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Archive 2019 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

TeamSpeed
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Put the camera in AI Servo and run your shutter to 1/640th, and then test again.

For that last one, did you lock focus in one position, like a standing position, then change your position afterwards, like crouch to take the shot? The focal plan appears to run at an angle through the center of umbrella down to the boots, implying a different angle when focus was acquired, than what the shot ultimately was taken at.

Mar 02, 2019 at 05:28 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

adamx12m wrote:
I do exactly the same thing. Even confirm the focal plane in Lightroom by holding down Alt or Option and clicking on Detail -> Masking to see sharpness in white.

If all the lens are contributing to your out of focus shots, I'd could suspect a body issue which seems a bit rare but leaning more towards operator error. With one-shot those shots shouldn't be that soft even without AFMA.

I'll have to try your Lightroom trick there. I hadn't heard of that.

I've been leaning towards operator error, which is why I waited so long before considering sending it in. But the more mad results I get and the more I've played with it, the more I feel like there is an issue with the body. Still could be operator error, but I'm slowly leaning away from that theory.

Mar 02, 2019 at 05:35 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

lighthound wrote:
Something is very odd here for sure. I was going to suggest it's your lens and not the body but you have stated that it's showing up on all your lenses so it has to be your body.

And it's definitely not a AFMA issue as you and others have stated. The one of the little guy next to the water is so far off, no AFMA correction could fix that.

Take a close look at the little girl image. Her boots and stockings are sharp which should be pretty close to the same focal plane as her face, yet her face...Show more →

Dave - Yes, something is definitely weird in the shot of my daughter. I was a little stumped on this one as well as her stockings are clearly in focus and as you point out that appears to be in about the same plane as her face. But it's strange the umbrella behind her is sharper than her face. Maybe this was a bad example, as I cannot completely rule out that she moved a bit. I'll look for some other examples.

I agree with you that if there is an issue with the body and/or lenses there's no point holding off on sending them in. I think lately I've been holding off more because I don't want to go through the effort and expense of doing that only to have Canon tell me there's no issue and send me a bill for their time.

Mar 02, 2019 at 05:42 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

TeamSpeed wrote:
Put the camera in AI Servo and run your shutter to 1/640th, and then test again.

For that last one, did you lock focus in one position, like a standing position, then change your position afterwards, like crouch to take the shot? The focal plan appears to run at an angle through the center of umbrella down to the boots, implying a different angle when focus was acquired, than what the shot ultimately was taken at.

Ok, I'll try some higher shutter speeds, or look for some examples at higher shutter speed.

I can rule out focus/recompose. The only time I ever do that is if I'm shooting at a fairly small aperture and don't have to worry so much about shallow depth of field. I never focus/recompose when shooting people as I'm almost always shooting at a wide aperture. I can't remember if I was standing or crouching when I took the shot, but I can say for sure I didn't go from standing to crouching between focusing and firing off the shot.

Chris

Mar 02, 2019 at 05:45 PM

pjbishop
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Unfortunately I had a similar experience with other lenses when I replaced the 5D II with the IV. I found that I was no longer happy with the 70-200 f/4 IS - excellent on the 5D II, but didn't give me the expected quality of image on the higher res camera. I sold it and got an f/2.8 IS II, which is very, very good, but of course bulkier. Also passed along the 85 f/1.8. Looking for an 85, but mostly need the same kind of zoom length you're concerned about.

csebasti wrote:
Yes, I've been wondering it my 24-105 is the issue, but I do see this on my other lenses as well. I mostly shoot with my 24-105, so that is where I believe most of my bad shots come from. However, quickly looking at the metadata in Lightroom of the ones that I have files away as focus issues, they are pretty evenly split between my 24-105, 85, and 35.

I've been considering sending the camera and lens(s) in to Canon for a long time now. There's never a good time to be without the camera and lenses, so I...Show more →

Mar 02, 2019 at 06:57 PM

rabbitmountain
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Coming late to the party but having used all 5D releases from 2006 (now 5D4 ad 5DsR) I can tell you that something must be wrong with your gear. The 5D4 is my most accurate ever canon body.

The question is which units are responsible. You say it’s with more than one lens. But not all of them? I would want to isolate the issue. You say you still own your 5D2. Do you have any issues whatsoever when using that body on your current lenses? If not, then you can rule out a lens issue. If so, are all lenses affected? Highly unlikely.
My gut feeling is that if you say this only happens with your 5D4 (and using more than one lens) and not with your 5D2 the problem should be in the 5D4 body. Could be electrical inside the AF processing unit. You know this camera stores a lot of information about the lenses (including AF/MA details) and uses that information 100% of the time while performing AF operation. Although I concur that the deviation is beyond micro adjustments range, a fault in this specific unit or part could be the culprit.

So test your lenses wide open, zooms at their longest FL setting and see if you can isolate the issue. Then you will know which units you need to send in.

And by all means, try using LV! You will activate a completely different AF unit so this could provide some clues. You could activate “tap to focus and take picture” and have some fun with your children. Use lenses wide open, such as 85/1.8, and see what you get.

This can’t be user error from where I see it. Assuming you didn’t switch off AF altogether this is not as designed behaviour.

Best of luck and please keep us posted

Kind regards,
Ralph

Mar 02, 2019 at 08:47 PM

pjbishop
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

I experience the AF on the 5D IV as reliably accurate with the 35 f/1.4 II, the 135 f/2 and the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II ( there are others, of course, but these are ones I know best ). The camera likes these lenses, which are all highly rated for sharpness as well as overall quality.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm looking for a short zoom and an 85 but will have to be patient - the company's focus is on mirrorless. Would love to have the splendid Zeiss Milvus 85 f/1.4 but not a skillful enough photographer to do without AF.

Mar 03, 2019 at 07:51 AM

evertdoorn
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

also, when shooting in servo mode, the AF case you use also makes quite a big difference. In the menu's you can alter the settings; for instance if your object moves more erratic and faster, it's wise to choose a setting in which the focus is adapting a bit faster too

Mar 03, 2019 at 08:50 AM

EB-1
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Just send in the 5D IV and 24-105 for service. You are not missing anything but OOF images in the interim.

EBH

Mar 03, 2019 at 10:01 AM

dwweiche
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Your only path to complete peace of mind is to send it in.

Mar 03, 2019 at 06:31 PM

Ferrophot
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

As it is the camera is next to useless. Stop over analysing the problem and send it in. Why pay all that money for something that does not work?

Mar 03, 2019 at 07:46 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Well, I played around with the camera a little today comparing live view with regular AF. I didn't see much difference, but I don;t always get bad results. So a little playing with it one day doesn't really tell me much.

But given that enough of you agree that the camera needs to be sent in, I'm now convinced to send it in. So thanks for all the feedback. I'll likely also purchase Reikan FoCal for MA in the future.

I've never had to send anything in to Canon before, so I'm not familiar with the process. Since I have seen the issue crop up on all of my lenses, do I need to send all in with the body? Or should I just send my 24-105 since that is my most used lens?

As far as actually sending the camera, I assume I should send it insured. Any other tips for sending? Looks like I need to start by filling in info on the Canon Service and Repair website and go from there, correct?

Mar 03, 2019 at 08:11 PM

Alan321
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Write a detailed description of what is gong wrong. Include sample photos (raw and jpg) on a CD or DVD, and refer to them in your description. Basically, give them zero excuse for misunderstanding the symptoms and therefore zero excuse for not finding the correct problem and fixing it.

I'm amazed that LV AF is not working with static subjects.

I suggest that you zoom in with LV and focus manually while the camera is on a tripod. Then take the picture. If it is not in focus then something devious is going wrong because MF in LV is wysiwyg (what you see is what you get) and does not get affected by the usual AF system or the mirrors.

I did have a loose part in the viewfinder of one of my cameras, so that even MF through the viewfinder did not necessarily give correct focus at the image sensor. However, LV bypasses the whole mirror/viewfinder thing and is being read directly from the image sensor.

At some point you might have to test with and without IS so that you can try to rule out a misaligned IS lens element.

Also try to focus on grass or an asphalt road to see if left/right are not focusing the same. That would imply a misaligned lens or a misaligned image sensor or a bent lens mount.

Be grateful that you are not in Australia, or your camera would be at Canon service
for weeks or months instead of days. (I have averaged 7 weeks per service whether or not they actually fixed the problem)

Mar 06, 2019 at 03:36 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Alan321 wrote:
Write a detailed description of what is gong wrong. Include sample photos (raw and jpg) on a CD or DVD, and refer to them in your description. Basically, give them zero excuse for misunderstanding the symptoms and therefore zero excuse for not finding the correct problem and fixing it.

I'm amazed that LV AF is not working with static subjects.

I suggest that you zoom in with LV and focus manually while the camera is on a tripod. Then take the picture. If it is not in focus then something devious is going wrong because MF in LV is wysiwyg (what you...Show more →

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. The little bit of playing with it I did comparing LV with regular AF resulted in all images looking sufficiently in focus. I didn't get anything way out of focus. But I don't always get shots way out of focus, so I think it was inconclusive. I'll try some more this weekend and try what you suggested.

Maybe it'll give me some more examples to send along to Canon.

Chris

Mar 06, 2019 at 11:56 PM

csebasti
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

I had to set this aside for a little while, but back at it now. I'm pulling together all the info and photo evidence to send to Canon to show the issue. Today I took a bunch of test shots with various lenses, focal lengths, live view on/off, tripod mounted with cable release, etc.

I will be sending the body to Canon for service. Just trying to figure out how many lenses to send. I'm thinking the 24-105 for sure. I've seen focus issues on other lenses as well, just can't decide if its worth sending them all in since it seems to be an issue with the body.

The things I noticed today are:

1. I achieved better focus in live view most of the time (see 3 and 4 below for when I didn't get better results).

2. Viewfinder AF was pretty consistently slightly front focused, and didn't look as good as viewfinder AF. But, my micro adjust is set at -2 on a couple of the lenses I was using. Maybe it should be back to 0. Didn't test that yet.

3. At one point with my 24-105 mounted, and at 105mm in LV, the camera consistently "achieved focus" (box turned green) and shot the picture with the image totally out of focus. Samples below. It did this when I set the lens to closest focus before pressing the shutter button halfway on the cable release. Every time. It didn't even attempt to focus. At infinity, it focused fine.

4. After testing a couple different lenses, I went back to the 24-105 to try out what happened previously (#3 above). This time, when set to closest focus, and pressing the release half way it did not attempt to focus at all, and the box stayed red indicating no focus. It would not take the picture.

Here is what I was using as my test scene:

Here is what I was constantly getting as described in #3 above.

And here are the settings, and the focus point showing it achieved focus, but clearly didn't.

On a different note, I was seeing some pretty big jumps in white balance when I turned on live view. I don't know if that is normal. I don't use live view often, so never noticed. But jumps of around 1000 K white balance switching live view on/off, photos taken within seconds of each other under same conditions (full sun). Probably totally unrelated to my focus issue, just an observation.

Chris

Mar 17, 2019 at 07:02 PM

sungphoto
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

As others have mentioned, this does not appear to be a AFMA issue (have had the 5d3 and 5d4). Judging by how much the camera is missing focus with your tests, even maxed out AF micro adjustments wouldn't really make a significant improvement.

From the sounds of it, you're doing all the right things and your exposure values seem fine (specifically shutter speed) and the images don't appear to be blurry due to motion blur.

Being that your live view AF tests don't solve the problem, I'm going to guess that your camera has some pretty significant defects. I'm surprised that it's not giving you an actual error message considering it's not performing anywhere near normal.

I think you've done your due diligence and should send the camera in for service.

Mar 17, 2019 at 07:28 PM

snapsy
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Dust on the PDAF sensors can cause what you're seeing. Try cleaning them with a rocket blower. They're at the bottom of the camera chamber.

Mar 18, 2019 at 09:31 AM

johnbro27
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Well as lighthound said, there's some weird stuff going on in the umbrella shot. I think your best bet is to either borrow or rent another 5DIV and do an A/B test on a tripod, with a stationary (ie not living) subject. Try all your lenses. Use center focus point only, one shot, then switch to AI Servo. Putting those images side by side should tell you something.

So: mount lens A on your body, on tripod, take shot. Switch body: same lens, different body, same shot. Compare. Rinse and repeat. You should be able very quickly to see if it's the lenses or the body (I can't imagine it's all the lenses acting up). If the borrowed/rented body is also soft, then there's something in your technique leading to the softness. As Sherlock likes to say, "When all other alternatives have been eliminated, whatever remains--no matter how improbable--is the truth." Or words to that effect.

Mar 18, 2019 at 05:36 PM

pasblues
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

csebasti wrote:
Well, I played around with the camera a little today comparing live view with regular AF. I didn't see much difference, but I don;t always get bad results. So a little playing with it one day doesn't really tell me much.

But given that enough of you agree that the camera needs to be sent in, I'm now convinced to send it in. So thanks for all the feedback. I'll likely also purchase Reikan FoCal for MA in the future.

I've never had to send anything in to Canon before, so I'm not familiar with the process. Since I have seen...Show more →

Yes, you have to ship camera gear insured. You should also just have your camera gear insured anyway with an inland marine rider policy on your homeowners and make sure what your policy covers such as if it gets stolen out of your car or you drop it in a lake - accidents that could happen off your property during use.

Just an off-chance that the firmware needs to be updated on your lenses?

Apr 01, 2019 at 01:18 PM

rek101
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

I would just send it in and get a advanced point and shoot for the time you're without your camera. A 5D IV should perform flawlessly with native lenses. Just send it in and get the product you paid for.

Apr 06, 2019 at 10:37 PM

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