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Archive 2019 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

brafman
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

AGeoJO wrote:
That’s a good point, Fred. As Luis @GabrielPhoto@ showed it in his recent video review, the Canon EF version plus MC-11 doesn’t have any issues focusing under low light lighting conditions, like Manny reported in his comparison with of the GM.

As someone who just acquired the FE version on the assumption that it would, if anything, have better AF performance, I find this to be annoying news. In fact, when Sigma announced the FE versions, I'm pretty sure they said something about better AF. If the FE has issues the adapted lens doesn't, I hope Sigma issues a firmware update to bring the FE version up to snuff.

Mar 13, 2019 at 06:28 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Fred Miranda wrote:
Both lenses are undoubtably high IQ but according to Roger's 100lp/mm numbers, the GM will perform significantly better with future higher megapixel sensors compared to the competition. I guess we'll have to wait for Sony next generation high resolution body to test this out!

Fred,
Based on the MTF lab results Roger did, yes, but how much that is translated into real-life condition rendition-wise remains to be seen. And yes, I would like to see sharp eyes and eye lashes even using the current crop of cameras. It is a good feeling to be able to count those individual eyelashes

.

GMPhotography wrote:
Just the AF motors in the Sony are fascinating. I think they will actually get even better with new technology going into the bodies to take advantage of how efficient they can be. My bet there is a lot of headroom to go even faster than can be done with the A9 today. Also it’s a model that can be used in more longer lens builds. Yea that 200 F2

I had the Sigma outside the AF problems I had back than it did render very nicely. That was never my issue with it. To be honest it was the...Show more →

Guy,
I remembered that you actually bought yours shortly before I did and that you posted your enthusiasm about that lens while I was still waiting for mine to arrive... While Sony is at is, why stop at f/2 for the 200mm? The first fast 200mm that Canon made back then was an f/1.8....

.

brafman wrote:
As someone who just acquired the FE version on the assumption that it would, if anything, have better AF performance, I find this to be annoying news. In fact, when Sigma announced the FE versions, I'm pretty sure they said something about better AF. If the FE has issues the adapted lens doesn't, I hope Sigma issues a firmware update to bring the FE version up to snuff.

Manny Rios did the comparison between the Sigma FE and the GM lens and noticed that the FE is slower in acquiring focus under low lighting conditions. More recently, Luis tested his, mimicking the conditions that Manny’s copy encountered focusing issues and found his, which is a Canon EF version, didn’t seem to show that issue. So far, nobody has directly compared the Canon EF with the FE version. So, I am not sure at this point.

But for sure, under normal and real-life shooting conditions, neither version should have any issues focusing. I never did but as I mentioned either above or in a different thread, I don’t take pictures inside dark closets. So, yours should be fine. And believe me, it is an awesome lens, especially considering the price difference. FYI, the cost of a brand new GM is more than double that of a used Canon EF version

Mar 13, 2019 at 07:27 AM

Charlie N
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

The quality of the Sigma is amazing, AF, well below average.

Mar 13, 2019 at 07:30 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Charlie N wrote:
The quality of the Sigma is amazing, AF, well below average.

Well below average, huh? What are its peers? There are two other AF lenses that are either in native E-mount or adaptable for the Sony E-mount in the same FL; the Batis 135mm f/2.8 and Canon EF 135mm f/2. The AF of the Batis is definitely more responsive but that of the Canon EF lens is approximately the same.

Mar 13, 2019 at 07:53 AM

GHarris
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Charlie N wrote:
The quality of the Sigma is amazing, AF, well below average.

When I was considering buying the Sigma 135 (I ended up getting the EF mount version), discussion about its AF performance was confusing. Some comments and reviews said its AF was poor when used with the MC-11 adapter. Other forum discussions said its AF was quite good.

Eventually I realised that most of the differences came down to whether the comments were written before or after the firmware updates for the MC-11 and the lens - which came some months or maybe a year after the Sigma 135's release, and made a big difference to AF performance.

It was all academic to me as I was using a camera body with very slow autofocus, but I wanted to be thorough in knowing what I was getting before buying!

Going off topic, but coming around to a compliment for the Sigma...

The sharpness scores of the new Sony GM 135 are very impressive. I was surprised. I thought at most it could only be "as sharp as the Sigma, just about"... or maybe a tad less... given that the Sigma was famously about as good as any lens - remarkably sharp compared to any lens of any focal length. Sony did very very well indeed to make something even sharper.

I wouldn't have waited and bought the Sony if I had known, though. Epicly sharp (the Sigma) is good enough for me (epic++ is no bad thing but... I'm OK with the Sigma's performance level). The Sony still costs a very great deal more... well into the "too much" territory for me...

...and, though comprehensive measurements aren't out yet that I'm aware of, the Sigma must surely have less vignetting than the Sony.

It's been a recurring design difference between some Sony GMs and their nearest Sigma: The GM may have some desirable qualities, including weight, but the Sigma is heavier in part because it throws more glass at the problem of avoiding vignetting. Minimal vignetting was important for me as I wanted to take night-sky photos. With most lenses you have to stop down by two stops or more to get vignetting to a negligible level. Some Sigmas only need one stop, or just a little more. It means, in meaningful terms, that they are faster lenses - for my uses. I appreciate that a little bit of vignetting is not a priority or a problem for most kinds of photography, most of the time, but it can be quite a nuisance when doing astrophotography, involving stitching or stacking, where you're starved of light from the outset.

Edit: A few references on vignetting from Lenstip. The Sigma has quite a chunk less vignetting at, for example, f/2.8 than its competitors.
Sigma 135
Samyang/Rokinon 135
Zeiss 135
Canon 135

Edited on Mar 13, 2019 at 08:32 AM · View previous versions

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:20 AM

Holger
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

brafman wrote:
As someone who just acquired the FE version on the assumption that it would, if anything, have better AF performance, I find this to be annoying news. In fact, when Sigma announced the FE versions, I'm pretty sure they said something about better AF. If the FE has issues the adapted lens doesn't, I hope Sigma issues a firmware update to bring the FE version up to snuff.

Manny used AFS. In my experience in AFC, AF is quite good and usable for many many things.

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:20 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

GHarris wrote:
When I was considering buying the Sigma 135 (I ended up getting the EF mount version), discussion about its AF performance was confusing. Some comments and reviews said its AF was poor when used with the MC-11 adapter. Other forum discussions said its AF was quite good.

Eventually I realised that most of the differences came down to whether the comments were written before or after the firmware updates for the MC-11 and the lens - which came some months or maybe a year after the Sigma 135's release, and made a big difference to AF performance.

It was all academic to...Show more →

Mine was before firmware updates for the MC-11. Also the A7rII. I had a really bad hunting issue in AF-S I believe. To the point it would not focus reliable at all. So I had to sell it but the quality of the lens was never in doubt. So probably around that time you heard the negatives on it.

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:27 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

@GHarris - Yes, thank you. You are correct; I read quite a bit about issues prior to the FW upgrade with MC-11 at that time. I was using Metabones and I didn’t encounter any issues. All the images I posted above were taken using Metabones at that time.

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:43 AM

gocolts
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Great shots as usual! Looking back at those have to make you question whether you're making the right move, although going forward, if you know you're gonna need a 135 and be in the Sony mirrorless camp, getting the lens designed for mirrorless probably makes the most sense long-term, and I think we're all looking forward to your results with it.

Like you, I recently sold my sharp Canon version of the Sigma 135 due to the incoming 135 GM. Image quality-wise there wasn't anything I could complain about....but as I recently sold my 70-200 2.8 GM, the 135 was being pressed to do more than before when it came to indoor sports and my daughters stage performances. I wanted something more portable and less conspicuous than the 70-200, and while the Sigma 135 got me partway there, the 135 GM is even smaller/lighter, and I'm optimistic the AF will keep up with action better than the adapted Sigma. We'll see. In the meantime I gotta hope 85mm is long enough, or there's enough light to use my 70-300...

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:44 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

GMPhotography wrote:
Mine was before firmware updates for the MC-11. Also the A7rII. I had a really bad hunting issue in AF-S I believe. To the point it would not focus reliable at all. So I had to sell it but the quality of the lens was never in doubt. So probably around that time you heard the negatives on it.

Guy, I remembered your frustration back then and that you ended up selling that lens.

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:45 AM

GabrielPhoto
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Charlie N wrote:
The quality of the Sigma is amazing, AF, well below average.

See this is the kind of comment I just dont understand. Even on Manny's video, he commented and showed the Sigma and Sony very close in AF performance in normal light and his only issue was in low light where my video shows much better performance with my Canon version than his FE version. So how exactly do you reach your "well below average" evaluation

?

I do expect with an A9 to show more of a difference based on the tech inside the GM BUT that is only speculation at this point since nobody has shown a test with that setup so based on the actual evidence we have, I fail to understand your "well below average" comment.

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:48 AM

Charlie N
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

GHarris wrote:
When I was considering buying the Sigma 135 (I ended up getting the EF mount version), discussion about its AF performance was confusing. Some comments and reviews said its AF was poor when used with the MC-11 adapter. Other forum discussions said its AF was quite good.

Eventually I realised that most of the differences came down to whether the comments were written before or after the firmware updates for the MC-11 and the lens - which came some months or maybe a year after the Sigma 135's release, and made a big difference to AF performance.

It was all academic to...Show more →

I've used the sigma on the r2, r3, and a9 (still own and use with the latest firmware), and the AF is well below average compared to native lenses. In fact, all third party are this way, however, tamron is clearly leading the pack, while sigma and samyang are quite a bit behind. Sigma is faster than the samyang, however samyang has better video AF. the AF is alright for mild motion + good light, like walking at a normal pace, not very good at a brisk pace or running. Low light works fairly well, and likely quits a stop or two before the native would quit.

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:54 AM

Charlie N
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

GabrielPhoto wrote:
See this is the kind of comment I just dont understand. Even on Manny's video, he commented and showed the Sigma and Sony very close in AF performance in normal light and his only issue was in low light where my video shows much better performance with my Canon version than his FE version. So how exactly do you reach your "well below average" evaluation

?

I do expect with an A9 to show more of a difference based on the tech inside the GM BUT that is only speculation at this point since nobody has shown a test with that setup...Show more →

Manny didnt shoot any meaningful action either. I know they are not the same lenses, but the FE 85 f1.8, even the 50 f1.8, totally keeps up with action better than the sigma. On top of that, I'm getting 15+ fps and tracking on the A9 with the sony lenses, only 10 with the sigma, with significantly lower keeper rate when attempting to keep up with running kids.

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:58 AM

Charlie N
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Mar 13, 2019 at 08:59 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

AGeoJO wrote:
Guy, I remembered your frustration back then and that you ended up selling that lens.

Yea really pissed me off. But we where dealing with new tech at the time and just did not work.

Not sure what to say now with our new bodies and tech. I see this debate and I know it has been working well for folks. Maybe I can rent the Sigma when the GM gets here and test this out for folks.

Mar 13, 2019 at 09:01 AM

GabrielPhoto
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Charlie N wrote:
Manny didnt shoot any meaningful action either. I know they are not the same lenses, but the FE 85 f1.8, even the 50 f1.8, totally keeps up with action better than the sigma. On top of that, I'm getting 15+ fps and tracking on the A9 with the sony lenses, only 10 with the sigma, with significantly lower keeper rate when attempting to keep up with running kids.
Even at 10fps , how is that "well below average" ? Sure if you want to squeeze all the fps you can from the A9 for your particular needs that is fine but again, how does that make the Sigma well below average at 10fps when many of us do not need more than that with cameras like the A7R3 and A73 that are more common to users than the A9? Do you see my point?
It would be like me saying the A9 is well below average in resolution because it only has 24MP vs the 42MP of my A7R3 yet for a lot of people, 24MP is more than enough.

Mar 13, 2019 at 09:39 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Charlie N wrote:
Manny didnt shoot any meaningful action either. I know they are not the same lenses, but the FE 85 f1.8, even the 50 f1.8, totally keeps up with action better than the sigma. On top of that, I'm getting 15+ fps and tracking on the A9 with the sony lenses, only 10 with the sigma, with significantly lower keeper rate when attempting to keep up with running kids.

Comparing lenses of the same aperture speed, f/1.8 in this case, for AF responsiveness but of different focal lengths is not quite fair, IMHO. The longer focal length lens has more and heavier optical components to move to focus. Under the same circumstances, the more extended DOF of the shorter focal length lenses tend to mask focusing irregularities better, too.

I don’t know about you, but in my case, although I set the AF at AF-C while keeping it on the closest eye but the drive is single. I trigger the shutter more deliberately rather than firing sequential shots at 10fps. But I understand that YMMV. BTW, what adapter adapter are you using; Sigma MC-11 or Metabones?

Mar 13, 2019 at 09:50 AM

dbehrens
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

Wow Joshua! These are really good. . . you did Sigma proud!!

Mar 13, 2019 at 10:02 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

gocolts wrote:
Great shots as usual! Looking back at those have to make you question whether you're making the right move, although going forward, if you know you're gonna need a 135 and be in the Sony mirrorless camp, getting the lens designed for mirrorless probably makes the most sense long-term, and I think we're all looking forward to your results with it.

Like you, I recently sold my sharp Canon version of the Sigma 135 due to the incoming 135 GM. Image quality-wise there wasn't anything I could complain about....but as I recently sold my 70-200 2.8 GM, the 135 was...Show more →

Matt, thank you very much! Yes, the lure of a smaller and lighter lens with the latest AF system is hard to resist. When I placed my pre-order, I didn't know that the GM would resolve better than the Sigma, which I thought or I still think was superb in that respect. What I am hoping for in the GM, which the MTF curves do not tell, is the bokeh rendition. With that said, I am not complaining about the bokeh of the Sigma either....

dbehrens wrote:
Wow Joshua! These are really good. . . you did Sigma proud!!

Thank you very much, Dave!

Mar 13, 2019 at 10:50 AM

GMPhotography
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Paying a tribute to the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art

GabrielPhoto wrote:
Even at 10fps , how is that "well below average" ? Sure if you want to squeeze all the fps you can from the A9 for your particular needs that is fine but again, how does that make the Sigma well below average at 10fps when many of us do not need more than that with cameras like the A7R3 and A73 that are more common to users than the A9? Do you see my point?
It would be like me saying the A9 is well below average in resolution because it only has 24MP vs the 42MP of my...Show more →

I never ever was into this spray and pray shooting even with sports never mind a model. Really the most I ever needed was about 5 FPS for a golf swing. Even than I did that with Medium format in one shot. Not easy but I got it. It’s all about your timing . Runway stuff I have it set for 3fps but rarely use it. I just lift off the shutter

Mar 13, 2019 at 10:55 AM

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