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Archive 2018 · Where did everyone go?

matthewsaville
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Where did everyone go?

rfkiii wrote:
You hens should stop clucking and go out and take a picture.

Having said that, I do want to comment on one thing:

I am on Facebook for various groups featuring the X1D, GFX 50s & 645z and every time I go there, I think to myself "what a terrible interface".

I see a thread like this and I want to shout "shut up" before the owner decides to shut the whole thing down because folks are simply ungrateful.

Oh, make no mistake, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The "platform" of social media is made for, and encouraging, people who have the attention span of a gnat and the politeness of a rebellious teen who just got grounded. It's terrible.

But that doesn't stop it from being the popular platform. It's where whichever company hosts the platform, makes millions or billions of dollars, somehow, off our own daily lives.

I'm definitely starting to feel like an "old soul"; I would absolutely prefer a forum-style discussion any day. And I think this discussion here has been a very respectful one, with zero risk of being shut down. If anything, discussions like this are vital to the survival of a community.

I truly hope that Fred himself (or whoever is the current official owner of this place) is getting enough $$$ from the memberships here to keep the lights on. I don't always keep my paid (B&S) membership current here, but I do wind up donating a few bucks a year when I have some random bit of gear that I need to sell.

Jul 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM

JimKied
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Where did everyone go?

I've been in travel status for a while and I just got caught up on this thread. The OP, Dustin, has been kind to me over the years, providing useful and relevant information about site locations and whatnot and I am very appreciative of his input. That said, I feel the need to express some concern about the direction this thread has gone. I feel that I owe it to Dustin, because I believe that he has a genuine concern relating to the forum.

Dustin's original question was to ask where many of the older posters have gone, with the intent, as I perceive it, to encourage greater participation in the forum. In my mind, a healthy and thriving forum, with active participation, is much more relevant to its users, and ultimately promotes even more participation.

From what I have seen as I have read through the responses, is that there is a disagreement as to the purpose of this forum and it appears to have two main issues. One is that it should be a presentation forum vs. being a critique forum and the other being that maybe it has become obsolete given the dominance of other social media. As to the social media issue, I can't speak much to that, if you prefer the instant gratification of social media, then go participate in that. But if you want to hear the suggestions and opinions of those who have a more intense interest in the craft and art of photography, then I believe that a forum such as this is the more relevant venue for that.

That said, it leads into the disagreement as to the purpose of the forum. Even though it appears that its function is to be a presentation forum, I still believe that this forum is the best place to hear from others that can provide insight on how one can improve their craft/art. When I post, I always ask for suggestions/comments on how I can improve. Even the best of us (and I know I'm not one of them) need to be able to hear and thoughtfully consider the suggestions of others. And those others that provide the suggestions need to know how to provide constructive suggestions without being offensive. Don't we all want to learn and grow in photography? In my mind, if all you want to hear is attaboys, and praise, go post your pictures on the social media platform of your choice.

And I honestly believe, that if such an environment was to exist, the participation would return. I know I would post more often. I think that may be one of the real reasons I stopped posting. I can also say that another reason I stopped posting is because I would post pictures that are not from places that are common to most of the forum members. I sense a strong western US/mountain/rocky coast bias, and where I live (Florida), I have none of that. I do a lot of coastal Florida sandy beach images that respond well to local residents, but I seldom get input/feedback from others on this forum, and I think it is because of the subject matter.

Which brings up another concern of mine. The forum should be receptive to landscapes from all kinds of places, and there should be input/suggestions for all of them. If we are truly interested in photography, shouldn't we also be willing to learn and grow by participating in all kinds of landscape scenes?

IDK, maybe the critique boards may be a better place. Maybe we should have separate critique boards for landscapes, wildlife, portraits, and whatnot. Maybe that is a better solution. In any event, I think Dustin's main issue was with the decline in participation and also the decline in participation of other highly talented photographers that used to frequent this board. I hope that y'all can take these suggestions as they were intended - to provide something constructive that may help promote more active participation on this board.

Jul 29, 2018 at 09:30 AM

greeneggs
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Where did everyone go?

I like seeing critiques and seeing great photos. We can have both. My problem is that the best photos aren't surfaced. Instead, the longest threads that are constantly at the top just consist of the original poster mindlessly commenting "Thank you", "Thank you for your comment", "Thanks", etc., to bump their post over other people's pictures. Sometimes you get pages where the comments are all "Thanks for viewing my pic!"

Aug 06, 2018 at 05:58 PM

chez
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Where did everyone go?

greeneggs wrote:
I like seeing critiques and seeing great photos. We can have both. My problem is that the best photos aren't surfaced. Instead, the longest threads that are constantly at the top just consist of the original poster mindlessly commenting "Thank you", "Thank you for your comment", "Thanks", etc., to bump their post over other people's pictures. Sometimes you get pages where the comments are all "Thanks for viewing my pic!"

This in my opinion is the biggest problem here. The selfish self bumping of ones posts to the top. Fred needs to tackle this issue. I propose that the author of the thread cannot bump their own thread. I've seen threads that were dormant for a week get bumped to the top by a simple "Thank You"...that's just wrong.

Aug 06, 2018 at 06:42 PM

Rajan Parrikar
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Where did everyone go?

chez wrote:
This in my opinion is the biggest problem here. The selfish self bumping of ones posts to the top. Fred needs to tackle this issue. I propose that the author of the thread cannot bump their own thread. I've seen threads that were dormant for a week get bumped to the top by a simple "Thank You"...that's just wrong.

Fred could set it up such that the OP can bump it up no more than 2 times and only within the first 2 days.

Aug 07, 2018 at 11:45 AM

dbehrens
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Where did everyone go?

lionking wrote:
To sum it all up:

*Some hate C&C, but post here anyway (i wonder why).

*Some want C&C, they get it but don't have the stomach for it,(growing up takes time).
*Some want C&C, but don't receive enough, or nothing at all,( that's a shame).

*Some want only positive C&C, (i know few psychologists).

*Some feel like a superstars,(the psychologists won't fix that )

*Some feel frustrated (improving requires hard work and dedication, giving up is always on the table)

Sounds like nothing new, no forum rule can change or fix that, common decency, respect, and positive attitude could, unfortunately the fixer, the glue, the policeman left,...Show more →

Good summary of typical group dynamics that will never change.

I still post off and on - there is always room to learn but another reason why I post is to see what others like or dislike - as we all do not see landscape photography in the same way.

As for recommended changes . . .

I would love to see a limit to the bumps - like maybe 3 times per posting.

It may be worthwhile to clarify the rules, i.e.
- define what is landscape,
- you need to expect C&C,
- I have no problem with pro's reporting on past workshops (I'm also okay with leaving links for their services but would prefer not to see direct adverts on future workshops).

And it would be nice if more folks would post their top 15! (Although mine is out of date!) That in itself is a useful exercise.

All in all - thank you Fred Miranda!! You still have a great web site!!

Dave

Aug 07, 2018 at 03:14 PM

infosecgeek
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Where did everyone go?

I stopped coming here mostly because of lack of engagement. The Buy & Sell forums I still frequent fairly often but the rest of the site has pretty much gone downhill.

You post hoping for C&C, you don't get any and you move on. While FB&Insta aren't the greatest platform any image sparks a conversation on some of the larger groups. Of course the forums have always at managed to self police trolls, the engagement is what I feel photographers look like. I suck as a photographer and always trying to learn and get better, would like honest critique not "oh wow that's awesome" or "meh could be better"

I've been learning to shoot and edit the Milky Way so have been posting to some of the Facebook Night/Milky way groups, have gotten critique both good and bad but most importantly there was engagement and helpful tips like try lowering x there or applying this technique.

Aug 07, 2018 at 03:27 PM

OregonSun
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Where did everyone go?

Here's another clue to where everyone went. My upload and sell subscription expired yesterday and when I went to renew I found that the yearly rate has gone from $35 to $59. Not sure I'm willing to pay that much. More money for less value (fewer people, more ads, no nudes, etc.) is never a good sign for the longevity of an enterprise.

Heron

Aug 09, 2018 at 07:57 PM

InnomnateViem
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Where did everyone go?

interesting, that's a ~ 60% increase in yearly rate. has there also been a 60% increase in services rendered on this site as well?

add to that a 100% increases in equivocal ambiguous arbitrary censorship subjective to the morality of the one. it no doubt makes one wonder. Where did everyone go? eol.....

Aug 11, 2018 at 01:36 PM

chez
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Where did everyone go?

OregonSun wrote:
Here's another clue to where everyone went. My upload and sell subscription expired yesterday and when I went to renew I found that the yearly rate has gone from $35 to $59. Not sure I'm willing to pay that much. More money for less value (fewer people, more ads, no nudes, etc.) is never a good sign for the longevity of an enterprise.

Heron

It would be nice to know about this increase rather than being caught off guard. Not a good move. Love to understand the reason behind such an increase. I too don't know if I'll renew at that price.

Where on this site does it list the cost of the upload subscription?

Aug 11, 2018 at 08:03 PM

ckcarr
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Where did everyone go?

Well, I'm certainly not defending that drastic a fee hike (or any fee hike), and especially if there was no notification, but when I read that yesterday I did a little on-line research ...

If that's true (and mine renewed back in March or April for $35), I think if you look at most photo sites they are hitting or passing that $70 mark these days for annual memberships.

And, if you are selling gear, which is probably why most people have a membership, then it's still far cheaper than eBay commissions.

I do love the people though that jump into these type threads to complain who have never ever posted a picture and also have never been a dues paying member... They just complain to complain....

Aug 12, 2018 at 09:25 AM

InnomnateViem
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Where did everyone go?

not true. the luminious landscape membership is $1.00/month or $12.00 usd annually.

I do love the people though that jump into these type threads to complain who have never ever posted a picture and also have never been a dues paying member...

since when did posting pictures or paying dues become a prerequisite to comment or participate in a thread on this site? subjective reasoning in an idiosyncratic world, perhaps?

hmmm, eol.....

Aug 13, 2018 at 10:33 AM

michmich2
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Where did everyone go?

Chez, here is the membeship link: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/upload-sell.php
The dropdown menu lists the prices

Aug 13, 2018 at 10:56 AM

Brad Williams
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Where did everyone go?

15 months ago my wife and I had a baby, that really cut back on my photography time. Combo that with being really busy at work and I just haven't made it to Fred Miranda much.

That said, I prefer the FM forum over social media. Its much better for viewing quality photos.

Aug 13, 2018 at 02:07 PM

lookoutscout
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Where did everyone go?

Excellent question. I have posted here on occasion but with little comment or recognition. I might put the same image up on FB or IG and get hundreds of likes, thousands of views and dozens of comments and get not even a peep here. Crickets. I do attempt to comment on images which are posted but my interest has waned as it seems a one-way street. I will add I did post an image a few years ago and was told the image had absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever. By the moderator nonetheless. That is tough love right there. I do love the site and try to frequent it frequently and will put more effort into it. Another thought which is a barrier is the sizing issue of pixels per side. I don't process to fit this site and there are images I'd like to share but they are not correctly sized to upload and thusly don't make it to FM. Thanks for listening and I love the work I see and have learned a lot from each of you.

Aug 13, 2018 at 09:08 PM

gordon l
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Where did everyone go?

This post caught my attention last weekend but I was off to Lake Powell so I didn't comment yet. I just read the WHOLE THREAD (takes a long time). My thoughts:

1. I've grown up as a photographer on FM from 2005 when I got my first digital camera. I DO have a thick skin and all those comments and suggestions over 13 years have helped me tremendously. THANK YOU.
I always assume C&C is OK as long as it's civil and helpful with good intent. Who wants to come to a forum to make enemies? Not me.

2. Any post used to get 10 comments within a day. Some were congratulatory "nice shot" and others were critical "too dark and underexposed" stuff.
ALL that was helpful to me. If I got 3 suggestions to change the white balance, I'd take a good look at the WB again. If I got 5 "nice shots" I'd feel validated somewhat. I do miss that instant feedback but . . .

3. I've not found any forum better. So I come back. But . . .

4. Because feedback is much slower, I don't check back as often so I might post and then peek again 2 days later to see if anybody liked my work or suggested some changes.

5. Also I should say that I learned from seeing work of others and got lots of location wish lists from seeing what other people posted here. That's been great.

MY FM WISHLIST:
1. More participation. I do my part. Of my 4,700 posts, most of them are comments or suggestions on other people's photos.
2. Limit the bumps to the top to 2 or 3 like many have suggested.
3. Love to see a thumbnail key photo with the posts

DISCLAIMER:
I'm no pro. I self stuff on SmugMug occasionally but I have a day job. Photography is a money-losing hobby that I love.
Thanks everybody.

--Gordon Smith (gordon l)

Aug 19, 2018 at 05:04 PM

Jred
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Where did everyone go?

First of all I love this place. It has made me a better, more thoughtful photographer. Is it perfect? No.

I have tried but cannot find a better place.

Aug 20, 2018 at 10:08 PM

kevindar
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · Where did everyone go?

My bookmark used to be the landscape forum. Now its the Sony forum
Jim Fox left and started his own site. He used to comment on most photos, and had something very useful to say (depite them being almost universally negative about my images). I appreicated that.
I am a lot busier than I used to be. have two young kids. not travelling much, not posting much. even my flickr for the most part gets 4 new images a month.

I do also think that there was some degree of mutual admiration society involving groups of posters. Nothing wrong with it, its only natural. But turned some people (including myself) a little off.

I still come from time to time, and try to comment on about 10 images. I actually more infrequently add a comment to an image with 2 pages of comment, giving oohs and aahs. Admittedly, I am one of the self appointed know it alls, who actually try to give a measured critique (what i like about the image, and how it can be improved).

Now a days, I do it a lot more b/c I enjoy doing the comments rather than trying to get others to comment on my posts.

Now I am actually going to make some posts on others images

Aug 20, 2018 at 10:29 PM

fplstudio
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · Where did everyone go?

I've never understood why here there is no picture gallery to choose from. Many come to the landscape forum to look at stunning work and get inspired by such work. Nowadays it is sort of awkward to open each single thread to see the image in it, much quicker IG for that purpose.

Aug 21, 2018 at 07:40 AM

fenged
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · Where did everyone go?

It is extremely cumbersome to post a picture here. You have to post it somewhere else then link it over. That’s not how we share photos today. You just upload then it should be done.

I only post if I need genuine feedback. IG is good for sharing photos and getting followers but not a good place to get good critiques. You like or no like, but that’s about it.

Aug 21, 2018 at 10:30 AM

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