:
If the converter is over a year old (must have a receipt), it will cost $240 to get the 1.4x close to zero.
If it is under warranty they must fix the converter. It can be a battle with even CPS claiming that a TC doesn't get calibrated.
If another piece of gear in that equation is under warranty they should fix the situation if the TC is sent with that piece of gear. I would only do that as a last resort since the other gear could come back messed up.


Why would the other gear come back messed up
For $240, if he has enough Canon gear, he could join CPS at the Platinum level and they might do all the calibrations for free and do it with it within 72 hours!!!
That’s why people have CPS!
John



Mar 24, 2019 at 11:57 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


I’ve never heard of Afma being for emergencies only. That’s some bonkers stuff there.


Mar 25, 2019 at 09:11 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


AFMA is not for emergencies only.

EBH



Mar 25, 2019 at 09:53 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


If my livelihood was based on repairing stuff that people send to me, I'd encourage them to send stuff to me.


Mar 25, 2019 at 09:57 AM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


So I'm not laughed out of here large adjustments indicate something is out. As I stated two separate USA Canon service reps told me +13 was a lot and they said I should send it in and they found a problem. I'm not going to send it in for +-5 but if a big correction is needed then I will. Call Canon. That is what they told me. I didn't come up with that. The TC issue is different issue compared to lens only.

I have to step out but when I get back I'll post something I found that made sense to me.



Mar 25, 2019 at 10:34 AM
juststeve
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


I would check all mount screws, lens, converter and camera mount. If even one is slightly loose it could cause a problem. The amount of strain placed on a converter mount while carrying a lens around all day is considerable.

It is a problem that I have seen with my lenses and converters since I often hike long distances in very rough terrain with camera, converter and lens on my shoulder, on tripod and not.

Interesting, to me anyway, is I have Mark I, II and III 1.4 and 2x converters, purchased from 1990 to a couple of years ago. They all change the AFMA the same over several different lenses. Offhand, I cannot remember if it is +1 or -1. But this is why I recommend first carefully checking the mount screws for looseness.



Mar 25, 2019 at 10:40 AM
Andrew J
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


JohnSil wrote:
Why would the other gear come back messed up
For $240, if he has enough Canon gear, he could join CPS at the Platinum level and they might do all the calibrations for free and do it with it within 72 hours!!!
That’s why people have CPS!
John


I have CPS and had to pay in advance so I doubt that.
Here's how it can get messed up. Sold a friend a mint 70-200 IS L lens. He sent it to Jersey CPS and it came back with vice marks all around the barrel.




Mar 25, 2019 at 11:55 AM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · +17 AFMA with 1.4x and 100-400II, send it in for calibration?


Sections 10, 11 and 12. This is the way I looked at MFA years before I found this. Someone else who looked at it the same way.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-calibrate-lenses

I know I'm in a minority but the way I look at is this is I'm not rich and have to think about buying a lens pretty carefully. The 70-200 2.8 II was a big investment for me. It was +13 out. I know others don't care about that amount but I didn't order a mis-calibrated lens. It wasn't just at one end or the other spec wise, it was out. During my conversations with Canon they told me that was quite a bit. As I said they encouraged me to send it in and they found a problem. During those conversations they told me MFA was for emergencies to get you through and it should be looked at.

I find most modern lens/body combinations are around +3. All mine don't exceed +-5. I view that (even if it a bit more) as fine tuning for spec variation which is normal. I could have just MFA'd my 70-200 and lived with it but why should I? I'm not going cover up for Canon's error.



Mar 25, 2019 at 12:50 PM
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