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Archive 2017 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?

  
 
pompo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


I'm considering whether to get the Profoto Air Remote for the a9 or stick to shooting Canon with Profoto strobes. How is the a9 with mechanical shutter and strobes? I see when on mechanical shutter the evf is pretty laggy...Anyone using Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2? Good or bad?


Nov 23, 2017 at 11:53 AM
Fotografpaul
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


Define pretty laggy ? Have you used the A9 ?

The A9 works fine with strobes, both Elinchrom and Profot have dedicated Sony controllers.




Nov 23, 2017 at 07:18 PM
pompo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


Fotografpaul wrote:
Define pretty laggy ? Have you used the A9 ?

The A9 works fine with strobes, both Elinchrom and Profot have dedicated Sony controllers.



I have two a9, but in mechanical shutter when you move around pan left to right or up and down the EVF is much more slower and it feels laggy...the refresh rate is slower than with electronic shutter..you haven't noticed that? That is what II'm concerned about. Mechanical shutter should have a smoother EVF than when using electronic, not the opposite.

I am aware Profoto have dedicated Air Remote for Sony,



Nov 23, 2017 at 07:30 PM
Fotografpaul
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


pompo wrote:
I have two a9, but in mechanical shutter when you move around pan left to right or up and down the EVF is much more slower and it feels laggy...the refresh rate is slower than with electronic shutter..you haven't noticed that? That is what II'm concerned about. Mechanical shutter should have a smoother EVF than when using electronic, not the opposite.

I am aware Profoto have dedicated Air Remote for Sony,


So what exactly is your question then ? It's not the strobes that makes the EVF "laggy" the A9 works just fine with strobes.






Nov 23, 2017 at 08:09 PM
sungphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


pompo wrote:
I'm considering whether to get the Profoto Air Remote for the a9 or stick to shooting Canon with Profoto strobes. How is the a9 with mechanical shutter and strobes? I see when on mechanical shutter the evf is pretty laggy...Anyone using Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2? Good or bad?


Are you perhaps using the wrong terminology? The EVF does not change in terms of refresh rate regardless of whether you're using mechanical shutter versus electronic shutter. Perhaps you meant continuous shooting frames per second?

It won't matter what strobe you use with the A9 - regardless of whether it's a profoto B1, D2, elinchrom, godox, etc. It doesn't change how the camera behaves.



Nov 24, 2017 at 11:58 AM
pompo
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


Maybe I am using the wrong terminology, I don't know if it is the refresh rate or not but if you shoot a sequence of a moving object with the mechanical shutter the EVF is very laggy. I wonder what it is?

The EVF does not keep up at all, that is why I wonder if I should start shooting with strobes with a9 (which requires me to fork out 400 bucks) in order to get the Profoto Air remote or just keep using the Canon system I still have. Of course if the subject is stationary, shooting one shot at time it should be fine, but if subject is moving fast, keeping it framed right may be very hard, if the EVF cannot keep up with its position.



Nov 24, 2017 at 12:59 PM
Fotografpaul
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


The fps is different with mechanical shutter yes, by the sound of it you experience the EVF to be more or less useless with mechanical shutter.

The settings you need for most shooting with strobes will make the EVF behave differently yes. This is not a fault, nor is a limitation per se.

Electronic shutter:
Keeping the shutter above 1/250 will give you smoother EVF the refresh rate of the screen is affected by the shutter speed according to the manual.

Mechanical shutter:
Is limited to 5fps and does have blackout, considering it's usually also between 1/125-1/250 im assuming the refresh rate will be affected as well. (using HS or HSS might negate that a little)

So yes you will not get the same refresh rate/smoothness with mechanical shutter. It's how the camera is designed.

BUT there are plenty of cameras that have blackouts when shooting high fps, also shooting more than 5fps with strobes isn't exactly common. Tracking is still doable with a lot of cameras that has blackout due so there is really no reason it couldn't be done with the A9.

I really don't see a scenario shooting with strobes that would require the same speed, fps and tracking as when you shoot live sports with electronic shutter.

Could you explain what you are trying (give us the setup scenario) to do and we might be able to solve it for you, but right now it sounds like you talk about a hypothetical issue ?







Nov 24, 2017 at 04:02 PM
pompo
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


I shot with strobes a month ago an actor that was walking and moving left to right back and forth but I m not sure I'l be able to keep the subject in focus if I can't see where he is at because the laggy EVF. I shot that with Profoto D2 and 5D Mark III. If you hold down the shutter at medium or low drive speed and pan while you do that you can see how slow the EVF is. It doesn't necessarily need to be a sport shoot. If it were a car moving you wouldn't be able to track it on mech shutter. It is an hypothetical issue based on what I see when shooting mech shutter. There are a lot of possible scenarios where high speed drive might be needed even for studio shoots, where action and moving are key ingredient the a9 does not seem to be the best candidate for it.


Nov 24, 2017 at 04:23 PM
Fotografpaul
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


pompo wrote:
I shot with strobes a month ago an actor that was walking and moving left to right back and forth but I m not sure I'l be able to keep the subject in focus if I can't see where he is at because the laggy EVF. I shot that with Profoto D2 and 5D Mark III. If you hold down the shutter at medium or low drive speed and pan while you do that you can see how slow the EVF is. It doesn't necessarily need to be a sport shoot. If it were a car moving you wouldn't be
...Show more


So there were no issues with the 5D then? Focus tracking is not at all dependent on what you see, framing sure but then you subject must be moving quite fast. Most sports/action photographer I know has the skill to anticipate movement and don't use their eyes to exactly frame the shot but rather a panning motion matching the subject.

The A9 is certainly not the best studio camera, but again high-speed shoots in studios are rarely dependent on af regardless. And to shoot anything more then 5fps you will need some serious punch to get the strobes to give you consistent output.

if you can't work with the A9 under these conditions get another body for your flash work.

Best of luck.



Nov 24, 2017 at 04:43 PM
pompo
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


no, the 5d have slower focus but at least the OVF let me see the subjects. I will find out if the a7r III has a faster mech shutter EVF. Thanks!


Nov 24, 2017 at 04:49 PM
Fotografpaul
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


Don't think the the A7RIII is different in this regard iv tested both with flash/mechanical shutter. But i still have hard time understanding why it would be hard, I can shoot the A99ii with mechanical shutter and keep a subject centered in frame with the blackouts/lag no problem at all. Just match the speed of the subject.

If you try it without flash you can't track a car or a human walking/running ?

I'v shot with EVF since they were introduced with the SLT design. Now given I'm not a sports photographer but I do shoot 99% with strobes and some of it involves motions as well. And I never missed framing due to blackout/lagg so I truly believe it's something you can master, but again if it's something you will do regularly and you can't stand it. Get a traditional camera with a optical VF.




Nov 24, 2017 at 04:59 PM
pompo
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


i always shoot silent shutter, 99.9% on movie sets, so I don't think I can track in mech shutter a moving car going sideways but I will try just for the heck of it and see. Once we will have global shutter we should be able to use electronic shutter with strobes, finally.


Nov 24, 2017 at 05:05 PM
sungphoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2?


pompo wrote:
I'm considering whether to get the Profoto Air Remote for the a9 or stick to shooting Canon with Profoto strobes. How is the a9 with mechanical shutter and strobes? I see when on mechanical shutter the evf is pretty laggy...Anyone using Sony a9 with Profoto B1 or D2? Good or bad?


I think you are perhaps confusing/combining sensor readout, EVF lag time, EVF refresh rate.

The EVF refresh rate - meaning how may times per second the electronic viewfinder refreshes itself, does not change whether you use the mechanical shutter or electronic shutter.

There is a lag, even with the best EVFs on the market like on the A9 and Leica Q, that is noticeable on fast moving subjects. Again though, this occurs regardless of whether you are using strobes, continuous lighting, or available light. Again, this lag has no relation to whether you are using a mechanical shutter versus an electronic shutter - also moot point as you of course cannot use strobes with the electronic shutter.

So in other words, this is not a challenge with the strobe (and getting a B1 or D2 won't help resolve it), it's a limitation of current EVF technology. I personally prefer to shoot with an OVF when using strobes primarily because the WYSIWYG aspect of an EVF is moot when using off camera lighting.



Nov 25, 2017 at 07:54 PM





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