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Archive 2019 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

csebasti
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Two years ago I upgraded from my 5D II to a 5D IV. When I made the decision, I was really excited and couldn't wait to get my hands on it based on everything I'd heard about it. I immediately noticed what seemed like an image quality difference and a focus difference. And not in a good way. With each set of new photos I loaded into Lightroom, I felt disappointed with the quality and the quantity of images that totally missed focus. I kept thinking I must be doing something wrong, and just kept hoping for better results. Eventually I used the dot tune method to do focus micro adjust, with no real difference in results.

I'll skip my image quality concerns for now as I think it may just be a resolution difference giving me a false perception. I need to do a comparison at equal resolutions.

But, the quantity of out of focus images really has me bothered. I don't have an exact count, but I can say without a doubt it is significantly more than when I shot with my 5D II. I'm curious if anyone else has had this issue, has any advice, seen other discussions on the topic, etc.

For reference, I'm mostly shooting with: 24-105 f/4L IS (original version), 70-200 f/4 (original version), 85 f/1.8, or 35 f/2 (all canon lenses).

Here are some examples of what I frequently get. These are all on one-shot autofocus, I was not moving, nor were my kids.

Focus point right on my son's eye:

Here is the full resolution image.

Focus point partially on his chest, partially on the background across the lake. But the focus plane is on the rocks behind him.

Here is the full resolution image.

The focus point is on my daughter's face, but the sharpest focus is behind her.

Here is the full resolution image.

Mar 02, 2019 at 12:41 AM

EB-1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

I've had no AF issues with my 5D IV and two others I used. It is the best of the 5D series for AF IME. I don't like the dot tune method, and use the LensAlign instead.
In any case, if every lens is way off when the camera is set to zero compensation, then I'd send the body in for service. Does the AF work correctly in Live View?

EBH

Mar 02, 2019 at 01:19 AM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

+1 on the LensAlign. Works very well every time. And then try using a single individual focus point and see what happens.

Mar 02, 2019 at 01:49 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Based on that first file it is showing pretty bad front focus. Try MFA but if it need as lot you may consider sending the camera and lens to Canon for a tune up. I MFA if it needs a little but if out a lot I send it in but that is me. Others don't support my view on that.

Mar 02, 2019 at 03:16 AM

evertdoorn
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

to be honest, the deviation is way too large to be a micro adjustment problem so lensalign or any tuning is not the answer here.

I see you use multiple focus points a lot; what is your preferred method of focussing? single point AF? do you have shutter release or focus priority on? how does live view focus fare against normal focus?

Mar 02, 2019 at 04:29 AM

pjbishop
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

The only AF issues I have with the 5D IV are when somehow the AF gets switched to MF in the bag and I don't notice!.

IMO the problem is the 24-105. It gave reliably good results on on my 5D II, but was a sad disappointment on the 5D IV. A lot of pictures I assumed would be sharp ( one of my son, too) turned out blurry. I might send it into Canon and see if it could be adjusted for the 5d IV, but that probably requires sending in the camera along with the lenseand I don't want do without the camera right now and not entirely confident about a successful outcome. Looking for a 24- whatever zoom but meanwhile getting along with primes.

Mar 02, 2019 at 05:55 AM

Pius Sullivan
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Why don't you give "AI Servo" a try instead of "One Shot" and increase the shutter speed a wee bit.
If the kid blinks you have a blurry shot.
Just to test your focus issues, see if it gets better, its a high MP camera remember.

csebasti wrote:
Two years ago I upgraded from my 5D II to a 5D IV. When I made the decision, I was really excited and couldn't wait to get my hands on it based on everything I'd heard about it. I immediately noticed what seemed like an image quality difference and a focus difference. And not in a good way. With each set of new photos I loaded into Lightroom, I felt disappointed with the quality and the quantity of images that totally missed focus. I kept thinking I must be doing something wrong, and just kept hoping for better results. Eventually...Show more →

Mar 02, 2019 at 06:32 AM

csebasti
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

EB-1 wrote:
I've had no AF issues with my 5D IV and two others I used. It is the best of the 5D series for AF IME. I don't like the dot tune method, and use the LensAlign instead.
In any case, if every lens is way off when the camera is set to zero compensation, then I'd send the body in for service. Does the AF work correctly in Live View?

EBH

I can't say I was really thrilled with the dot tune method, but it was free and I was able to do it quickly at the time I decided to do it rather than buying something. That's really the main reason I used that method.

I've actually rarely used live view. If I were doing more landscape shooting like I used to be fore the kids came along, I probably wold use live view. I'll give it a try this weekend and see what kind of results I get.

---------------------------------------------

Peter Figen wrote:
+1 on the LensAlign. Works very well every time. And then try using a single individual focus point and see what happens.

I actually do use a single autofocus point most of the time since I take a lot of pictures of the kids and I'm trying to get focus on an eye. I just happened to pick 2 examples with multiple points selected. But I have lots more examples with a single point selected that gave similar results.

---------------------------------------------

Zenon Char wrote:
Based on that first file it is showing pretty bad front focus. Try MFA but if it need as lot you may consider sending the camera and lens to Canon for a tune up. I MFA if it needs a little but if out a lot I send it in but that is me. Others don't support my view on that.

I have done MFA (using dot tune method). My lenses did not seem to be too far out when I did that. Here are the settings I ended up with:

Mar 02, 2019 at 01:17 PM

csebasti
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

evertdoorn wrote:
to be honest, the deviation is way too large to be a micro adjustment problem so lensalign or any tuning is not the answer here.

I see you use multiple focus points a lot; what is your preferred method of focussing? single point AF? do you have shutter release or focus priority on? how does live view focus fare against normal focus?

I agree, it's not an MFA problem. I frequently end up with the focus plane being many feet away from where the EXIF data says the focus was achieved.

As far as my preferred focus method, I'm mostly shooting pictures of my kids for the past 6 years. Before that it was mostly landscape, which I still do some of now. For landscape, I always use one-shot, typically multiple points, and a smaller aperture. But for most of my shooting, since it's with the kids I'll be in AI servo, single point trying to keep it on an eye (or face depending on distance, focal length), wider aperture.

I was assuming a lot of my focus issues were related to AI servo and my kids moving too quickly. I've played around with the various tracking settings some, but don't think I really have that all figured out yet. So I've tried to concentrate on increasing shutter speed, using one-shot, and having the kids stand still so I have some images that eliminate the my lack of skill with moving subjects. That's why I selected the images above as examples.

As far as shutter release of focus priority, I assume you are referring to AF menu 2 AI Servo 1st image priority setting. If so, I have it set to "Equal priority". But like I said, I'm trying to eliminate focus tracking as the issue. If that was not what you were referring to, then let me know.

I'm going to give live view a try this weekend and will report back.

Mar 02, 2019 at 01:28 PM

csebasti
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

pjbishop wrote:
The only AF issues I have with the 5D IV are when somehow the AF gets switched to MF in the bag and I don't notice!.

IMO the problem is the 24-105. It gave reliably good results on on my 5D II, but was a sad disappointment on the 5D IV. A lot of pictures I assumed would be sharp ( one of my son, too) turned out blurry. I might send it into Canon and see if it could be adjusted for the 5d IV, but that probably requires sending in the camera along with the lenseand I don't want...Show more →

Yes, I've been wondering it my 24-105 is the issue, but I do see this on my other lenses as well. I mostly shoot with my 24-105, so that is where I believe most of my bad shots come from. However, quickly looking at the metadata in Lightroom of the ones that I have files away as focus issues, they are pretty evenly split between my 24-105, 85, and 35.

I've been considering sending the camera and lens(s) in to Canon for a long time now. There's never a good time to be without the camera and lenses, so I haven't done it yet. But I think I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger. I still have my 5D II, so I can use hat body while the Mark IV is out, but if I have to send all my lenses too, I guess that dosn't help.

Edited on Mar 02, 2019 at 01:42 PM · View previous versions

Mar 02, 2019 at 01:33 PM

csebasti
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Pius Sullivan wrote:
Why don't you give "AI Servo" a try instead of "One Shot" and increase the shutter speed a wee bit.
If the kid blinks you have a blurry shot.
Just to test your focus issues, see if it gets better, its a high MP camera remember.

I actually do use AI Servo frequently (most of the time?). I've been trying to rule out my lack of skill in shooting moving subjects by switching to one-shot and making sure that the subject and I are both not moving. But when using AI Servo, I get lots of shots that are way out of focus as well. In a burst of maybe 5-10 shots of my kids (walking or running) I might get most of them looking pretty well focused, but frequently there will be a couple in the middle where focus is not at the selected focus point (sometimes a little, sometimes a lot) while the EXIF data says that focus was achieved at the selected focus point.

I have been trying to increase shutter speed as well to rule out kid motion. What are suggested min shutter speeds for say a kid just standing there (but might blink or turn head), walking kid, running kid? I suppose moving side to side vs toward the camera makes a difference too.

Mar 02, 2019 at 01:41 PM

ashton lamont
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Of the many menu options I've saved on my 5D-IV's, 5DS-R and 6D-II is to have AIServo on * and AF-ON on One Shot. I use AIServo by default and only use One Shot for specific needs. I also have both the AF-ON and the * buttons to focus rather than the shutter button. Continuous focus using AIServo and separated from the shutter button ought to help those shots if indeed it is not equipment failure.

You could test your focus on static subjects from a tripod using Liveview so that you can eliminate the mirror assembly.

I've had LensAlign for many years but I found that unless I was very very careful it could cause more problems than it solved.

I now prefer Reikan Focal. Its not free but its very affordable and very accurate.

https://www.reikanfocal.com

You can find lots of info on how to use it and MFA in general in Dustin Abbott's three tutorials:

There's a ton of information about it in a PDF on Reikan's site.

Full:
http://s449182328.websitehome.co.uk/focal/dl//Docs/Manuals/Reikan%20FoCal%202.6.0%20Manual.pdf

Quick guide:
http://s449182328.websitehome.co.uk/focal/dl//Docs/Manuals/Reikan%20FoCal%202.6%20Quick%20Start%20Guide.pdf

Pete

Mar 02, 2019 at 03:27 PM

BrianJ
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

I have not had my 5DIV long, and have not done a lot of testing. I only use single, center, point focus, and have yet to be disappointed (24-70 f2.8 I). So far, it has focused better than any of my previous cameras (10D, 20D, 5D, 7D, 7DII - and I was never dissatisfied with any except the 20D).

Mar 02, 2019 at 04:02 PM

csebasti
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

ashton lamont wrote:
Of the many menu options I've saved on my 5D-IV's, 5DS-R and 6D-II is to have AIServo on * and AF-ON on One Shot. I use AIServo by default and only use One Shot for specific needs. I also have both the AF-ON and the * buttons to focus rather than the shutter button. Continuous focus using AIServo and separated from the shutter button ought to help those shots if indeed it is not equipment failure.

You could test your focus on static subjects from a tripod using Liveview so that you can eliminate the mirror assembly.

I've had LensAlign for...Show more →

I have considered Reikan Focal in the past but never actually tried it. Still something I'll consider. I'll take a look at he videos when I have a chance, and read some of their info.

I have played around with back button focus at various times in the past but I don't think I ever gave myself time to get used to it and get to the point where it was just second nature.

Chris

Mar 02, 2019 at 04:26 PM

EGrav
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

I had exactly the same problem as you when I used the Dot-Tune MA method. Was tearing my hair out! Bought FoCal and images are sharp as a tack now. Dot Tune has been reported in numerous discussions on the web as being unreliable for Canon cameras (too subjective). Some swear by it, but when I dumped it, I got great results. (no relation to FoCal - just a happy customer.)

Mar 02, 2019 at 04:31 PM

csebasti
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

BrianJ wrote:
I have not had my 5DIV long, and have not done a lot of testing. I only use single, center, point focus, and have yet to be disappointed (24-70 f2.8 I). So far, it has focused better than any of my previous cameras (10D, 20D, 5D, 7D, 7DII - and I was never dissatisfied with any except the 20D).

I've only owned the 20D, 5D II, and 5D IV. For me with those cameras, the 5D IV has given me the most trouble. Granted, my shooting style/subjects have changed somewhat over the years, so it's difficult to directly compare. I didn't have issues with my 20D, but I was almost never shooting anything moving. I shot probably 95% landscapes or other static scenes and rarely wide open. Using only center point on the 5D II, I never had issues with focus on that camera. So I was really surprised to find that I am not having luck with the 5D IV. It certainly has more AF settings and options, so I keep suspecting it is operator error. But I'm getting less convinced of that.

Chris

Mar 02, 2019 at 04:33 PM

csebasti
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

EGrav wrote:
I had exactly the same problem as you when I used the Dot-Tune MA method. Was tearing my hair out! Bought FoCal and images are sharp as a tack now. Dot Tune has been reported in numerous discussions on the web as being unreliable for Canon cameras (too subjective). Some swear by it, but when I dumped it, I got great results. (no relation to FoCal - just a happy customer.)

How far out of focus were your images when you were having your issues? Are we talking about short distances that are correctable with MA? I'm getting results where the focus plane is many feet away from where the camera says it locked focus. Way outside of MA capability.

Chris

Mar 02, 2019 at 04:35 PM

TeamSpeed
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

The easiest method I have found is to run a brightly colored toy in the yard on low cut grass or on the driveway and go back to as far as it takes where the object covers up the center AF point in single point AF. Wide open lens, at the longest length...

I take shots and use the concrete or grass as very visual indicators of where focus lie after aiming at that object, and adjust from there. I can do this at games using yard markers, etc. I have been doing this since AFMA came out with the 50D and 1D3. It works very well.

Mar 02, 2019 at 04:36 PM

adamx12m
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

TeamSpeed wrote:
The easiest method I have found is to run a brightly colored toy in the yard on low cut grass or on the driveway and go back to as far as it takes where the object covers up the center AF point in single point AF. Wide open lens, at the longest length...

I take shots and use the concrete or grass as very visual indicators of where focus lie after aiming at that object, and adjust from there. I can do this at games using yard markers, etc. I have been doing this since AFMA came out with the 50D...Show more →

I do exactly the same thing. Even confirm the focal plane in Lightroom by holding down Alt or Option and clicking on Detail -> Masking to see sharpness in white.

If all the lens are contributing to your out of focus shots, I'd could suspect a body issue which seems a bit rare but leaning more towards operator error. With one-shot those shots shouldn't be that soft even without AFMA.

Mar 02, 2019 at 05:10 PM

lighthound
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 5D IV Autofocus Issues

Something is very odd here for sure. I was going to suggest it's your lens and not the body but you have stated that it's showing up on all your lenses so it has to be your body.

And it's definitely not a AFMA issue as you and others have stated. The one of the little guy next to the water is so far off, no AFMA correction could fix that.

Take a close look at the little girl image. Her boots and stockings are sharp which should be pretty close to the same focal plane as her face, yet her face and upper body is blurry. Notice the focal plane in the grass as well. Then what is really odd is that the umbrella BEHIND her is sharper than her face area. That's some funky stuff right there. The only possible explanation for that would be if she was moving her head fast and your ss was too slow. At 1/320 I would say you are flirting with motion blur problems with fast little ones like you are shooting.

I hear you about not wanting to be without your camera for a period of time, but with the shots you are getting, does it really matter? Sadly, it's not like those are keeper images anyhow so you are just wasting time IMHO. I'd send it in and include as much supporting info as possible.

Good luck!

Dave

Mar 02, 2019 at 05:19 PM

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