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Archive 2018 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Egor
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Just out of the box, learning the ropes this week with new A7R3 and did a quick comparison on a wine club job.
Nothing standardized just on-the-fly-out-of-the-box but I must say I am impressed!

Images on left are shot with the A7R3/90Macro f11 processed in C1v11
Images on right are shot with the PhaseOne IQ3-100TriChromatic/SK120 Macro AF f11 processed in C1v11

I sized the IQ shot down over 50% to match size of Sony output

Initial thoughts are that the Sony does an outstanding job and has a slightly different cooler balance to its colors (both neutralized to same Macbeth graycard. Not better or worse, just different palette which I can equalize with minimal effort.
SK120 beats the FE 90 Macro across the board but not a blowout by any means
C1 controls of P1 camera more refined than on Sony camera but still learning the ropes so maybe just need more time with it.

In any case, I am so far very pleased with my new back-up camera in the studio. More testing to come especially in those location moving people shoots where I expect the Sony to really shine.

Note: These are raw captures before any post cleanup or usual grill polishing and masking. just showing sooc here

Mar 10, 2018 at 03:34 PM

Beni
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Did you use pixel shift with the A7r3?

Mar 11, 2018 at 02:42 AM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Beni wrote:
Did you use pixel shift with the A7r3?

I guess the OP did not but indeed, that shooting condition begs for the pixel shift feature to be used.

Mar 11, 2018 at 07:05 AM

Egor
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Beni wrote:
Did you use pixel shift with the A7r3?

Hi Beni, No, not yet. I am aware of it but am putting the new cam thru its paces and learning the basics of it before moving on to its more advanced features like pixel shift (same as multi-shot on Hasselblads and Imacon systems I have used). I expect that technique will yield incredible detail and accuracy but at the cost of extra time spent and clunky software (but I don't know yet, its scheduled for that test on this coming Tuesday)
In my experience that technique does yield amazing results but is not practical for a busy studio environment like mine.

Thats why we spend the big bucks on systems like the IQ3-100TriC. It yields similar accuracy and detail as scan back or multi-shot in a single pop...no compromises...but costs 10x the Sony! Still the money is made up for on the back end in post-proc as 0 time spent color correcting etc.

For now, my studio and the Sony are just on our "first date"

but everything looks promising!

Mar 11, 2018 at 09:47 AM

gigio
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Well, the Sony macro stands very well against the Schneider-Kreuznach! That blue ring lens is incredibly sharp yet the 90 Sony is very close in terms of sharpness...I will definitely be waiting for your tests with the Pixel shift 😀

Mar 12, 2018 at 04:06 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

A convincing win, you may get some back in post. A clear exposition of the effects of micro-contrast also on show here, the shape of the curve of the bottle is far more authentic, details appear that do not exist in the other image, enhanced apparent depth. These aspects render the better image more 'optically trustworthy'. Thanks for sharing, that's amazing.

Mar 12, 2018 at 04:17 PM

Egor
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

yes, the Sony/90 has what I would refer to as "apparent sharpness"; whereas the SK120 shows what I refer to as "actual sharpness". See the slight halos around the type on the Sony/90 image on left? That kind of thing...
Also remember that the P1/SK120 images are sized down 42% of original just to be similar size. So I don't know what that may have caused.
All in all though, like I said, pretty impressive for a tenth the cost!

I still like the P1/SK120 for work in the studio, but in a pinch this Sony/90 combo will do just fine and no one the wiser I bet!

I will do the pixel shift test tomorrow as well as my personal favorite I am looking forward to which is the HSS test with the Godox. Never had that option before.

Mar 12, 2018 at 07:11 PM

Egor
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

OK, so failure to launch testing the pixel shift option today

1. Downloaded the "Imaging Edge" software for Mac
2. Turned the camera to USB Connection to "PC Remote"
3. Checked operation and connection using CaptureOne v.11.1 all good 2 go
4. Quit C1v.11.1
5. Launched Imaging Edge Remote App to tested connected Sony A7R3
6. Imaging Edge Remote said "Not Connected, turn setting to PC Remote" (it was)

Fiddled with multiple settings for an hour or two and gave up.

Any suggestions?

Note: Camera works fine tethered to CaptureOne but funny thing, it doesn't list lens information, its like it doesn't know what lens is connected...Sony FE 90 Macro AF G OSS
Not sure why that is but don't know how to get that info across.

Seems to connect if I set to "Mass Storage" setting but then what to do with that I don't know. Otherwise, unless I launch C1 it just spins and spins saying "Connecting..." but never does

"No Lens Information" ??? Its the Sony FE 90 Macro

Mar 13, 2018 at 07:56 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Egor wrote:
OK, so failure to launch testing the pixel shift option today

1. Downloaded the "Imaging Edge" software for Mac
2. Turned the camera to USB Connection to "PC Remote"
3. Checked operation and connection using CaptureOne v.11.1 all good 2 go
4. Quit C1v.11.1
5. Launched Imaging Edge Remote App to tested connected Sony A7R3
6. Imaging Edge Remote said "Not Connected, turn setting to PC Remote" (it was)

Fiddled with multiple settings for an hour or two and gave up.

Any suggestions?

Note: Camera works fine tethered to CaptureOne but funny thing, it doesn't list lens information, its like it doesn't know what lens is...Show more →

I have not tried the adobe software on this. You might check out Iridient Developer or do a search for there is another option. I think many are waiting for LR or PS or C1 support for Pixel shift as Sony's implementation is poor.

Mar 14, 2018 at 02:51 PM

Egor
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Luvwine wrote:
I have not tried the adobe software on this. You might check out Iridient Developer or do a search for there is another option. I think many are waiting for LR or PS or C1 support for Pixel shift as Sony's implementation is poor.

Thanks Luvwine. I will check into it.
I got it to work today on some art repro captures, but man what a hassle to get that out of it. In the end, not worth it, but I will post results in a bit. Its impressive camera and the pixel shift tech is great, but on art repro, which is probably one of the toughest tests for any camera system to get right...it did not stack up against the IQ3-100TriChrome...not even close. But thats OK, it could just be operator error on my part and I am still learning.

e

Mar 14, 2018 at 07:32 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Egor wrote:
Thanks Luvwine. I will check into it.
I got it to work today on some art repro captures, but man what a hassle to get that out of it. In the end, not worth it, but I will post results in a bit. Its impressive camera and the pixel shift tech is great, but on art repro, which is probably one of the toughest tests for any camera system to get right...it did not stack up against the IQ3-100TriChrome...not even close. But thats OK, it could just be operator error on my part and I am still learning.

e

One issue with the Sony software is that it is clunky and applies a large amount of sharpening. Other methods are better from what I gather. The pixel shift does have a positive effect upon color to me, but work will be required to get workflow right. The files also will take a lot more sharpening, if desired, than single images. Nice to have more control over that than the Sony software allows.

Mar 14, 2018 at 08:52 PM

Holger
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Egor wrote:
OK, so failure to launch testing the pixel shift option today

1. Downloaded the "Imaging Edge" software for Mac
2. Turned the camera to USB Connection to "PC Remote"
3. Checked operation and connection using CaptureOne v.11.1 all good 2 go
4. Quit C1v.11.1
5. Launched Imaging Edge Remote App to tested connected Sony A7R3
6. Imaging Edge Remote said "Not Connected, turn setting to PC Remote" (it was)

Fiddled with multiple settings for an hour or two and gave up.

Any suggestions?

Note: Camera works fine tethered to CaptureOne but funny thing, it doesn't list lens information, its like it doesn't know what lens is...Show more →

Maybe this works
https://www.dpreview.com/news/9951454293/sonypixelshift2dng-combines-a7r-iii-pixel-shift-shots-into-dng-files

Mar 15, 2018 at 12:58 AM

Egor
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Yes, the work-around I used had us shoot the tethered images using an Older Sony camera control (but C1v11 would have worked just as well I think) and then we used Imaging Edge Viewer to stitch the 4 pixel shifted images together into an .arq file, then we converted the .arq file into a .dng file using the converter, then we processed out in C1v.11...Going to try more today when time allows .

I don't think I am doing it right because the 4 RAW (.arw) images created were all similar full color. I thought they would be RGGB or some such thing but they weren't. So like I original thought, may be more trouble than its worth, or may be just operator error on my part at this stage.

Here are some comparisons doing a single art repro capture with some fine details, teal blues and a macbeth color checker for comparison. The difference was so bad that I think I must be doing something wrong. (Sony in previous test was closer than this)...OTOH, the IQ3-100TriChrome is indeed a superior system for this type of work. It even outshined scan backs and Hasselblad multishot systems we use for doing this sort of thing for museums like The Getty...

Long story short: PhaseOne IQ3-100TriC/SK120 Macro was sharper, cleaner, greater DR and far more accurate color and tonal range than the Sony/90 combo...even with Pixel Shift.

I even tried to make one of those Comparison Slider Thingy

Sony-Left, Phase One-Right

Mar 15, 2018 at 09:10 AM

Egor
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

OK, we got "Imaging Edge Remote" to work now. Its one of those incompatibility things buried somewhere in just that one Mac Pro's OS (High Sierra) I don't know what is in my operating system that was blocking it but when I just moved over to a guest user it worked fine.

I tested on other computers in the studio and all is good, its just that particular mac and that particular user/admin Login

So only a few days wasted trying to figure that out...sigh

Will test again soon and should be better results with the pixel shift

Mar 15, 2018 at 03:30 PM

jamato8
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Seems to be more going on than just different systems (the Sony and PhaseOne). Exposure and color shift, which give a different perception of imaging between the two.

Mar 15, 2018 at 03:40 PM

Egor
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

jamato8 wrote:
Seems to be more going on than just different systems (the Sony and PhaseOne). Exposure and color shift, which give a different perception of imaging between the two.

Most likely, as its definitely not a very scientific test comparison.

The lighting was identical, the exposure was identical, but the lenses were different and the sensors were different. Add to that that the PhaseOne was single pop raw processed directly through C1v11; whereas the Sony-PixelShift was a total Rube-Goldberg progression of events and the image could and probably did degrade at multiple points along the way..
The new tests should show better for the Sony

Mar 15, 2018 at 03:59 PM

osv2
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

Egor wrote:
Images on left are shot with the A7R3/90Macro f11
Images on right are shot with the PhaseOne IQ3-100TriChromatic/SK120 Macro AF f11

just an fyi, the fe90 is at it's sharpest across the image plane at f/5.6, not f/11... you can see that in the dxo sharpness profile, at those apertures. https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-FE-90mm-F28-Macro-G-OSS-on-Sony-A7R-II__1517_1035

setting both lenses at f/11 means that there is a mis-match in the actual dof, which is also a problem... as was re-sizing the p1 image, the better solution would have been to move the camera to match the fov.

Mar 15, 2018 at 07:19 PM

Egor
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Quickie Comparison A7R3/90Macro vs PhaseOne IQ3-100/120Macro

osv2 wrote:
just an fyi, the fe90 is at it's sharpest across the image plane at f/5.6, not f/11... you can see that in the dxo sharpness profile, at those apertures. https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-FE-90mm-F28-Macro-G-OSS-on-Sony-A7R-II__1517_1035

setting both lenses at f/11 means that there is a mis-match in the actual dof, which is also a problem... as was re-sizing the p1 image, the better solution would have been to move the camera to match the fov.

osv2, I have no doubt you are right about that.
Im not much of a "test guy" just thought I'd share just showing actual pro use in the studio.

I will try and make those adjustments for the next test. I'm sure the Sony 90 will fair well once things are evened up. The SK120 is a phenomenal performing lens, I don't know what DXO tests on it say but seems sharp across the entire range. I will test it at f8 and the FE90 at f5.6 next time. I will also try and move the camera closer or use our IQ250 or IQ140 for closer comparison, but the new IQ3-100TriChromatic is new in the studio and made to get as close as possible to a multipop true color, but in 1 shot. That makes it more viable professionally.

I really like the Sony and am impressed.

Mar 15, 2018 at 07:59 PM


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