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Archive 2018 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

hiepphotog
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

freaklikeme wrote:
All six of us were content to stick with the adapters because we still had a-mount cameras. And the MD mount was killed by Minolta long before Sony bought any of their assets.

There would be a much larger riot if they altered the e-mount in a way that forced everyone to start over.

I think it's possible if they go with a much wider mount and shallower flange. But any mount change now doesn't make sense. Sony could have made the E-mount bigger, but they didn't. Either way, they can certainly live with that mis-step just like Nikon did with the F-mount (though not as serious as the F-mount).

Sep 04, 2018 at 11:39 PM

jtra
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

hiepphotog wrote:
I think it's possible if they go with a much wider mount and shallower flange. But any mount change now doesn't make sense. Sony could have made the E-mount bigger, but they didn't. Either way, they can certainly live with that mis-step just like Nikon did with the F-mount (though not as serious as the F-mount).

They can reduce flange by two millimeters and extend width while making cheap ring that will forward electrical contacts. If ring would be cheap, then you could just have multiple and attach them to all your lenses, add larger caps and be done with it. Not ideal, but if there is significant value in having larger mount, it is possible.

Sep 05, 2018 at 12:07 AM

jhinkey
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

m4/3 might be one of the next mounts/systems to fall if FF becomes the only game in town.
The reason I still have my m43 gear is that Panasonic really knows how to make a mirrorless camera work extremely well and some of the lenses are just fantastic when I don't need absolute high levels of DR.
If Panasonic is opening up a FF line of cameras and lenses eventually their m43 offerings might suffer slow death.

Sep 05, 2018 at 12:18 AM

sirimiri
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

Anybody remember the Pentax Q, Samsung NX and four/thirds mounts?

Sep 05, 2018 at 12:19 AM

JimUe
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

mogul wrote:
Pardon me, my screw drive Sony have full support with the 99II.

Yes, I agree. However:
1) do the proportionally huge amount of screw drive Minolta lenses have full support with the a9911? No. With no apparent good reason not to either.

2) with screw drive AF lenses, is one able to use the amazing amount of all those on-sensor PDAF points on the FE mount cameras? I believe not. Would it be possible with some effort on the part of Sony? Why not?

Sep 05, 2018 at 09:16 AM

hiepphotog
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

JimUe wrote:
Yes, I agree. However:
1) do the proportionally huge amount of screw drive Minolta lenses have full support with the a9911? No. With no apparent good reason not to either.

2) with screw drive AF lenses, is one able to use the amazing amount of all those on-sensor PDAF points on the FE mount cameras? I believe not. Would it be possible with some effort on the part of Sony? Why not?

I am not aware of any screw drive Minolta lenses that can't be used on the A99II.... As for the mirrorless, I don't see why Sony really need to put more effort in making those screw drive AF lenses compatible with the on-sensor PDAF. The motor on these screw drive AF motor is just not right for mirrorless AF scheme.

Keep in mind that Nikon has no solution for their screw drive AF lenses either.

Sep 05, 2018 at 09:26 AM

mogul
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

Sep 05, 2018 at 10:22 AM

molson
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

thrice wrote:
So which are you asking for?

1. A built-in extension tube on the back of the lens that makes it incompatible with A mount, and which would only work for non-screwdrive lenses?

or

2. A mount conversion on an E-mount camera that makes it only compatible with lenses for a mount which will never get new lenses or a new camera?

I'm not asking for either - I was merely trying to point out the irony (or is it hypocrisy) of an earlier poster who was demanding Canon provide a mount exchange service for their older lenses with the intro of new mount system - something no camera manufacturer has ever done (except Sigma, I guess - but that had nothing to do with them changing the lens mount on their cameras).

Sep 05, 2018 at 10:23 AM

molson
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

jhinkey wrote:
m4/3 might be one of the next mounts/systems to fall if FF becomes the only game in town.
The reason I still have my m43 gear is that Panasonic really knows how to make a mirrorless camera work extremely well and some of the lenses are just fantastic when I don't need absolute high levels of DR.
If Panasonic is opening up a FF line of cameras and lenses eventually their m43 offerings might suffer slow death.

My only reason for owning MFT gear is the size and weight factor - it seems to be the only system capable of making lenses that are smaller and lighter than the legacy DSLR glass. Sony seems to have gone the opposite direction, making so many of their lenses bigger and heavier than the old DSLR lenses. I'm not getting any younger, and I really appreciate that I can actually lift and comfortably carry my entire system (covering the equivalent of 16mm to 800mm) in one sensibly-sized bag.

Sep 05, 2018 at 10:30 AM

mjm6
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

hiepphotog wrote:
I am not aware of any screw drive Minolta lenses that can't be used on the A99II.... As for the mirrorless, I don't see why Sony really need to put more effort in making those screw drive AF lenses compatible with the on-sensor PDAF. The motor on these screw drive AF motor is just not right for mirrorless AF scheme.

Keep in mind that Nikon has no solution for their screw drive AF lenses either.

Screw drive was a horrible concept when it was first implemented, and I am still baffled that both Nikon and Minolta used that approach. Nikon is still dealing with that disastrous decision today. Minolta/Sony, not so much, as they effectively abandoned the A mount when they introduced the E mount. Plus, when Minolta was sold to Sony, they used that opportunity to just end certain things without justification, and people just had to accept it.

They just haven't officially acknowledged the A mount is dead yet, and won't until ML is a larger portion of the market. I bet it will be soon, though. Next year maybe?

Sep 05, 2018 at 11:38 AM

hiepphotog
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

Sep 05, 2018 at 11:44 AM

mjm6
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

hiepphotog wrote:
I definitely agreed. Back in the day, I imagine the thought behind it was to have one strong motor to control the AF, instead of having to fit a small motor onto a smaller lens. I just responded to the other guy as he somehow thought A99II couldn't deal with screw drive MInolta lenses.

Yes, it was certainly the case. For one, the motors in the lenses were a bit bulky at the time (other than the excellent USM motors that Canon had) and small powerful motors were probably expensive...

I do remember looking at and using the Nikon F4 back then (I was actively shooting PJ at the time, so I had exposure to a lot of the current offerings), and it was obvious that the concept was limited from the start. The Nikon folk argued it made their gear cheaper, but what it really did is enable them to keep making similar pre-AF gear with relatively little innovation.

As much as I didn't like having to buy new Canon lenses to move to AF bodies, I appreciated that the MF--->AF break was the right time to make a major change like introducing a new lens mount.

Sep 05, 2018 at 11:56 AM

k-h.a.w
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

Why muck around with the Sony E/FE Mount now?
That wouldn’t make any sense to me.
Sony should focus on an A9 II to keep me happy.

K-H.

Sep 05, 2018 at 12:01 PM

molson
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

mjm6 wrote:
Screw drive was a horrible concept when it was first implemented, and I am still baffled that both Nikon and Minolta used that approach. Nikon is still dealing with that disastrous decision today.

And to think Nikon started out with AF motors in the lens like Canon did, but for some bizarre reason they abandoned that concept to go with the screwdriver system...

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf3ver2/f3afbasic/index.htm

Sep 05, 2018 at 12:34 PM

freaklikeme
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

molson wrote:
I'm not asking for either - I was merely trying to point out the irony (or is it hypocrisy) of an earlier poster who was demanding Canon provide a mount exchange service for their older lenses with the intro of new mount system - something no camera manufacturer has ever done (except Sigma, I guess - but that had nothing to do with them changing the lens mount on their cameras).

That explanation is completely divorced from reality. When you suggested a new e-mount, all I said was that it was unlikely unless they planned to offer a mount exchange program for the people already invested. You seem to have assumed that was a. a demand, and b, tied to remaining loyal to their base. It wasn't either. It would be a bad business decision. If they wanted to change the mount, the introduction of the FF cameras was the time to do it. Not five years in when there's finally competition on the market. People have lenses they love for the system now. Change the cameras to make those lenses obsolete, and you may as well issue invitations to the entire base to leave.

Sep 05, 2018 at 02:56 PM

JimUe
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

mjm6 wrote:
Yes, it was certainly the case. For one, the motors in the lenses were a bit bulky at the time (other than the excellent USM motors that Canon had) and small powerful motors were probably expensive...

I do remember looking at and using the Nikon F4 back then (I was actively shooting PJ at the time, so I had exposure to a lot of the current offerings), and it was obvious that the concept was limited from the start. The Nikon folk argued it made their gear cheaper, but what it really did is enable them to keep making similar pre-AF...Show more →

Back in the day SSM tech didn't have proven reliability and it uses more power and results in bigger lenses. And to the other guy about the a9911 and screw drive lenses, try using one.

Sep 05, 2018 at 03:13 PM

mogul
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

JimUe wrote:
Back in the day SSM tech didn't have proven reliability and it uses more power and results in bigger lenses. And to the other guy about the a9911 and screw drive lenses, try using one.
I have my 135 f1.8 mounted on the 99II now, couldn't be happier

Sep 05, 2018 at 03:21 PM

mawz
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

mjm6 wrote:
Screw drive was a horrible concept when it was first implemented, and I am still baffled that both Nikon and Minolta used that approach. Nikon is still dealing with that disastrous decision today. Minolta/Sony, not so much, as they effectively abandoned the A mount when they introduced the E mount. Plus, when Minolta was sold to Sony, they used that opportunity to just end certain things without justification, and people just had to accept it.

Nikon did screw mount because lens motors were not ready for prime time in the 80's (people forget Nikon's original AF lenses were lens motor, the 80/2.8 AF and 200/2.8 AF for the F3AF). USM changed things, but even the first generation of USM lenses were less reliable and only faster on a 1 series body.

Screw drive delivered better performance for less dollars for the first couple generations of AF bodies. Nikon switched to lens motors for high performance lenses in the mid 90's and effectively end of lifed screwdriver AF more than 10 years ago when the D40 was released. The vast majority of Nikon DSLR's produced have no screwdriver support (in terms of numbers produced, not models) and Nikon's last screwdriver AF lens was the 10.5mm DX Fisheye released in 2003. A few screwdriver AF lenses remain in production largely because the tooling is fully amortized and they're cheap to produce and a few people still buy them over newer/better AF-S lenses.

Minolta was very late to the party on SSM lenses and Sony only ever introduced a handful of SSM and SAM lenses.

Sep 05, 2018 at 03:46 PM

mawz
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

molson wrote:
And to think Nikon started out with AF motors in the lens like Canon did, but for some bizarre reason they abandoned that concept to go with the screwdriver system...

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf3ver2/f3afbasic/index.htm

Ever used an F3AF?

How about an F4 with screwdriver lenses?

At the time, screwdriver lenses were significantly better. Times change.

Sep 05, 2018 at 03:48 PM

mogul
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · guess which mounts will be abandoned

mawz wrote:
Nikon did screw mount because lens motors were not ready for prime time in the 80's (people forget Nikon's original AF lenses were lens motor, the 80/2.8 AF and 200/2.8 AF for the F3AF). USM changed things, but even the first generation of USM lenses were less reliable and only faster on a 1 series body.

Screw drive delivered better performance for less dollars for the first couple generations of AF bodies. Nikon switched to lens motors for high performance lenses in the mid 90's and effectively end of lifed screwdriver AF more than 10 years ago when the D40...Show more →
Sony's 1st Zeiss lenses were screw drive

Sep 05, 2018 at 04:03 PM

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