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Archive 2017 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender

  
 
Wildbruce
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Hey everyone,

I'm contemplating the purchase of the Canon 100-400 version II lens along with the 1.4x version III extender to use on a Canon 80D. I plan to photograph fast moving wildlife (BIF) and some sports. For those of you who have used this combination, do they work well together? Does the autofocus and image stabilization still work OK? Is there any degradation of image quality with the addition of the extender?




Nov 15, 2017 at 01:49 AM
Johnwocher
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Greetings - I had this lens, and the answer is yes, yes, yes, and.... there will be varied opinions on how much the 1.4X affects image quality. For me it was acceptable and quite good. I traded it in for a 200-400 with the internal 1.4X, and love it. But the 100-400 is much easier for BIF.
Cheers,
John




Nov 15, 2017 at 02:47 AM
RogerZoul
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


I always choose to NOT use an extender if I don't have severe reach issues (depending on location, there are plenty of opportunities for BIF where not using the TC works just fine). The bare lens and camera work better & faster without the TC. However, the combination can yield acceptable results in good light. You have to decide if you like the operation of the system and the IQ, with the TC in your locations. It is a personal choice.


Nov 15, 2017 at 06:02 AM
technic
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Wildbruce wrote:
Hey everyone,

I'm contemplating the purchase of the Canon 100-400 version II lens along with the 1.4x version III extender to use on a Canon 80D. I plan to photograph fast moving wildlife (BIF) and some sports. For those of you who have used this combination, do they work well together? Does the autofocus and image stabilization still work OK? Is there any degradation of image quality with the addition of the extender?



I own these but I would not use the TC combo for fast moving wildlife; the AF struggles even with relatively smooth background. IS is great, and the IQ degradation with extender is probably a minor issue when you are dealing with fast moving subjects.



Nov 15, 2017 at 06:09 AM
MatthewK
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


80D + 1.4xIII + 100-400II make for an excellent setup. With the 80D, this combo will afford you 27 AF points at f/8, with the center 9 being cross-type. As others said above, you'll definitely notice a loss of some AF consistency if shooting w/ the TC, but if your target is contrasty enough it should lock on OK.

I've noticed a few things with the combo that really helped with getting better results:

1) shoot at a higher shutter speed than the usual 1/focal-length. I like to be 1/1000 or faster.
2) MFA
3) use the center point if AF starts hunting, especially in low light, low contrast situations.
4) shoot the bare lens whenever possible

I haven't noticed any IQ degradation from TC use.



Nov 15, 2017 at 06:34 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Basic shutter speed rule would be 1 / (focal length * crop factor * extender), so 1 / (400 * 1.6 * 1.4) would yield a basic shutter speed to negate movement to be 1/900th or faster, so your 1/1000th speed is right on the money.

Granted there is IS, so you can bring that down a bit if you had to (not you personally, you generally).



Nov 15, 2017 at 06:41 AM
MatthewK
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Crap, I forgot about the crop (factor)




Nov 15, 2017 at 06:48 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


This is my combo. As noted, the penalty in AF with the TC is probably more noticeable than the penalty in image IQ with the TC. Proximity will be a factor here also, as the greater distances will take a bit more of a hit with the TC, than it reveals in the closer distances.

IQ is fine, imo. I ran this combo along side a Sigma 150-600C for about 3 months before I decided to go with the 100-400 + TC route.

For BIF (which I'm not well versed in), I would not look to the 80D as my BIF body. For that, I'd think you'd want the 7D2 or 1DX series body (maybe 5D4 or 1D4). As to the lens combo, it is a nice combo ... the next step up, is gonna be "Big White" territory.

Everything's better without the TC, but the TC doesn't "ruin things", it just lowers the bar just a tad. Since the TC is functionally "spreading out" the incoming light, it means that your camera is working with reduced contrast light. As Roger mentioned, good light is a factor. How much signal your body is receiving (5.6 + TC = f/8) will impact how things go.

Sunny 16 (EV 15) @ f/8 will be much different from dusky / shadows at EV10 @ f/8. Notice that the ^2 of EV15 vs. f/8 is about a 9 stop spread (i.e. f/8 = 6 stop reduction @ 1, 1.4, 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8). Losing the TC, puts you at f/5.6 (5 stop reduction), and your spread is then 10 stops, so you have a stronger contrast signal reaching your body.

EV 10 @ f/8 cuts your signal down to about a 4 stop spread.

With that in mind, do not expect that an f/8 signal from the 100-400 + TC will AF BIF in EV 12 light (6 stop spread), like a 300/2.8 in EV 15 light will (12 stop spread). In EV 15 light, your f/8 spread will be 9 stops at best case scenario with the TC. So, if you're expecting a 5.6 lens + TC to work as well as a 2.8, you might be foolin' yourself a bit. But, with the expectation that you're trying to AF @ f/8, feed it decent light, and you'll get decent results. Lower light, will generate correspondingly lower performance.

That said, losing the TC will always garner you a 1 stop gain in signal to your body. In good light, it might not be that noticeable. In lower light, it can make more of a diff.

80D + 100-400 II + TC ... I'm keeping mine.

HTH



Nov 15, 2017 at 07:05 AM
CW100
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


technic wrote:
I own these but I would not use the TC combo for fast moving wildlife; the AF struggles even with relatively smooth background. IS is great, and the IQ degradation with extender is probably a minor issue when you are dealing with fast moving subjects.


I would also not use an extender /teleconverter for BIF shots on the 100-400

www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless



Nov 15, 2017 at 12:59 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


I would rate the combo as fairly good but not excellent. Without the TC it is better.


















Nov 15, 2017 at 04:34 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Interesting post Rusty, what made you finally decide to stay with the 100-400II and TC? I don't have a Canon 1.4xIII, but do have the 2x. I have old Kenkos that actually work pretty well too. I keep thinking about the 100-400 II, but I kinda miss the push/pull and I like having 600mm on the Sigma, so I can't decide whether to stay with what I have, or move to the Canon.


Nov 15, 2017 at 06:20 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Yeah, I had (still do) a pair of Kenko's (well, one died electronically) ... I digress.

The thing that made me go with the 100-400 II + 1.4X TC III over the Siggy was a couple things.

First, I probably should mention how I progressed through my assessment.

At the time, I was shooting a 700D (Rebel), so I could NOT AF the Canon + TC combo @ f/8. So, that aspect didn't factor in (not directly, anyway).

Basically, I shot a variety of apertures, both hand held and tripod based with images ranging from basketball nets and people a block away, to wood grain in telephone poles in the parking lot, to ducks and anything else the park would afford.

I simply kept switching back & forth between the Siggy & the Canon combo using manual focusing to try and attain a clear cut winner on IQ basis alone. I could not get a clear cut winner. If anything I would suggest that the Canon combo (lens + TC) had a smidgen better micro-contrast than the Siggy, but that's splittin' hairs.

For handholding, the IS on the Canon was definitely better than the Siggy's OS. Caveat though: The Siggy is supposed to improve its OS when you calibrate it with the dock (which I hadn't yet purchased), so I took that with a grain of salt.

For AF without the TC, the Canon was a better AF than the Siggy, with it being a bit more snappy. The IQ improvement of the Canon without the TC wasn't dramatic (left-handed way of saying there wasn't a big penalty for using the TC), and of course for focal length comparison, the Siggy stayed pretty much on par in the 150-400 range.

Some images I'd give the nod to the Siggy, some would go to the Canon. I couldn't get anything past 50/50 ... at best, I was at 55/45 for Canon at that point, but I was still not "clear cut" on IQ merits.

Finally, I gave up trying to get a clear cut answer based on IQ.

Which brings me to my decision.

The 600mm Siggy has the longer physical lens, and the larger front element. Due to that it was more "tippy" than the Canon combo (lens + TC). It was heavier and I felt like I had to "work more" at handholding it (enter Kent's a wuss comment here ).

The other thing was the MFD. The MFD on the Siggy is nowhere near the MFD of the Canon 100-400 II. I like shooting near MFD stuff.

So, I considered the IQ, too close to call. Passed on the AF test @ f/8. Gave 1/2 a free pass to the Siggy IS (i.e. no dock to calibrate it).

But, after tossing all that out as a wash ... the "tippy balance" and the MFD, tipped the scales for me.

The other thing is that it also meant I had an effective focal length of 100-560 with the Canon vs. 150-600 with the Siggy. I figured the short end diff (2X vs. 3X) would mean more versatility than the diff on the long end (11X vs. 12X).

I have no doubt that on test charts, etc. the Canon may be a bit more clear cut above the Siggy IQ. But, in real world I couldn't produce it as a clear cut IQ superior lens to slay the Siggy when using the TC.

So, I passed along my Siggy after about three months with it alongside the Canon. So, for 2X the price of the Canon + TC combo, anyone who picks up the Siggy 150-600 for 1/2X the $$$ ... I get it. I just happened to get a nice CPW bargain price on the 100-400 II that let me "upgrade" to the Canon.

The 80D and AF @ f/8 came later (while I was still waiting for the 6D2).

So, that's my story ... and I'm stickin' to it.



Nov 15, 2017 at 09:46 PM
Matt-E
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


I've been using the 80D 100-400 mkii with the 1.4x version iii for quite some time and shoot mainly birds in flight, I would not recommend with using the 1.4x iii as the focus search increases fairly dramatically with the 1.4x iiI in use. The bare 100-400 mkii bare is tremendous for bif and I highly recommend it. I've shot small birds such as swallows in flight with good success with this set-up, I've found that shooting with the bare lens and cropping the bif images for me are sharper than using the 1.4x iii ... the main thing is to get the image and the focus speed slows down for me far too much with the converter.



Nov 16, 2017 at 08:50 AM
Matt-E
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Also would like to add that using the 1.4 mkiii for stationery birds in good light the 1.4x mkiii is tremendous


Nov 16, 2017 at 09:08 AM
Wildbruce
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Thank you everyone for the valuable tips and information! Very informative!


Nov 17, 2017 at 02:12 AM
Frock
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


I realize this thread is old but Wildbruce I'm wondering if you went with this setup? If you did, how do you like it?


Apr 19, 2018 at 12:00 PM
Wildbruce
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


Hey everyone,

A couple days ago, I finally decided to purchase the Canon 1.4x III extender to go along with my Canon 80D and 100-400L II lens. So far these are the things I noticed about this setup photographing static subjects:

1. Autofocus is fine in good lighting conditions. In dim lighting, it tends to slow down slightly.

2. There is a very slight degradation of image quality but still acceptable.

3. Images seem to have less contrast vs. just using the bare 100-400 lens.

I'm just wondering if others have experienced the same results with the addition of the 1.4x III extender.

I'm planing to go to my local wildlife reserve to see how the setup performs with BIF.




May 09, 2018 at 02:14 AM
lowside67
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


I have tested this combo and found the IQ ago be satisfactory, but could not live with the AF consequences for birds in flight. It’s not that it didn’t work, but the fact it was both slower and seemed to be less accurate did not give me the confidence to rely on this setup if I was going on a trip or something where I viewed the shots as critical. The bare lens and the 80D were a great pair and leaps and bounds over the same lens on my old 7D2.

I opted to go up the food chain for a big prime at that point.

Best of luck,
Mark



May 09, 2018 at 09:01 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


I have this combo and also use it on a 5D4. I generally concur with whats been said above. I generally use the bare lens on the 80D because adding the 1.4xIII adds uncertainty; perhaps this is my limitation. IQ is good when I am successful. I've found the 80D AI servo works well for coursing dogs but haven't done much BIF.

I use the 1.4x more when using the 5D4 because the extender effectively catches the FF up to the crop in reach. What I noticed most upgrading the original 100-400 to the Mk II was the better IQ with extender. And the extra 1/2 lb weight. I now use a Sigma 100-400 with the 80D for static subjects to save weight, but without an extender. I use the Canon when there is a chance for action or extender use.



May 09, 2018 at 09:30 AM
technic
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon 80D, Canon 100-400 II lens and 1.4x III extender


lowside67 wrote:
I have tested this combo and found the IQ ago be satisfactory, but could not live with the AF consequences for birds in flight. It’s not that it didn’t work, but the fact it was both slower and seemed to be less accurate did not give me the confidence to rely on this setup if I was going on a trip or something where I viewed the shots as critical. The bare lens and the 80D were a great pair and leaps and bounds over the same lens on my old 7D2.

I opted to go up the food chain for
...Show more

Agree, I also have the 80D, 100-400II and 1.4TCIII and find the combo almost useless for BIF because AF is way too slow and uncertain (big chance of not locking so you lose the shot). Only for very large birds - filling a significant portion of the frame and flying in a straight trajectory - AF can work, but you could use MF just as well in this case.

As to IQ, when I use the combo for moonshots it is obvious that resolution with the TC is still excellent but there is some degradation of (micro-)contrast. It's fine for static or very slow moving subjects and for me the main advantage of the TC over the naked lens is that it is easier to see where the system is focusing (when using AF).



May 09, 2018 at 12:49 PM
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