Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

FM Forum Rules
Landscape Posting Guidelines
  

FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              6      
7
       8       end
  

Archive 2018 · Where did everyone go?

  
 
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · Where did everyone go?


Mark Metternich wrote:
Totally agreed.

As much as this Landscape Forum is being called a presentation forum, I have never known it to be merely that. When in depth critique has always been clearly encouraged in its policy and practiced.

”If you are desiring more IN DEPTH CRITIQUES, please only post one or two photos...".

That seems clear.

But the spirit of the critiquer I think is fundamental. Having been critiqued in literally thousands of posts I can certainly generally tell which people are approaching me or my image to be encouraging and helpful and which ones negative and discouraging. At times those really
...Show more
This post should be stickied



Aug 26, 2018 at 01:00 PM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · Where did everyone go?


I recently had cataract surgery and can see colors and saturation much more accurately. Now I can see with my own eyes what others said about my images having color cast and being over processed.

So I have been going back over some of my better images and reprocessing them. But now they are uninteresting.

It is clear to me that just being at a place at a certain time is not going to cut it. Do I start over? Is it worth it when so many other people have already done it?

As Craig said, it's hard to get anything new and exciting.



Aug 26, 2018 at 03:54 PM
xterra07
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · Where did everyone go?


Ben, as long as you find it new or exciting, I think that's important. That's what motivates me, I have a vision of what I want and where, if weather/etc conditions are not there, I find another spot, idea to follow. We all have different goals and limits, and sometimes external influences help.

I think what's worth it is following a hobby/passion/etc and getting satisfaction out of it, and sometimes others value it similarly and sometimes they don't. And either you revisit some ideas of the past, and other times you find new ideas to follow... to capture.

Some pictures here motivate. And some feedbacks here discourage, but like with weather, if it's not the right day, then.... there will be another day.
There are certain special places, and going back to them is exciting, so if you didn't get the right image yet, you can only get it by going again. And since it's a nice place, it's ok to go.

If you like something about others' photos, get an idea or 2 that you can use for your style of photos.
Feedback given is not always the feedback felt, your pictures might be more liked than the comments reveal, and that could be motivating too.... my fans are not speaking out... yet 😀



Aug 26, 2018 at 04:34 PM
Camperjim
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · Where did everyone go?


Frogfish wrote:
This post should be stickied

I don't think so. In fact I disagree pretty much entirely. A critique should help the photographer understand what others see. It should help the photographer see what worked and more importantly what did not work.

If your work strikes others as being over cooked, don't blame the intentions of the person making the critique. Don't pretend you do not understand. It might mean the processing over pumped up with saturation, contrast, local contrast enhancements, dodging/burning. HDR, or a variety of more sophisticated technqiues. The person making the critique can rarely tell what was done in the processing, but they can point out the image is over cooked to the point of being surreal and phony. Personally I find those sorts of comments to be valuable. That does not mean I like or dislike the person making the critique. Nor does it mean that I will agree or want to change my style or interpretation.



Aug 29, 2018 at 10:25 PM
Frogfish
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · Where did everyone go?


Camperjim wrote:
I don't think so. In fact I disagree pretty much entirely. A critique should help the photographer understand what others see. It should help the photographer see what worked and more importantly what did not work.

If your work strikes others as being over cooked, don't blame the intentions of the person making the critique. Don't pretend you do not understand. It might mean the processing over pumped up with saturation, contrast, local contrast enhancements, dodging/burning. HDR, or a variety of more sophisticated technqiues. The person making the critique can rarely tell what was done in the processing, but they
...Show more
It's not that I disagree with your intent, I don't at all. It's about the psychology of criticism and how best to dispense the information / opinion so that the recipient will not take offence (as is human nature with overt criticism - not matter how well intentioned the giver).

You can Google 'how best to critique' and there is pretty much a consensus amongst psychologists on how it should be delivered to be best accepted : praise > critique > friendly encouragement. The sandwich. It's how children are taught and adults are no different in rates of acceptance.

So it isn't about my opinion or yours or anyone else's, there is a proven science to this. And that's why I said sticky the post I quoted, because it adheres to that science.



Aug 29, 2018 at 11:42 PM
Camperjim
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · Where did everyone go?


Frogfish wrote:
It's not that I disagree with your intent, I don't at all. It's about the psychology of criticism and how best to dispense the information / opinion so that the recipient will not take offence (as is human nature with overt criticism - not matter how well intentioned the giver).

You can Google 'how best to critique' and there is pretty much a consensus amongst psychologists on how it should be delivered to be best accepted : praise > critique > friendly encouragement. The sandwich. It's how children are taught and adults are no different in rates of acceptance.

So
...Show more

I have taken a lot of courses where the participants critique photographs or other art work. It does always help to couch the criticism in kind words. There are also those who refuse to accept criticism. They attack the character of the person making the comments. They refuse to understand simple terms like over cooked or over processed. Some times facts need to speak for themselves and we need to give up trying to deal with children. This is why I avoid dealing with any comments on this forum. Anyone who wants to have a discussion or received extended comments can at least participate on the Photo Critique forum. You will find a great deal of encouragement along with the idea that honest comments are desired.



Aug 30, 2018 at 01:30 AM
EGrav
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · Where did everyone go?


CamperJim wrote:
I have taken a lot of courses where the participants critique photographs or other art work. It does always help to couch the criticism in kind words. There are also those who refuse to accept criticism. They attack the character of the person making the comments. They refuse to understand simple terms like over cooked or over processed. Some times facts need to speak for themselves and we need to give up trying to deal with children. This is why I avoid dealing with any comments on this forum. Anyone who wants to have a discussion or received extended comments can...Show more

That's why there are Presentation Forums (like this one) and critique forums. Not hard to understand....



Aug 30, 2018 at 08:36 AM
Camperjim
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · Where did everyone go?


Exactly. Lots of people who post on forums are looking for a pat on the back. They really do not want to hear any criticism or negative comments. Under those circumstances any critique is wasted and is likely to elicit explanations and harsh feelings.

The Photo Critique forum is for those who want some feedback. Even that does not often workout. I see newcomers receive a warm welcome, some positive comments but negative comments when they apply. Those newcomers often never return. Outright hostility will drive off anyone, but there is a point when the person posting has to be willing to accept negative comments. Some just cannot. Their egos are too big.



Aug 30, 2018 at 11:11 AM
Dustin Gent
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · Where did everyone go?


kevindar wrote:
My bookmark used to be the landscape forum. Now its the Sony forum
Jim Fox left and started his own site. He used to comment on most photos, and had something very useful to say (depite them being almost universally negative about my images). I appreicated that.
I am a lot busier than I used to be. have two young kids. not travelling much, not posting much. even my flickr for the most part gets 4 new images a month.

I do also think that there was some degree of mutual admiration society involving groups of posters. Nothing wrong with it,
...Show more

The Sony image thread is my favorite, and is really active - crazy enough!



Aug 30, 2018 at 02:55 PM
xterra07
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · Where did everyone go?


We have viewers, presenters, commenters, critiquers. Some don't do all 4.
Some images are hard to comment on because there is nothing "productive" to say. Or some are "too good" so there is nothing to critique.
Or you critique and it's not welcome because the presenter just wanted "comments" (which to some mean positive comments only).
Some pictures are super good so viewers do more than their usual.
Most of us want some kind of motivation when viewing -- for near or distant photography of our own. And the presenters want to be motivated by others' feedback.

Sometimes the wants/gots don't agree but we all get something out of it, and it's more valued than from other websites, isn't it?



Aug 30, 2018 at 03:26 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · Where did everyone go?


Dustin Gent wrote:
The Sony image thread is my favorite, and is really active - crazy enough!


I've posted into the Sony image thread and look at the images there...but there is very little discussion on the images and really no theme other than the make of camera. I'm much more interested in landscape and travel images and less so macro, portraits or dogs running.

I hope things turn around in these image forums as there was a time when they were very active with good feedback on postings.




Aug 30, 2018 at 09:21 PM
Camperjim
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · Where did everyone go?


I remember more activity but not good feedback. In fact years ago many of us were all but driven from the forum by an out of control moderator.


Aug 31, 2018 at 12:40 AM
voltaire
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · Where did everyone go?


Still here but rarely post due to work. Been here since 2005. FM is where I know people respect each other's opinions although some of that dynamic has changed the past few years.


Sep 10, 2018 at 02:36 PM
Sunny Sra
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · Where did everyone go?


well...Hello there.


Sep 12, 2018 at 08:49 PM
Pavel
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · Where did everyone go?


I almost wish I had not stumbled upon this thread. It has made me think too much. Normally, I answer a thread off the cuff, with the first response that comes to mind, of course with the occasional regret. This is, in 15 years of being on this forum, perhaps the tenth reply that I've actually thought about a while before posting. It somehow has a lot of weight with me.

I wish it has not been hijacked with the "comment/don't comment" and "how to comment, let me count the ways" emphasis. I find that to be besides the point, though I will add to it by saying that I find it confounding that someone could be that sensitive to be worried about someone else viewpoint one way or another. In a way I feel that if you need to be guided that much that perhaps one is missing one's own vision and is not likely to find it until it somehow finds you, where you don't much care what offense may be in someones reply. I find it interesting to hear someones criticism of any work I may put out there, but in truth it would not ever cause me offense because, well, I don't value others ideas over my own innate feelings very much. I guess that makes me a bad participant in some circles.

But aside from that one aside, this idea, which I believe to be accurate that people are sort of drifting away makes me pretty sad, in part because I mostly have. I don't want to, but somehow the day where I got excited about coming here, the best forum always (and still) imho out on the big wide internet, reflects how I've lost my passion for something once important to me. I wonder why?

I use to come. regularly and take all discussions seriously and have such a good time in doings so. Digital life seemed so fresh and immediate back then, to me. It don'ts now, no matter how much I try to make it so. I don't come here very much, and when I do it's more that I'm trying to get into the spirit of something, where in the back of my mind I know that it's a bit false.

There are several reasons for this, but I can't decide which are the most significant and if it's just a quick thing that will pass or a terminal sort of ennui. Is it because digital photography has become so easy? Shooting fish in a barrel is only fun awhile. Or is it that the ego wants something "special" and with the wealth of amazing images out there, there is never anything special for more than a two second click through? Years ago I saw an add for Nikon, featuring Jared Cushner, in which it said something like "let Nikon do it". That is supposed to be a draw? That stuck with me, because it seemed repulsive that the machine now does such a chunk of what our vanity tells us is our unique, creative vision. No matter how I slice the arguments, I can't buy into it too much that I am still the "artist" creating an image. Nikon as far as I view it "does it for me", and it leaves something lacking as Nikon does it better and better each passing new model iteration. I have more technology than I could ever want, and it seems to leave me flat. Does anyone else feel that way, even if only once in a while?

I left for a while in great part because in 2006 I started back in film and that took off in 2008 and really took off in 2010 for me when I built a Darkroom. Photography, pure photography, as I considered it to be, as opposed to "digital image manipulation" at that time, kicked my butt a lot, but somehow I enjoyed every minute of it and digital started to get boring for me. But products started to disappear, and I though I saw the end on the film wall coming and so when my house and darkroom flooded in 2014 I did not re-build the darkroom. At that point I re-imeresed myself in digital, and all was good for a short time. But then the same personal feeling of a lack of any worth to the hobby started to come around again. For a while new gear, always a sure fire way of keeping interest, worked to keep me going but over the last few years even that magic bullet lost its magic. So for a good long while I have held onto the equipment, much too much of it, in hopes that my interest will flood back. I didn't want to be re-buying when the bug hit again. It has not worked, however, and now the gear isn't worth selling, the new stuff does not entice me much and methinks I may be near done.

There are such great photographers on this forum, and they take such great photographs - billions of them, all so perfect. Not just perfect but too perfect. Yeah, that's the other thing. The trend seems to have taken current photography to the loud, bold, colorful styles that ... well, look like they were shot on some other planet with three suns, so that the shadows always show some of that vaunted texture and the colors pop more than a teenagers pimples. I'm equal parts impressed with this unreal perfection that seems to scream wild colors at me, and equally repulsed. Actually the repulsion is greater than the admiration.

So I come here, trying to revive my hobby, but I find digital photography too much the work of the technology and I find it banal to a great extent. I hate saying that. I hate that, for me, it's true.

And then there is how (imho) digital photography costs have gone insane. lenses are priced like Veblen goods for fetishists. I used to think it was insane when I moved to the states (the south eastern backwoods part ) and I saw how bass fishing worked. One gets a 80 thousand dollar investment in gear, between boat, motor, rods, reels and lures and goes with sonar to hunt some hapless fish with a brain the size of a pea, mounts it and considers it to be a life affirming grace. I saw that sort of "hobby" as a freak show. I know that I'm going going to get pretty unpopular really quick here, but photography now is a lot like bass fishing. a larger than life, grotesque sort of fetish hobby - and that's before I start to think that money I've spent could have been put to some sort of more humane purpose.

Hhmmm. I better stop now. . I've been fighting the itch to close my Fredmiranda account for almost three years and thus close the door on my past, and force a move to other things. But I think myself out of it. I better do that now, quick. I don't want to contribute to the exodus, and I'm sure it will be clear to me any day now, how photography is actually really important in the whole scheme of things. Yes, that's it!

And besides, I have to find a replacement. Bass fishing is out. I've recently taken up painting though, and I'm amazed how bad I am. Nikon's doing nothing to fix my poor colors on the canvas, nor my poor perspective. Why is it so much fun though? My painting sure do suck. And does any of this make any sense at all? I wish I had not bumped into this thread.

Perhaps I need that new Nikon Z6? Can I live without a second card slot, however, is the big question. Anyone know?



Sep 17, 2018 at 04:59 PM
Camperjim
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · Where did everyone go?


Pavel, I relate 100% to your comments. One of the main reasons I don't post here very often is related to your description of the typical landscape image I see here that looks, as you stated, like it was shot on a different planet. I call it shock and awe photography.

In spite of my agreement with your comments, I have found a part of photography that still appeals to me. Every shot I make has an artistic intent and vision of what I intend to communicate. I have also morphed my artistic vision towards painting. I only use pastels and in a relatively short time have developed enough skill to express myself. This has led to a couple of interesting ideas of what others like. They seem to like photographs that are not realistic but have the surreal or otherwise highly manipulated characteristics. When it comes to paintings, they like to see highly realistic images. I believe they think that demonstrates a level of skill. I guess I am sort of strange because I prefer my photography as realistic and my art work as more expressive.



Sep 17, 2018 at 08:39 PM
Melancholia
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · Where did everyone go?


Pavel,

Don't let other photographers set the bar for you. If you think their work is too technically perfect, then chart your own course. You have infinite freedom within this hobby to shoot whatever you want, whenever you want, process it how ever much or little as you want. If digital photography seems too easy for you, then set restrictions. Turn off the LCD and only bring a 8GB card on a trip. Be as realistic or abstract as you want to be. You turning your back on photography is like someone who is giving up writing music because they hate the songs that are playing on the Top 40 charts. If you don't need to produce work to someone's agenda, then just be you.



Sep 17, 2018 at 09:42 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · Where did everyone go?


Personally I don't feel the new technology has taken over my photography vision...totally the opposite, it has expanded my vision by taking away roadblocks. A good part of my photography revolves around travel and with the mirrorless technology reducing bulk and weight, I'm much more comfortable carrying my gear during travels and don't get as tired nearly as much as I used to lugging heavier equipment...allowing me to better focus on my vision at the end of the day.

If one feels the tool is ruling their vision, then there is more to it. A camera is just a tool, does what the photographer tells it to. It's the eye looking through the viewfinder that creates the vision. It's the photographer behind the camera that decides on what to focus on, what to leave out, how to expose, what lens to use etc..., none of this has changed. Technology just makes certain tasks easier.

For example, eye-AF allows me to put all my efforts on looking for that child's expressive moment rather than worrying about where the focus rectangle is located in the viewfinder. IBIS has allowed me to shoot in much dimmer conditions, allowing me to get images which I could not before.

I think blaming technology on one's lack of inspiration and vision is very short sighted.



Sep 18, 2018 at 11:11 AM
Camperjim
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · Where did everyone go?


chez wrote:
......

I think blaming technology on one's lack of inspiration and vision is very short sighted.

I think this entirely misses the point. Technology has made it easy to change colors, pump up saturation, make a composite with the milky way in the background, produce garish over processed images, use filters and plugins and create surreal images, add double rainbows and lightening strikes. So now we see endless examples of such post processing marvels. Personally I think the software engineers deserve most of the credit and the techniques have gotten in the way of creativity and artistic vision.

There are still those who have a different view and still post of this forum. Many do so repeatedly while they watch their threads slide off of page 1 with few or no comments. Meanwhile the latest and greatest piece of post processing work becomes a featured thread.

The FM Landscape forum does not necessarily reflect the rest of the world. Personally I have found a small group of a dozen or so photographers who are interested in alternative means of expression. We meet monthly to review our efforts. I also have taken up painting and spend less time with photographers and more with artists, curators and gallerists. I do occasionally post on the Photo Critique forum. It is not very active but the participants are most interested in what is being expressed instead of just the techniques involved.

To me the issue is not a lack of inspiration but a waning interest in the overall trends of this forum. It fits the needs of some but the issue is that many of us have less interest than in the past. One of the things that really hurt the forum at least from my perspective was a moderator and his cronies who actively pushed out those who did not fit the shock and awe style.



Sep 18, 2018 at 11:49 AM
InnomnateViem
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · Where did everyone go?


To me the issue is not a lack of inspiration but a waning interest in the overall trends of this forum. It fits the needs of some but the issue is that many of us have less interest than in the past. One of the things that really hurt the forum at least from my perspective was a moderator and his cronies who actively pushed out those who did not fit the shock and awe style.

well put. let the truth be told. the truth will set you free.

add to that, selectively biased censorship according to the morality of the 1. that pretty much sums it up.....



Sep 18, 2018 at 03:33 PM
1       2       3              6      
7
       8       end




FM Forums | Landscape Photographer | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              6      
7
       8       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.