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Archive 2017 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and g...

oguruma
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

TL;DR I need a run-and-gun way of dealing with flash and people wearing glasses. Is the Bounce Wall any good?

I took some photos at a church event on Sunday. Most of the congregation is elderly, that means a lot of glasses...

Of course, angle of incident = angle of reflection, so dealing with the glare from glasses is simple physics.

What's not so simple is a way to deal with quick-staged shots or candids with on camera flash. For a couple of the ladies I used a light stand/pocket wizard/umbrella and it worked magically. My wife pounced like a cheetah and placed my lightstand where I told her to. Worked great.

When that wasn't practical though, I found myself not using the flash. In a dimly-lit church with a not-so-great-at-high-ISO D810, image quality suffered.

So, I started looking for a run-and-gun method of doing this. I remembered a photo my wife and I had taken of us at a show in Vegas. The photographer had a contraption which I recently found out was called the bounce-wall by Sunbounce.

Seems like it would do the trick. The reviews for it aren't great, mostly related to durability. Has anybody used one of these before?

Dec 19, 2017 at 01:07 PM

MASL
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

polarizer - jumps you up in ISO but it works.
-Mark

Dec 19, 2017 at 01:20 PM

GoodEgg
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

Definitely use a VAL as you employed, and/or a flash bracket to keep the flash away from the lens axis. I've seen some photographer's assistants use a flash on a monopod to get the flash into a scene, and above the subjects. Try a diffusion dome on the flash, pointed up. Some rooms just don't have a bouncewall close enough, or have high/dark ceilings that don't return light.

Dec 19, 2017 at 02:53 PM

oguruma
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

GoodEgg wrote:
Definitely use a VAL as you employed, and/or a flash bracket to keep the flash away from the lens axis. I've seen some photographer's assistants use a flash on a monopod to get the flash into a scene, and above the subjects. Try a diffusion dome on the flash, pointed up. Some rooms just don't have a bouncewall close enough, or have high/dark ceilings that don't return light.

I do use a flash bracket, but I find that it doesn't do well at reducing glare, it's still too on-axis to the lens.

Dec 19, 2017 at 02:58 PM

oguruma
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

Another idea I have toyed with is the attaching a superclamp and an articulating arm to my flash bracket...

Then I can have a flash with or without a small softbox off axis and still attached as one unit.

Dec 19, 2017 at 03:36 PM

elkhornsun
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

Best approach overall is to get a good flash bracket that enables the flash to be 8" above the lens. Best ones by far are the ones made by Custom Brackets. Add a Nikon SC-28 cord (third party versions from Vello and others work fine) from the hot shoe to the flash and you are good to go.

Trick is to have the flash providing only fill light for the subjects' eyes to fill in the sockets and add catchlights. Nikon cameras make this super easy to do.

Even with a standard flash there is usually (as with the Nikon SB-800, 900, 910, 5000) a pop-up white plastic card. I use this extended 50 too 100 percent of the way as a way to bounce flash from the speedlight toward my subjects. Partial extension puts more light on the ceiling to bounce down from above but some light still going directly forward to the subjects.

What is most important is to go somewhere with your wife and practice. Churches are great as are hotel lobbies as the high ceilings make it more difficult so if you have it dialed in for such locations then anywhere else will not be a problem. Too many people wait until there is an event and then practice there which is irresponsible.

The books by Neil van Niekerk which are sold on Amazon are one of the best investments you can make in your photography. Neil has shot weddings professionally for many years and his books provide the information he has learned the hard way.

Jan 01, 2018 at 02:38 PM

pasblues
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

Listen to elkhornsun. Practice, experiment and study Neil. He's one of the best flash experts in the business.

You don't need a lot of fancy equipment to be good with the flash - but you do need technique. We used to be in completely unpredictable circumstances on a daily basis and our gear was a single flash with a piece of white paper rubber banded to the flash head of the Visitor 285s. With high ceilings, flash isn't bouncing off of 30' ceilings, it's bouncing on the white paper and filling. Then, you have to choose your ratio between ambient and the flash to get the effect you want.

So much depends on the lighting of the room, the size of the room, the number of subjects, the color of the walls available for bounce and the amount ambient room light, the direction of light, window ambient light, contrast between indoor and outdoor entry lighting, etc.

I rarely would use flash on camera. Tether it with an off-camera shoe or, these days, the radio triggers mean you can put the flash anywhere your arm can point and reach - if you are shooting on the fly.

Shoot, review, shoot, review, shoot, review. Your most powerful learning comes from failures.

Jan 07, 2018 at 02:48 PM

dalite
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

Years ago I have tried bounced flash. Forget it: you need to figure out bounced distances, be near walls, ceilings, etc and make f/stop adjustments) An inexpensive way is to use a diffusion flash attachment e.g., Gary Fong flash attachment, Demb flash diffuser, etc.) these work, but with some practice.

Or you can go all the way with more expensive equipment as mentioned above.

Jan 08, 2018 at 05:00 PM

elkhornsun
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

The only attachments I recommend for standard speedlights are the ones from LumiQuest which fold flat when not in use and are reasonably efficient in getting as much light from the flash as possible to your subject(s).

The Fong stuff wastes 75% of the light output from the flash and this is never a good thing. Recycle times will be much longer and you will get 25% as many flashes per set of batteries.

I use a flash bracket with the 24-70mm and only have the flash on the hot shoe when shooting with the 70-200mm where the camera to subject distance if far enough that I don't have to worry about flash to lens axis alignment.

I rarely use an off camera flash that is truly remote. For this the Quantum FreeXwire provides the most versatility (works with any flash from anyone) and reliability. Problem is that if the flash is remote you need a stand or an assistant with a boom pole (I use a monopod) and that means coordinating with another person and both of you getting around an often crowded venue room to get the shots. Most of the time it is too much work for too few photos that could not have been taken with a simpler setup.

Jan 09, 2018 at 07:10 PM

dalite
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

The Demb saucer Flip-it is not unlike the Lumiquest and I agree light is more directly channeled to bounced surface or directly at subject. It folds flat too, easier than folding the Lumiquest.

Jan 09, 2018 at 11:47 PM

Joe Demb
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

While I have due respect for my competitors, I would like to point out some differences between the Lumequest and my Flip-it. The Lumequest is stationary and provides one lighting effect. The Flip-it uses a hinge, which allows the photographer to control the ratio of light between the reflection off the modifier and that off the ceiling or wall. The Flip-it mounts on the short side of the flash, so you can create directional lighting with a rotating flash. The Lumequest mounts on the long side, so this is not possible. The Lumequest must be removed when you need direct flash. The Flip-it reflector folds back out of the way for direct flash. It was frustration with Lumequest that motivated me to design Flip-it 22 years ago. Joe Demb

Jan 10, 2018 at 08:27 AM

dalite
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

Joe, yours works great for me. That simple design can create some very nice skin tones.

Jan 10, 2018 at 06:32 PM

prairietom
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Bouncewall: Anybody have first hand experience? Or on-camera flash and glasses?

If you are having trouble with reflection from glasses, you have to adjust the angle of the light source to the glasses. All the other stuff for skin tones etc is great, but eye glasses still reflect the softest warmest light. Add to this, most glasses are curved. Frustrating. I like your idea of getting a bounce at an angle, but you might as well just use off camera flash and a stand or assistant if that is what you are doing. Maybe bounce the flash off the ceiling if possible. Good luck.

Jan 10, 2018 at 07:03 PM


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