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Archive 2018 · . What is Image Quality . ?

  
 
Jefferson
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · . What is Image Quality . ?


.. What is it really..? Is it "in the eye of the beholder" ..? Is it a technical definition ..? How far can IQ be taken ..?
As today's cameras go through evolutionary development, what are the limits and how perceptible will the increases be in future models ..?

Jefferson ..



Jan 15, 2018 at 08:11 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · . What is Image Quality . ?


My a7r III has it.

EBH



Jan 15, 2018 at 08:22 PM
bcguy
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · . What is Image Quality . ?


You've opened a big can of worms here! Quality is a difficult thing to define. See "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," by Robert Persig. It's a good start to the discussion. ''

To me, quality is what works for you.



Jan 15, 2018 at 09:04 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · . What is Image Quality . ?


Technical IQ is pretty easy to objectively measure. Resolution, read noise, dynamic range, etc. all combine to make up what we ultimately see as IQ. The latest Sony/Nikon sensors at the top of the heap have come close to hitting a wall, as they all perform similarly when resolution is normalized. At this point they are all mostly using the same technology and are just optimized for specific applications. Canon has much better sensors from where they were a few years ago, but still have a little ways to go yet at the extremes of both ISO and DR. Generally none of this stuff is an issue for the average shooter. I'm sure everyone will continue to edge out incremental improvements every few years, but to see any huge gains in the areas we currently look at I think we will need some all-new technology. Mostly what we've been seeing lately is the MP count go up, but with IQ either maintained or slightly improved, which is in itself an accomplishment.

The other side of IQ is of course sharpness, which is more a function of the lens used, accurate focus, and slight gains made by removing the AA filters. Sharpness is pretty easy for anyone to see if presented with a comparison, and is mostly objective.

The subjective aspects are basically PP related, like color tones or saturation, which are very easily manipulated with a simple RAW profile to match one's personal tastes. IMO IQ is mostly an objective analysis with subjectivity mostly in the areas that are quickly and easily manipulated by the user.



Jan 16, 2018 at 12:11 PM
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · . What is Image Quality . ?


"Egon, this isn't fun! I've had fun! This isn't it!" (Peter Venkman, The Real Ghostbusters)



Jan 16, 2018 at 12:50 PM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · . What is Image Quality . ?


Great dynamic range usually translates into a poor photograph as it has no good black, which to me is usually required to provide visual snap, sharpness, and contrast to make the image look good. So it will depend on whether you are talking about a final image (as in a print or a final image on a website) or the image straight out from the sensor.


Jan 16, 2018 at 01:23 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · . What is Image Quality . ?


Robin Smith wrote:
Great dynamic range usually translates into a poor photograph as it has no good black, which to me is usually required to provide visual snap, sharpness, and contrast to make the image look good. So it will depend on whether you are talking about a final image (as in a print or a final image on a website) or the image straight out from the sensor.


Great dynamic range (if present) exists whether or not you PP the image to the max. Also, even small shadow/highlight adjustments look better if the DR leeway is higher and the noise floor is lower. It is one of those things where it is *always* better to have more of, all else being equal.

What you describe as a poor photograph is entirely subjective, where as DR is an objective measurement. One area where it can really help is to salvage an important photograph that was underexposed by mistake, for example. It's always better to have that option, even if the bigger adjustments are typically not to your tastes.



Jan 16, 2018 at 01:48 PM
rw11
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · . What is Image Quality . ?


nobody has mentioned that you need Bokeh like buttah


Jan 16, 2018 at 01:48 PM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · . What is Image Quality . ?


What you describe as a poor photograph is entirely subjective, where as DR is an objective measurement.

That was precisely the whole point of my comment. If I look at a photo or hold one in my hand and I say that has "great/poor image quality", the processing has probably made it so. An unprocessed file may not be a good photograph, but I could still examine it and say it has great quality. My point is "image quality" is not a term with a fixed meaning: it depends entirely on the context. We do not disagree. Personally, I am more interested in what makes a good photo, and a vast dynamic range does not, in itself, make a good photo (but it can help you to make one sometimes).



Jan 16, 2018 at 02:00 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · . What is Image Quality . ?


EB-1 wrote:
My a7r III has it.

EBH


I didn't even know they made a iii yet. That's how far out of the loop I am. I'm still shooting my old 1DXs.



Jan 16, 2018 at 02:10 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · . What is Image Quality . ?


CanadaMark wrote:
Technical IQ is pretty easy to objectively measure. Resolution, read noise, dynamic range, etc. all combine to make up what we ultimately see as IQ. ...
... The subjective aspects are basically PP related, like color tones or saturation, which are very easily manipulated with a simple RAW profile to match one's personal tastes. IMO IQ is mostly an objective analysis with subjectivity mostly in the areas that are quickly and easily manipulated by the user.


.. So image quality is closely related to resolution which is dependent on the current available technology .. body/lens ..
then subjectivity (personal input), is added with post work to bring about a high quality image that fits into a set of pre-defined criteria.




Jan 16, 2018 at 05:27 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · . What is Image Quality . ?


bcguy wrote:
You've opened a big can of worms here! Quality is a difficult thing to define. See "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," by Robert Persig. It's a good start to the discussion. ''

To me, quality is what works for you.


Or just ask me - Zen

Edited on Jan 16, 2018 at 05:39 PM · View previous versions



Jan 16, 2018 at 05:33 PM
dalite
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · . What is Image Quality . ?


bcguy wrote:
You've opened a big can of worms here! Quality is a difficult thing to define. See "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," by Robert Persig. It's a good start to the discussion. ''

To me, quality is what works for you.

______





Jan 16, 2018 at 05:36 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · . What is Image Quality . ?


CanadaMark wrote:
Technical IQ is pretty easy to objectively measure. Resolution, read noise, dynamic range, etc. all combine to make up what we ultimately see as IQ. The latest Sony/Nikon sensors at the top of the heap have come close to hitting a wall, as they all perform similarly when resolution is normalized. At this point they are all mostly using the same technology and are just optimized for specific applications. Canon has much better sensors from where they were a few years ago, but still have a little ways to go yet at the extremes of both ISO and DR. Generally
...Show more

I think software and technique add to a lot to the 3 phases of sharpening. This is the first thing I look at when I try stuff out. Not saying that is correct, just most important to me.



Jan 16, 2018 at 05:38 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · . What is Image Quality . ?


Jefferson wrote:
.. So image quality is closely related to resolution which is dependent on the current available technology .. body/lens ..
then subjectivity (personal input), is added with post work to bring about a high quality image that fits into a set of pre-defined criteria.



Yeah I can't really see anything wrong with that statement, at least in my opinion

Basically the better the objective measures are, the more options you have for end use and the greater leeway you have for PP or if you need to salvage an image. You want to collect as much information as you possibly can when you take a picture is really what it comes down to, and it's a function of all the previously mentioned things. Better sensors, cameras, and lenses all help you do that. That's how I see it anyway.



Jan 16, 2018 at 05:47 PM
Ruffo
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · . What is Image Quality . ?


Image quality is looking at a 16mm piece of Kodachrome in three dimensions through a VIEWMASTER in 1975!

For you old timers who know what I am referring to and how good it looked, imagine medium format Kodachrome viewed through a new Viewmaster designed by Leica.





Jan 16, 2018 at 09:06 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · . What is Image Quality . ?


What you think you see.


Jan 16, 2018 at 10:10 PM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · . What is Image Quality . ?


Robin Smith wrote:
Great dynamic range usually translates into a poor photograph as it has no good black


Bollox thats just a matter of correct contrast.



Jan 16, 2018 at 10:16 PM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · . What is Image Quality . ?


bcguy wrote:
You've opened a big can of worms here! Quality is a difficult thing to define


we live in a digital world now, its a very easy thing to define and measure.


edit - what you do with those pixels during and after capture is obviously quite subjective...



Jan 16, 2018 at 10:17 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · . What is Image Quality . ?


Ruffo wrote:
Image quality is looking at a 16mm piece of Kodachrome in three dimensions through a VIEWMASTER in 1975!

For you old timers who know what I am referring to and how good it looked, imagine medium format Kodachrome viewed through a new Viewmaster designed by Leica.


I thought it was two pieces of film per pair.
I had one of the older pre-GAF Viewmasters from a relative and then a GAF in the 1960s. Vendors used to sell the slide discs at tourist destinations. The image quality varied quite a bit from good to rather awful.

EBH




Jan 16, 2018 at 10:25 PM
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