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Archive 2019 · EM1x Initial AFC test

galenapass
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Settings were:
C-AF
C-AF Sensitivity +2
C-AF Center start (default settings)
C-AF Center priority (default settings)
Sequential low
ISO 400
Shutter - 1/500
lens 40-150 @ 110mm f/2.8
Aperture priority
IS - AUTO

These are 2 "pictures" (sets of crops) with sequential shots as my son ran towards me. The correct order is from top to bottom in the first column of the first set of crops, then top to bottom in the second column, etc...then move on to the next set of crops in the same order. In the second set the series starts where it ended in the first set of crops, read top to bottom, left to right. Be sure to distinguish between the different crop sets, it is easy to read down column wise all the way to the bottom and mix up the sequence.

[EDIT - please look at the other series below. The lesson here was to not use default settings that come with the camera]

Edited on Mar 23, 2019 at 12:13 AM · View previous versions

Mar 22, 2019 at 01:53 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · EM1x Initial AFC test

For a $3000 camera, I am not impressed to say the least. Any suggestions are welcome. I will keep working on this. I have not tried the tracking mode yet.

[EDIT] - lets not rule out user error just yet. Next week I will be in Seattle on vacation. I can take easily shots of gulls flying there, not so easy here in Colorado.

[2nd EDIT - look at examples below. Things look MUCH better]

Edited on Mar 22, 2019 at 10:24 PM · View previous versions

Mar 22, 2019 at 01:54 PM

Paul_100A
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · EM1x Initial AFC test

galenapass wrote:
For a $3000 camera, I am not impressed to say the least. Any suggestions are welcome. I will keep working on this. I have not tried the tracking mode yet.

Ideally, Z-axis (subject heading straight towards camera) is what +TR is for.
you have Center Start and Center Priority on. Are you sure you had the subject on the center AF target for all frames.
do you zoom mid-burst?
* I saw your CAF 'center' start/priority warning post at DPReview.
I did not comment because I have only used Single AF Target so far. No BIFs yet.

Keep working and keep us informed.

Mar 22, 2019 at 02:18 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Paul_100A wrote:
Ideally, Z-axis (subject heading straight towards camera) is what +TR is for.
you have Center Start and Center Priority on. Are you sure you had the subject on the center AF target for all frames.
do you zoom mid-burst?
* I saw your CAF 'center' start/priority warning post at DPReview.
I did not comment because I have only used Single AF Target so far. No BIFs yet.

Keep working and keep us informed.

I will try +TR next
I tried to keep the shirt writing in the center of the frame
No zoom mid burst but I did lift the shutter button to the half depressed position. Then restarted picture taking.
Not sure who was on DPReview but it was not me.

Mar 22, 2019 at 02:26 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Looking more carefully at the AF start settings, I think I need to try the 5x5 grid. Others have posted on the internet that they get the best results with that setting.

Mar 22, 2019 at 02:32 PM

James Farrell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · EM1x Initial AFC test

To Galenapass: Sorry, but I think some of your chocies were not the best. And your simple test is not conclusive to me.
1. What you don't specify is what AF focus pattern you were using. And what was your starting AF target?
2. You specify you used +2 sensitivity. If you used a group pattern, it is possible, and perhaps likey, that the AF system detected some strong specular highlights within your focus target area that attracted the AF, something with high contrast and decided to pick up that object(s) for focus. In other words, too much AF sensitivity which would cause the AF system to pick up something else instead of staying with your target - would suggest you try sensitivity of "0" or maybe "minus 1". If you were using a single point, you must have not kept your focus point on the lettering of the T shirt.
3. RE Center Start and Center Priority - you cannot have both working at the same time. Center Start negates or turns off Center Priority (see the manual page 483 at the bottom) Suggests using Center Priority (which is the default) for most situations. Assuming the words on his T-shirt was your target, try to keep that in a small focus group like 5-cross or 3X3 square. Keep in mind that Center Priority does not guarantee that the AF system will stick with the center-most point in your AF pattern if there is something that the AF system sees that has higher contrast than the letter on the T-shirt.
4. I assume you did not zoomed in/out while shooting C-AF, I don't think the camera will AF properly when zooming.

Edited on Mar 22, 2019 at 03:03 PM · View previous versions

Mar 22, 2019 at 02:53 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · EM1x Initial AFC test

James Farrell wrote:
To Galenapass: Sorry, but I think some of your chocies were not the best. And your simple test is not conclusive to me.
1. What you don't specify is what AF focus pattern you were using. And what was your starting AF target?
2. You specify you used +2 sensitivity. If you used a group pattern, it is possible, and perhaps likey, that the AF system detected some strong specular highlights within your focus target area that attracted the AF, something with high contrast and decided to pick up that object(s) for focus. In other words, too much AF sensitivity which...Show more →

Yes, it is not conclusive to me either. Good suggestions I will retry today, if I can get my teenager to cooperate.

I am 100% sure there was no zooming during the shots. I also tried +1, 0, -1 and -2 settings as well. +1 and +2 were similar, others were worse.

Mar 22, 2019 at 02:58 PM

Paul_100A
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · EM1x Initial AFC test

galenapass wrote:
I will try +TR next
I tried to keep the shirt writing in the center of the frame
No zoom mid burst but I did lift the shutter button to the half depressed position. Then restarted picture taking.
Not sure who was on DPReview but it was not me.

my bad...it was another user with G for first initial https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62459730
weird why blocky boldly highlighted lettering showed up...not my intention. sorry.

Mar 22, 2019 at 04:05 PM

brianric
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Dumb question. I have two E-M1 Mk II and a E-M1X. Why would I use +TR when a subject is heading straight towards me?

Paul_100A wrote:
Ideally, Z-axis (subject heading straight towards camera) is what +TR is for.
you have Center Start and Center Priority on. Are you sure you had the subject on the center AF target for all frames.
do you zoom mid-burst?
* I saw your CAF 'center' start/priority warning post at DPReview.
I did not comment because I have only used Single AF Target so far. No BIFs yet.

Keep working and keep us informed.

Mar 22, 2019 at 04:21 PM

James Farrell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · EM1x Initial AFC test

galenapass wrote:
Yes, it is not conclusive to me either. Good suggestions I will retry today, if I can get my teenager to cooperate.

I am 100% sure there was no zooming during the shots. I also tried +1, 0, -1 and -2 settings as well. +1 and +2 were similar, others were worse.
About a week ago or so I took my new EM1X and my 40-150 f/2.8 Pro to a local "Dog Park" here where I live in Arizona. I'm not a dog owner, but visit this park from time to time to practice and test C-AF settings and techniques. Dog owners are constantly tossing tennis balls and having their pets chase after them. Dogs running crazy and jumping around all over the place as they play and socialize. They make good AF test subjects (i.e., like BIFs but with four legs and a bark). The pace gets a little crazy when there are a lot of dogs around.

Anyway, what I found to be the most successful was to use a 5-cross or 3x3 square pattern and AF Center Priority (meaning priority of the center of the pattern even if the pattern was offset from the center ofthe frame). The percentage of sharp shots was higher than when I did the same kind of testing and practice shooting with the EM1-Mark II and same lens in previous visits. The EM1X AF is better. What is not better is my keeping the AF pattern on the subject at hand as they race about. But that's my problem, not the camera's.

I am still trying to sort out the best sensitivity settings. I am sure that negative numbers slow the C-AF system down, and I think at times that works best. (Full disclosure: I am NOT a BIF shooter as I have no interest in that). There are lots of shot sequences when one dog would interfere (or an owner would walk) between me and my subject. I noted that a higher sensitivty, i.e., +1 or +2, resulted in AF getting lost due to similar subjects with similar contrast levels all about in a scene. The camera simply cannot think for me. The best success was the smaller AF target patterns and minus 1 senstivity with AF Center Priority. I also tried some custom shapes that were two focus sqaures high and nearly the whole width of the available focus points. That did not work well as focus was too unpredicable - simply too many similar targets in the frame. And the wide pattern is harder to use because I could not deermine when a subject was outside of the border of my custom pattern. As much as we want the AF system to be intelligent, it still cannot think for us. So, the smaller, tighter patterns work best if your technique of keeping the focus targets on your subject as it moves is solid. Mine needs improvement.

Late Edit - I used Electronic shutter at 10fps. For all of this testing.

AF of the dogs head. What impressed me was the AF stayed with the dog and did not drift to the play fire truck in the background that has much higher contrast.

Doggie moving in and out of shadows. I had lost focus before this when I moved the AF pattern off the dog. It took two frames to reacquire focus once I focused on the dog again.

Throughout this sequence I was zooming out from 150mm to about 75mm all the while continuing to AF and shoot.

Mar 22, 2019 at 04:47 PM

Paul_100A
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · EM1x Initial AFC test

brianric wrote:
Dumb question. I have two E-M1 Mk II and a E-M1X. Why would I use +TR when a subject is heading straight towards me?

I asked an Olympus Technical advisor, while attending an EM1X launch, what exactly +TR was designed for as there is a lot of confusion and negative opinion on +TR.
I was told that +TR is designed for Z-axis (subject coming straight towards the cameras). when panning do not use +TR.
the advice is for both the 1X and the mk2.

Mar 22, 2019 at 07:35 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Settings were:
C-AF
C-AF Sensitivity +2
C-AF Center start -5x5 grid
C-AF Center priority - turned off
Sequential low
ISO 640
Shutter - 1/3200
lens 40-150 @ 90mm f/2.8
Aperture priority
IS - AUTO

Center of frame was on shirt letters/design

No zooming during shot sequence.

These are 3 "pictures" (sets of crops) with sequential shots as my son ran towards me. The correct order is from top to bottom in the first column of the first set of crops, then top to bottom in the second column, etc...then move on to the next set of crops in the same order. In the second set the series starts where it ended in the first set of crops, read top to bottom, left to right. Then on to the third set. Be sure to distinguish between the different crop sets, it is easy to read down column wise all the way to the bottom and mix up the sequence.

Edited on Mar 23, 2019 at 10:39 AM · View previous versions

Mar 22, 2019 at 10:15 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Settings were:
C-AF
C-AF Sensitivity +2
C-AF Center start turned off
C-AF Center priority -5x5 grid
Sequential low
ISO 640
Shutter - 1/3200
lens 40-150 @ 90mm f/2.8
Aperture priority
IS - AUTO

Center of frame was on shirt letters/design

No zooming during shot sequence.

These are 3 "pictures" (sets of crops) with sequential shots as my son ran towards me. The correct order is from top to bottom in the first column of the first set of crops, then top to bottom in the second column, etc...then move on to the next set of crops in the same order. In the second set the series starts where it ended in the first set of crops, read top to bottom, left to right. Then on to the third set. Be sure to distinguish between the different crop sets, it is easy to read down column wise all the way to the bottom and mix up the sequence.

Edited on Mar 23, 2019 at 10:39 AM · View previous versions

Mar 22, 2019 at 10:19 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Settings were:
C-AF
C-AF Sensitivity +2
C-AF Center start -5x5 grid
C-AF Center priority -5x5 grid
Sequential low
ISO 640
Shutter - 1/3200
lens 40-150 @ 90mm f/2.8
Aperture priority
IS - AUTO

Center of frame was on shirt letters/design

No zooming during shot sequence.

These are 3 "pictures" (sets of crops) with sequential shots as my son ran towards me. The correct order is from top to bottom in the first column of the first set of crops, then top to bottom in the second column, etc...then move on to the next set of crops in the same order. In the second set the series starts where it ended in the first set of crops, read top to bottom, left to right. Then on to the third set. Be sure to distinguish between the different crop sets, it is easy to read down column wise all the way to the bottom and mix up the sequence.

Edited on Mar 23, 2019 at 10:40 AM · View previous versions

Mar 22, 2019 at 10:21 PM

ELinder
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · EM1x Initial AFC test

What were the rest of your shooting settings, aperture, shutter speed, etc?

Doh, it'd help if I read all the text first.

Erich

Edited on Mar 23, 2019 at 11:45 AM · View previous versions

Mar 22, 2019 at 10:58 PM

James Farrell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Looks much better. What do you think? Would suggest you check the add EXIF info and provide shooting info too.

Mar 22, 2019 at 10:58 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · EM1x Initial AFC test

James Farrell wrote:
Looks much better. What do you think? Would suggest you check the add EXIF info and provide shooting info too.

Yes - looks much better. I think the key here is to use the appropriate grid pattern. It does not seem to make a lot of difference if C-AF Center start or C-AF Center priority is on. However, if they are both on, the number of in-focus shots does appear to decline slightly. No sure if that is real or not. My next step will be some BIF shots and playing with AF sensitivity plus the grid pattern. I remember when the 1DIII came out and many people had issues with that camera. Canon had to publish a white paper on how to set the AF up. I read that carefully and never had an issue - though I know many had legitimate malfunctioning AF - much of the bad rap for that camera came from folks not setting it up carefully.. Great camera. I wonder if the EM1x will be similar. Olympus default setting are terrible.

Edited on Mar 23, 2019 at 12:22 AM · View previous versions

Mar 23, 2019 at 12:04 AM

brianric
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Paul_100A wrote:
I asked an Olympus Technical advisor, while attending an EM1X launch, what exactly +TR was designed for as there is a lot of confusion and negative opinion on +TR.
I was told that +TR is designed for Z-axis (subject coming straight towards the cameras). when panning do not use +TR.
the advice is for both the 1X and the mk2.

That still doesn't answer the question. If subject is coming straight at me and I'm able to keep say single or five point on the target, what advantage does +TR gives me. I always thought +TR would be used say at a soccer or rodeo where there would be erratic movement from the subject.

Mar 23, 2019 at 12:10 AM

Paul_100A
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · EM1x Initial AFC test

when set to +TR and with the background unchanging during the burst sequence the camera is better able to analyze the target area only in order to calculate/apply its predictive AF.
On Z-axis the background remains (relatively) unchanged while the subject is getting nearer(larger) and therefore changing.
When panning the background is constantly changing while the subject remains (relatively) unchanged.
Two different scenarios. one for +TR and one for just CAF.
This is what I was told. I am just passing along information. I have not tested or confirmed.

brianric wrote:
That still doesn't answer the question. If subject is coming straight at me and I'm able to keep say single or five point on the target, what advantage does +TR gives me. I always thought +TR would be used say at a soccer or rodeo where there would be erratic movement from the subject.

Mar 23, 2019 at 08:54 AM

galenapass
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · EM1x Initial AFC test

Paul_100A wrote:
when set to +TR and with the background unchanging during the burst sequence the camera is better able to analyze the target area only in order to calculate/apply its predictive AF.
On Z-axis the background remains (relatively) unchanged while the subject is getting nearer(larger) and therefore changing.
When panning the background is constantly changing while the subject remains (relatively) unchanged.
Two different scenarios. one for +TR and one for just CAF.
This is what I was told. I am just passing along information. I have not tested or confirmed.

+TR is definitely something to look at and figure out when/where it will be useful. I have seen several reviews stating that it did not work well. However, there are a lot of parameters that can be set on this camera, so the possibility of having something set wrong is there. Look at the first series of AFC tests that I did in this thread. Those were done with default Olympus values and the results were terrible.

Mar 23, 2019 at 10:31 AM

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