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Archive 2018 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Tom K.
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Folks, I just bought a Sony A7lll and I find it amazing. I shot Canon for 20 plus years and am transitioning to Sony. I have a question. I shoot in nightclubs and many have very poor lighting for the performers on stage. For the first time last night I shot in a club I have worked before with my Canon and a Fuji XT-2 but last night was my first using Sony A7lll in that club. I used a 55mm f/1.8 Zeiss lens shot wide open all night long. Photos were from ISO 3200 up to 10000. The Sony performed beyond my expectations. I achieved results I could not have achieved with any other camera I have owned.

My question. I used eye autofocus and that feature alone is revolutionizing the way I shoot in clubs. It worked phenomenally. My only problem is I don’t seem to have control over which eye or on which person’s eye the camera chooses. In the photo I took last night linked here the camera even focused on an eye on the bass players tee shirt. The face of Marilyn Monroe. If I could figure out a way to have the eye autofocus choose the person I want to photograph I would be all set. How the heck can I do that?

**note** There are four faces in the attached photo. Three band members and the face on the bass players tee shirt. Eye focus jumped from face to face.

Sophie Rousmaniere, lead singer of The Elected Officials by Tom Kaszuba, on Flickr

Oct 07, 2018 at 11:24 PM

PaulMaewpa2
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

I don't have A7III (A7RIII owner) so am not familiar with it is eye-AF behavior. Just a couple of ideas to play with:

If you use flexible spot (or even zone) to focus on the face (or even right person) and then engage the Eye-AF you should be able to better control who the camera focuses on.

However note all these situations where Sony says Eye-AF may be less consistent, and in these cases it might possibly go hunting for another eye that is clearer (second part me, not Sony!). Most of these would probably have occurred when shooting the band above.

When the front hair covers the person’s eyes.
In low-light or back-lit conditions.
When the eyes are closed.
When the person is in the shade.
When the person is out of focus.
When the person is moving too much.

I am sure you will get much better ideas from others though.

Oct 08, 2018 at 01:12 AM

pcrit
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

You should be able to use the joystick or another method to move the focus point to the face you want in focus. It will by default select the closest eye if I am not mistaken but you can select another face easily. My other thought would be face registration if you want to choose a particular subject. So many options with this camera.

Oct 08, 2018 at 01:44 AM

ph2003
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

When using center focus point, the face/eye AF always pick the closest face/eye near the center area.

In the future sure we can select which face/eye we need to focus on, the new Z280 camcorder, It allow you to pick which face you want to focus by the joy stick.

Oct 08, 2018 at 04:36 AM

TT1000
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Eye AF overrides whatever focus area you have set and tries to find the nearest eye, however, if you have set any flexible spot or expanded flexible spot focus area then eye-af will try to find an eye nearest that focus area.

So if you use Flexible Spot (or expand flexible spot) L/M/S and put the focus point over the face you want and then engage eye-af it should look for an eye on that face even if it isn’t the closest face. However, if the person is moving his/her head to where the eye is obscured then it can jump to another person.

Oct 08, 2018 at 05:26 AM

Tom K.
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

TT1000 wrote:
Eye AF overrides whatever focus area you have set and tries to find the nearest eye, however, if you have set any flexible spot or expanded flexible spot focus area then eye-af will try to find an eye nearest that focus area.

So if you use Flexible Spot (or expand flexible spot) L/M/S and put the focus point over the face you want and then engage eye-af it should look for an eye on that face even if it isn’t the closest face. However, if the person is moving his/her head to where the eye is obscured then it can...Show more →

I did have the flexible spot where I wanted it in the frame but I’m thinking I must have been holding down the eye autofocus button I assigned without letting up on it. So if I put the flexible spot over the face I wanted do I half press first to engage the focus and then press the button for the eye autofocus or is the flexible spot just being over the face I want to focus on enough.
The vast majority of photos I took where perfectly in focus and did grab the person I wanted but the jumping around was something I need to remedy. I’m thankful for all the helpful suggestions.

The dark nightclub setting I was shooting in would push any camera and lens to its extreme limits. Super high ISO. Terrible lighting and dark. Fast moving singer jumping around all over the stage. Yet....after all was said and done I got more keepers than one could ever hope. If this eye focus thing could be corralled in then it would be the icing on the cake. Bottom line is I’m super impressed with this camera.

Oct 08, 2018 at 11:27 AM

GMPhotography
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

TT1000 wrote:
Eye AF overrides whatever focus area you have set and tries to find the nearest eye, however, if you have set any flexible spot or expanded flexible spot focus area then eye-af will try to find an eye nearest that focus area.

So if you use Flexible Spot (or expand flexible spot) L/M/S and put the focus point over the face you want and then engage eye-af it should look for an eye on that face even if it isn’t the closest face. However, if the person is moving his/her head to where the eye is obscured then it can...Show more →

This is where a firmware update or a choice would be helpful. If we could set let’s say a zone area and Eye AF would only work in that zone or that area you want it would be most useful. As it is today as I was shooting a guy at a podium but another person in the background was in the shot the Eye AF tended to shift sometimes to the guy in the back. What I found that kind of works is let go of the Eye AF than put the subject you want dead center than hit Eye Af and recompose it worked a good majority of the time but if we had a zone area which for me here would be right side of frame and stay within that area I would not run into the background guy. So if we had a way to set a option to stay within the zone or any focus point area than that would be a great option to have. It’s not bad today but can be annoying sometimes to have to play around to get the right subject. It would be a easy firmware upgrade as your just telling Eye AF to stay in the focus area chosen.

Oct 08, 2018 at 11:40 AM

lunar module
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

You can register faces in the shooting menu and rank order them. Eye af should then preferentially look for faces per the rank order. I have no experience with this, but this feature should theoretically solve your problem if you want to focus on a particular performer. Might give it a try to see if it works.

Oct 08, 2018 at 11:14 PM

Tom K.
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Oct 09, 2018 at 01:26 AM

TT1000
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

lunar module wrote:
You can register faces in the shooting menu and rank order them. Eye af should then preferentially look for faces per the rank order. I have no experience with this, but this feature should theoretically solve your problem if you want to focus on a particular performer. Might give it a try to see if it works.

If you have Face Detection (Regis, Faces) the camera will try to prioritize those faces and in the order you ranked them and then when you engage eye-AF it will try to find the related eye. However, if you have Flexible Spot S/M/L (or with locked on) it will override the Face Detection Registration of Faces and try to find the closet eye to the focus point. And I find it more reliable when using eye-AF with multiple faces in the scene then using Wide or Zone with the Face Detection + face registration.

Oct 09, 2018 at 02:55 AM

therealthings
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

I have discussed this at the Photokina 2 weeks ago as i thought it was already possible to switch easily between faces. I also tried the face registration option, but found it still to be a bit buggy. I hope a new generation will solve this as it is a really nice feature to have when you are photographing multiple people or tracking a person between other people.

Oct 09, 2018 at 07:37 AM

KarmaKramer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

I notice it too. Trying to shoot a face thats between two others,the eye-AF jumps between all 3. Even though the focus box (irritatingly grey focus box) is on the one in the middle:/ I just focus & shoot til I land it.

Oct 09, 2018 at 07:43 AM

dgpfotografia
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Tom K. wrote:
I’m brand spanking new to the Sony A7lll but this does sound like a good idea.

Hi Tom,

This video I think explains quite well how it works:

, it is for the Sony A7r II, but it should work with the A7 III in similar way.

Regards,

David

Oct 09, 2018 at 07:51 AM

wingbatwu
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Tom K. wrote:
I’m brand spanking new to the Sony A7lll but this does sound like a good idea.

In a dark bar concert setting, it never worked for me. But the dark bars I go to might not have the same lighting conditions as the dark bars you go to, so feel free to experiment!

Oct 09, 2018 at 01:23 PM

Tom K.
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

I found a video where at the 5:40 minute mark the gentleman explains how to lock eye autofocus on the person of your choice. Check it out: https://youtu.be/w4spL2zb160

Oct 11, 2018 at 12:24 AM

farfisa
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Love the shot, Tom!

Also hard to imagine a better example for a post on Eye-AF! I mean, her eyes are huge and she's pointing right at 'em! How could the camera not see that?

Video was great too, I've had Sony cameras for years and still learning.

Oct 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM

Tom K.
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Another video showing how to choose a person in a group and being able to control eye auto focus https://youtu.be/TqJVLWTrWLQ

Oct 16, 2018 at 11:10 PM

PaulMaewpa2
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

I don't know if the videos you posted mention it, Tom, but one thing I didn't see anyone discuss (and I forgot too!) is the PDAF area. This may be because it is so obvious, but initially it may not be.

I find eye-AF works much better within the PDAF area, especially in low light, but that covers only 50% of the sensor (3/4 each way if you are mathematically challenged as me) and the problem is you can move focus points or track things (like eyes) well outside that area but you are then using CDAF only. So if you are in extreme conditions for tracking and struggling to achieve focus, one of the first things you do is make sure your focal point is comfortably within the PDAF area. This may mean you need to take a step or two back and then crop to get the composition you want, but it often helps.

Just another factor. Nice you posted the relevant videos you found.

Oct 18, 2018 at 12:11 AM

Blankeyes
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

Excellent thread! Will plow through tips and videos. Just what I was looking for 😃

Made me sign up too.

Feb 26, 2023 at 02:20 PM

mudnut
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Eye autofocus - question on more than one person in photo

As a novice who's shot small songbirds regularly for about a year, I used small spot focusing with and without tracking extensively and have gotten satisfying results so that's what I'd recommend for the camera to focus and stay focused on the face you want. Nonetheless, as you well know, shooting in a dark setting always poses a challenge for a camera's AF system. So I recommend also using continuous shooting modes for more keepers.

Feb 26, 2023 at 04:21 PM

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