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Archive 2018 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG

  
 
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Are they any differences between these 2 versions? I couldn't quickly find much. Specifically,

1) aperture blades

2) coatings

3) flare/ghosting

4) contrast/sharpness

I know some CY lenses are reportedly better, but unsure if the CY 85 2.8 is different. Looking to pick one up for my a7 series camera.




Mar 15, 2018 at 04:26 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


I think the main difference commonly cited is ninja star bokeh. My understanding is that it is present in some AEG C/Y glass, but no MMJ. The general recco is to get MMJ for this reason, which is reflected in the price.

Here's the thread to read: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1487249/0. Scroll down a few entries to jcolwells post



Mar 15, 2018 at 04:33 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


This is the place where I learned all about C/Y glass. On a video centric forum, but covers everything C/Y. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92044-Contax-Zeiss-Survival-Guide

Read the first few pages for tons of detail about the various iterations of C/Y glass and depth reviews and reccos on what to acquire and avoid... the thread is still going strong today (started in 2012)



Mar 15, 2018 at 04:34 PM
AdaptedLenses
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


That Red thread has pretty much become the Bible. According to him, better coatings and flare performance on the MM. Iíve disliked Ninja star too many times, but it is much more apparent on their f/1.4 lenses, as itís glaring at f/2 for example, and gone by f/4 if I recall. Itís more subtle on slower lenses.

I will disagree with him on build though. Itís not exact to the change from AE to MM bit at some point they made small cost savings measures, most evidenced by going from engraved lenses to paint. However, the painted ones Iíve had have always been a more brilliant white while the engraved lenses have always got a bit more dinginess to them, so maybe itís a good trade.



Mar 15, 2018 at 04:46 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Thanks guys, exactly what I wanted from reduser:

"The AEís (generally having serials in high 5ís, until mid to high 6ís) look a bit more organic to me, and def flare more. The 85 2.8 AE for example flares A LOT (which I love), whereas the MM does not (they fixed that!). MMís, especially later ones (8s, 9s, etc), can look a bit cleaner, more modern. But itís subtle..."

I've owned 2 100 f2 MMJs and 2 35 1.4 MMJs. I don't even know what my 50 1.7 is...I should check when I get home.





Mar 15, 2018 at 05:29 PM
rico
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


The S85 has an interesting build history and might be the only CZ C/Y that was cost reduced (in a minor way) during the 30-year production run. Started at Oberkochen as AE with the usual metal aperture control ring (engraved), moved to Japan as MM, ended back at Oberkochen as MM (plastic ring with silkscreening). The plastic appeared sometime during the MM era and is equivalent to a couple of other low-end primes, e.g. P50/1.7. I don't recall ever seeing a S85 MMG. Don't read too much into optical performance: my AE lenses don't flare noticeably more.


Mar 15, 2018 at 06:34 PM
mawz
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Remember, if you shoot Sony there's a third option for the 85/2.8, the A mount 85/2.8 SAM is the same optical formulation, with closer (0.6m) focusing.

Super cheap build (and price) and the colours are a little more muted than the C/Y version, but quite a good performer and just about the best close focusing of any non-Macro 85. And it's a SAM lens, so AF on the non-SLT adapter.



Mar 15, 2018 at 06:37 PM
AdaptedLenses
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Great lens but found at least one copy of each to be not as sharp as the CY.

mawz wrote:
Remember, if you shoot Sony there's a third option for the 85/2.8, the A mount 85/2.8 SAM is the same optical formulation, with closer (0.6m) focusing.

Super cheap build (and price) and the colours are a little more muted than the C/Y version, but quite a good performer and just about the best close focusing of any non-Macro 85. And it's a SAM lens, so AF on the non-SLT adapter.




Mar 15, 2018 at 07:58 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


mawz wrote:
Remember, if you shoot Sony there's a third option for the 85/2.8, the A mount 85/2.8 SAM is the same optical formulation, with closer (0.6m) focusing.

Super cheap build (and price) and the colours are a little more muted than the C/Y version, but quite a good performer and just about the best close focusing of any non-Macro 85. And it's a SAM lens, so AF on the non-SLT adapter.


I actually own that lens right now, and have for the last year. It's very sharp and small, but it fringes worse than the CY and the Sony rendering is much flatter than the G90 I shot in good light recently. So looking for cy 85 copy...




Mar 15, 2018 at 09:08 PM
Sam_W
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


They did make S85 MMGs, but a very late 8,xxx,xxx serial run, so early 2000s, if I'm not mistaken. I used to own one, and sold it on here a couple of years ago.

Lovely lens.



Mar 15, 2018 at 09:27 PM
Audii-Dudii
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Another factor to consider for some applications is that Leitax only makes replacement bayonet mounts for the MM lenses and not the AE ones.


Mar 16, 2018 at 12:27 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


I haven't usedthe 85 zeiss, but my 50 Volna macro has some pretty crazy ninja star bokeh. But it's only crazy at like f/3.5. Wide open, its not there, aperture blades are retracted, and it's probably gone by f/5.6 or maybe even 4 or close.

The Zeiss may be similar, if you can avoid a small range of apertures, might not be a problem.



Mar 16, 2018 at 12:53 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


The small 175 gram SAM 85/2.8 is great value for money. Here is a reasonable test, and you can see the nifty black crinkle finish on the plastic mount - very stealth! Its got an orange ring too, and motivates back and forth using a motor. The front of it moves beneath your fingers when this happens, not helping usability a lot.

http://kurtmunger.com/sony_85mm_f_2_8_reviewid189.html



Mar 17, 2018 at 12:40 AM
chris9
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


I own a C/Y Planar 1.4 85 AEG. It is one of my most used lenses.
https://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/camera-lenses/files/service/download-center/datasheets/historical-lenses/contax-yashica/datasheet-zeiss-planar-1485-en.pdf
My AEG 1.4 85 has ninja stars at f2, f2.8 and f4. At f1.4 it is round wide open. at f5.6, 8, 11, 16 it shows the octagon of the 8 blades.

The C/Y 2.8 85 which I dont own is smaller and lighter than the 1.4.
https://www.zeissimages.com/mtf/cy/Sonnar2.8_85mm_e.pdf
Beside the ninja stars to be expected at f4 and f5.6 with the AE version I would not expect any major difference between the MM and AE. For the same price and condition I would go for the MM as it is newer. The MTF's of the Planar and Sonnar 85 is about identical at f5.6. The C/Y 2.8 85 seems to have only 6 blades versus the 8 blades of the 1.4 Planar and it seems they do not fully open at f2.8 as discussed here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1379820

Another option would be the C/Y 3.5 100 which is also a Sonnar like the C/Y 2.8 85. It has 6 blades. I clearly prefer my 1.4 85 AE over my 3.5 100 AE as it is a more universal focal length and I can use f2 and f2.8 - f1.4 I do not use because of abundant purple fringing.



Mar 18, 2018 at 02:30 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Here's a comparison of the Contax Planar 50/1.4 AE vs. MM, at f/2 (i.e. one-stop down). It's pretty consistent, between AE and MM versions.

Most of my Contax lenses are/were MM versions, because, (i) no ninja star, and (ii) a Leitax mount kiit is probably available. The only AE lens I've seen that doesn't have ninja star is the PC-Distagon 35/2.8 C/Y.



© jcolwell 2018


Ninja star, Contax Planar 50mm f/1.4: left, AEJ; right MMJ




Mar 18, 2018 at 09:42 AM
chris9
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Checked my AE versions.

My AE Planar 1.7 50 has only very very moderate Ninja Stars and only at f2
My AE Sonnar 3.5 100 has ninja stars only at f4
My AE S-Planar 2.8 60 has ninja stars only at f4

It Is confirmed here https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-carl-zeiss-planar-17-50-t-c-y/ that AE 1.7 50 has no ninja star problem. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-zeiss-sonnar-t-100mm-f3-5-cy/ confirms AE Sonnar 3.5 100 has ninja stars only at f4.

The question here is if the AE Sonnar 2.8 85 has ninja stars? Here is a report which states that the AE 2.8 85 has no ninja stars. http://forum.mflenses.com/question-contax-85-1-4-versus-85-2-8-t36539.html. Maybe somebody can confirm. My 1.4 85 definitely has ninja stars!

According to http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92044-Contax-Zeiss-Survival-Guide:
"only the 2.8 25, 2.8 28, 2.8 135 and 2.0 135 have been improved officially when moving from AE to MM. The 2.8 180 and 1.7 50 also are rumored to be improved when moved from AE to MM."

The AE 2.8 85 is reported to have a flare issue http://slrlensreview.com/web/reviews/carl-zeiss-lenses-swhorizontalmenu-172/zeiss-telephoto/407-carl-zeiss-sonnar-t-85mm-f28-cy-lens-review?showall=&start=1

Edited on Mar 18, 2018 at 09:25 PM · View previous versions



Mar 18, 2018 at 07:13 PM
chris9
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?82392-CONTAX-ZEISS-LIKE-SUPERSPEEDS:
"when the MM's flare, you are more likely to get a purple Zeissian "splotch". Whereas the AE's tend to flare, almost bloom, very white and evenly. Looks great.)"



Mar 18, 2018 at 08:49 PM
Tri Tran
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Had this lense a while back, don't remember which version
Contax Zeiss Sonnar 85mm f2.8 423 by Tri Tran, on Flickr

Contax Zeiss Sonnar 85mm f2.8 425 by Tri Tran, on Flickr

Contax Zeiss Sonnar 85mm f2.8 409 by Tri Tran, on Flickr

Contax Zeiss Sonnar 85mm f2.8 431 by Tri Tran, on Flickr



Mar 19, 2018 at 01:57 AM
jhg photo
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Mine is still AEG version, has 6 aperture blades, and never causes ninja star-type shape.
It turned out as a quite impressive performer, just slightly below the 1.4 85 planar.



Mar 19, 2018 at 03:38 AM
jhg photo
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · CY 85 2.8 MMJ or AEG


Mine is still AEG version, has 6 aperture blades, and never causes ninja star-type shape.
It turned out as a quite impressive performer, just slightly below the 1.4 85 planar.



Mar 19, 2018 at 03:38 AM
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