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Archive 2018 · Where did everyone go?

Camperjim
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Where did everyone go?

Mark, based on your comments you will probably not find the Photo Critique to meet your expectations.

When people are honest, I find many do not like my subject matter or style or artistic intent. I don't change to try to meet everyone's expectations. Nor do I take it personal or find it toxic. Some people are just not going to appreciate the same approaches that I like.

Trying to couch criticism with some false or insignificant praise often does not work. I would rather hear the honest impression of the viewer.

I find overbaked and overcooked to be a very valid comments. We certainly see much of photography on the forums that fall into the category of shock and awe. One of my favorite photographers on these forums does very minimalistic and simple images. They often get little attention but I find they express the feeling of wide open spaces that are very much a part of where he lives. In any case I find there are more than enough images shot into the setting sun with intense colors, double rainbows and lightening strikes. Maybe this does not resonate with you but I enjoy hearing about the alternatives even though I might not care for them.

Jul 20, 2018 at 09:44 AM

chez
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Where did everyone go?

Jul 20, 2018 at 10:04 AM

Camperjim
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Where did everyone go?

chez wrote:
.......
I also find comments like great shot to be meaningless.

The one that gets me is "Nice Capture". This is usually applied to some image that has obviously been greatly manipulated and has little to do with reality.

Jul 20, 2018 at 12:01 PM

Mark Metternich
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Where did everyone go?

Camperjim wrote:
Mark, based on your comments you will probably not find the Photo Critique to meet your expectations.

When people are honest, I find many do not like my subject matter or style or artistic intent. I don't change to try to meet everyone's expectations. Nor do I take it personal or find it toxic. Some people are just not going to appreciate the same approaches that I like.

Trying to couch criticism with some false or insignificant praise often does not work. I would rather hear the honest impression of the viewer.

I find overbaked and overcooked to be a very valid...Show more →

I have always loved subtle work. So no issues there!!!

But yes, I think we can be respectfull in giving constructive suggestions and feedback. I think it just falls in line with basic human value and dignity and treating others the way we would like to be treated.

But all of my previous comments here are more about the Landscspe forum and how it has always been a critique forum. I have never known it to be anything else with the exception of when people post a ton of photos. I have never NOT gotten critiqued except for a little bit more recently, maybe in the last year or so. But I know from feedback from a lot of people that a lot of people left the forum because of the negativity of a small group of people who were very negative and not open to a little more creative work. Some of my favorite photographers on the planet left years ago.

Also I look back at some of the photos I posted 6,7,8,9+ years ago and they sometims got bashed with negative comments like “over baked” and “over processed.” Yet often with no constructive feedback about what the viewer thought was overdone. Now you can go to my website or Flickr or whatever and look at the very same photos and most are quite subtle and conservative to today’s general accepted standards.

These were people who were very negative and not at all open to a little more creative work. So, this whole thing about grouping up against creative people or grouping up against more literal types can be ridiculous. There are different approaches to post processing.

I think quality work is quality work regardless of our preferences. And I hope we continue constructive feedback on the Landscape forum.

Jul 20, 2018 at 01:25 PM

Mark Metternich
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Where did everyone go?

Lastly I’ll go against the flow here about bumps. I think if someone posts a job dropping, award winning photo that is so magnanimous that it freaks the group out. Which happens quite often here because of the caliber of Photographers we are dealing with. Well, I believe that type of image warrants the attention and admiration and interaction and award that bumps it high on the list for quite some time. That never bugs me. It also has never bugged me when people reply to others only one or two or three at a time and get bumped. It is an equal playing field and good work will generally get more attention. Work that is subpar will probably not get as many comments.

Yet having said this, I believe everyone in the group should do a better job, including myself, of commenting on other peoples work even if it is not that great. That way we are bumping up other people. As Jim Fox suggested to me years ago, I tryto go to Fred Miranda and make 5,6,7 comments a day if I can and I try to give good thought out constructive feedback. And I also try to keep up with some of the comments on my posts as well.

But I also see the other side. If you only get three comments on your photo then it certainly is not going to get a lot of attention.

Jul 20, 2018 at 01:50 PM

DaleBerlin
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Where did everyone go?

My 2 cents:

Through my eyes, the majority of images floating to the top is superb work and deserves recognition. But, there is definitely weaker work (in my eyes) that rises due to human nature. It is natural to comment on, vote for, and support a friend’s work, even if it is not their best. This may rub some people the wrong way, and discourage them from participating in the forum.

I always thought it would be interesting to have a presentation forum where no names are attached to anything for a time period. No name on the image, no name on the comment / critique. Perhaps nothing would change, Im not sure.

Jul 21, 2018 at 08:28 AM

chez
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Where did everyone go?

I think an image will stand on its own. If it's a great image, it will most likely get a lot of comments and be bumped along on a regular basis. If it's a mediocre image, it will naturally drop out. We don't need to self promote the image by allowing the post creator the ability to bump their own image...let the members decide the image's fate.

Of course there is always the clique groups that bump each other's images no matter how good or bad the image really is...but I guess there is not much that can be done about that.

I just don't feel it's right for an image that drifted off the 1st page is right back at the top after a week of zero activity in the image just by a simple "thanks bob" by the author.

Jul 21, 2018 at 08:45 AM

Rajan Parrikar
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Where did everyone go?

chez wrote:
When a true discussion takes place, multiple people are involved and the post would get bumped up by those people. If only the post originator is in the discussion then that post does not deserve to be bumped up.

Just my observation that many add simple comments to their own posts just to bump them up. Something like “thank you Bob” after over a week of the thread being silent so it can be bumped to the top is just not fair to the threads that have just been posted and are being shoved down. This occurs an awful lot here,...Show more →

Quite true. I’ve noticed that some folks keep their photos “in play” for days on end by bumping them up at strategic intervals.

It is okay to do so (in moderation) the first day or two after a new post but after that it is best to leave it alone, unless there are specific questions raised requiring a response. Needless to say, since there are no formal rules on this, mine is just a personal guideline.

Jul 21, 2018 at 11:11 AM

Rajan Parrikar
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Where did everyone go?

Mark Metternich wrote:
Yet having said this, I believe everyone in the group should do a better job, including myself, of commenting on other peoples work even if it is not that great.

Good point. The worst kind of guy (and there are a handful of this type) is the one who shows up only to post his work but never participates in reacting to others’ work here. Again, nothing in the rules says you must participate in discussions in order to post, but it seems to me to be against the spirit of a forum to only use it without putting anything in.

Jul 21, 2018 at 12:23 PM

Dustin Gent
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Where did everyone go?

Rajan Parrikar wrote:
Good point. The worst kind of guy (and there are a handful of this type) is the one who shows up only to post his work but never participates in reacting to others’ work here. Again, nothing in the rules says you must participate in discussions in order to post, but it seems to me to be against the spirit of a forum to only use it without putting anything in.

This is true - and I am guilty of doing that sometimes - but I don't participate much in this forum ; mostly in the Zeiss or Sony image threads. However on your point in participating, what if you don't like the image? I don't want to critique (some people don't want critiques). I am not just going to falsely say "nice image".

And I know there are cliques out there for sure. The elitists, if you will. There are even hidden Facebook groups and such. This type of behavior turned me off, and I no longer follow any photographers unless I have met them in person and know them. It is funny when I hear third hand about "drama" among "photographers". And don't get me started on workshops... anyways, I digress as I am getting so super off topic.

Jul 21, 2018 at 01:28 PM

Rajan Parrikar
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Where did everyone go?

Dustin Gent wrote:
This is true - and I am guilty of doing that sometimes - but I don't participate much in this forum ; mostly in the Zeiss or Sony image threads. However on your point in participating, what if you don't like the image? I don't want to critique (some people don't want critiques). I am not just going to falsely say "nice image".

And I know there are cliques out there for sure. The elitists, if you will. There are even hidden Facebook groups and such. This type of behavior turned me off, and I no longer follow any...Show more →

Dustin -

I only respond to those images that emotionally move me. Those images I don’t like, I hold my peace and move on. I’m not suggesting one has to respond to every image posted or even every other post. But there has to be some level of engagement that shows one cares about the content here other than one’s own. What that “some” is I’ll leave for people to figure out.

Jul 21, 2018 at 02:05 PM

SharonVL
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Where did everyone go?

I have a counter-view about critiques. I quit posting photos here because you tend to get the same critiques that want you to process photos a certain way and end up with a bunch of photos that look alike. I think forum critiques stifle creativity because of what and how they critique. Telling someone to crop a third off the photo or open/close shadows is your vision of the photograph, not the photographer's.

Rajan Parrikar wrote:
I only respond to those images that emotionally move me. Those images I don’t like, I hold my peace and move on. I’m not suggesting one has to respond to every image posted or even every other post. But there has to be some level of engagement that shows one cares about the content here other than one’s own. What that “some” is I’ll leave for people to figure out.

And it also ends up being like instagram in that you like other people's photos and they like yours and it can get to be insincere and forced and a turn off creatively. If we could get to the point of sincerely commenting with no bs, then a presentation board would be more useful. However, I don't want to hear crop a third off the sky or lose the foreground. Not helpful at all.

All my opinion only, of course.

Best,

Sharon

Jul 21, 2018 at 08:30 PM

chez
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Where did everyone go?

Jul 21, 2018 at 08:45 PM

Rajan Parrikar
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Where did everyone go?

SharonVL wrote:
I have a counter-view about critiques. I quit posting photos here because you tend to get the same critiques that want you to process photos a certain way and end up with a bunch of photos that look alike. I think forum critiques stifle creativity because of what and how they critique. Telling someone to crop a third off the photo or open/close shadows is your vision of the photograph, not the photographer's.

And it also ends up being like instagram in that you like other people's photos and they like yours and it can get to be insincere and...Show more →

The first thing to do before posting one's work on a public forum is to develop a very, very thick skin.

Yes, there are those habitual "you need to crop this" or "the subject is too centered" bores. The types who have taken an online course and imbibed the cliches of photo criticism. People who make presumptions about your aesthetic choices can be irksome, but once you make your work public you have to be prepared for all manner of responses. The purveyors of "you need to crop" and the "subject is too centred" business are easily ignored. But by and large I have found the reactions here to be helpful - people often see your work differently than you see it.

Jul 21, 2018 at 09:39 PM

SharonVL
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Where did everyone go?

The best critiquers are your clients. 😀

Jul 21, 2018 at 09:43 PM

Rajan Parrikar
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Where did everyone go?

SharonVL wrote:
The best critiquers are your clients. 😀

Don't knock FM in its ability to find new clients. It is very SEO-friendly and if you include the right kinds of keywords...

Jul 21, 2018 at 09:45 PM

SharonVL
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Where did everyone go?

I really wasn't knocking FM at all. Just saying why I don't post for critique. :-) If it helps others, that's great.

Jul 21, 2018 at 10:24 PM

EGrav
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Where did everyone go?

As CamperJim noted earlier - This is a PRESENTATION Forum, not critique. Self-appointed experts can feel free to go to the critiques forum.

Jul 22, 2018 at 09:46 AM

Camperjim
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Where did everyone go?

EGrav, again, I think you have expressed the majority opinion clearly.

It seems best to avoid any sort of negative comments or suggestions. Even the most innocuous seem to backfire. That leaves only nonspecific positive comments such as "nice image". After a while that seems pointless. We just need to push the like button instead. Notice there is no dislike button.

Jul 22, 2018 at 11:27 AM

kylebarendrick
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Where did everyone go?

If someone says "C&C welcome" then assume it is. If they don't, then assume it isn't. Pretty simple.

Jul 22, 2018 at 11:35 AM

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