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Archive 2017 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.27 #1 · p.27 #1 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


snapsy wrote:
Just got mine. Ran up my favorite hill for my landscape centering tests. I have to step out to walk my dog so I don't have time to process them right now but I ran into an immediate problem I noticed while shooting - all my 105mm shots @ f/5.6 and f/8 were OOF. After some trial and error I realized it's the result of extreme focus shift at that focal length. If I manually focus @ f/4 and then switch to f/8 with Live View effect on (ie, exposure preview which stops the lens down), then I'm no longer
...Show more

I do NOT see this behavior at 105mm.

Here is screenshot from Lightroom at 1:1 showing the center area manual-focused at f/4 and then stopped down to f/8 without refocusing. I see zero focus shift at 105mm.








Jan 18, 2018 at 07:36 PM
snapsy
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p.27 #2 · p.27 #2 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
I do NOT see this behavior at 105mm.

Here is screenshot from Lightroom at 1:1 showing the center area manual-focused at f/4 and then stopped down to f/8 without refocusing. I see zero focus shift at 105mm.


Thanks Fred, that's strange then. Hey, I wonder if the strange stopped-down performance you're seeing at 35mm might be related. Perhaps copy variation causes focus shift variation. I didn't see any noticeable shift at 35mm on mine (though I'm not absolutely sure if I checked it while shooting). I'll be home soon and will see.



Jan 18, 2018 at 07:39 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.27 #3 · p.27 #3 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


snapsy wrote:
Thanks Fred, that's strange then. Hey, I wonder if the strange stopped-down performance you're seeing at 35mm might be related. Perhaps copy variation causes focus shift variation. I didn't see any noticeable shift at 35mm on mine (though I'm not absolutely sure if I checked it while shooting). I'll be home soon and will see.


What I see at 35mm is very minor though and it does not affect the center or mid areas. I only see it in very corners and it's very mild. Focus shift should be a lens characteristic and not part of any variation...I'm not used to seeing this...



Jan 18, 2018 at 07:57 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.27 #4 · p.27 #4 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


BTW: I tested this again today at closer distance (about 30m) and going from f/4 to f/8 @35mm yields almost identical corners on my copy.

See this 1:1 crop here showing the very extreme corner of the frame...This was focused on center.

I think this is outstanding performance for a zoom...or prime!




extreme corner of the frame






Full scene. Focused on the cypress tree in the middle.




Jan 18, 2018 at 08:03 PM
snapsy
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p.27 #5 · p.27 #5 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
What I see at 35mm is very minor though and it does not affect the center or mid areas. I only see it in very corners and it's very mild. Focus shift should be a lens characteristic and not part of any variation...I'm not used to seeing this...


I've never seen focus shift as part of copy variation either but the fact I'm seeing it on my copy and you're not seems to indicate that it's apparently possible. Also, the dpreview thread that darrellc referenced (here) indicates others are seeing it to, although they haven't seem to surmised that it's focus shift yet.

Here's a video I just took that demonstrates what I'm seeing - I manually focused on a LensAlign target @ 105mm f/4, then switched between f/4 and f/8 with AF disabled to show the focus shift in real-time. Watch it in HD/4K and full-screen:





Jan 18, 2018 at 08:15 PM
mjm6
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p.27 #6 · p.27 #6 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Fred,

Do these become 1:1 shots from the files when presented this way through the FM site? If I right-click and copy the file, is it effectively a 1:1 segment that I can bring into PS for comparison?

If so, I'll bring in a few of mine and see how mine compares.


---Michael



Jan 18, 2018 at 08:18 PM
mjm6
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p.27 #7 · p.27 #7 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Snapsy,

That sounds like something in the firmware isn't right. They are adjusting for FS when they shouldn't be possibly?


---Michael



Jan 18, 2018 at 08:24 PM
snapsy
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p.27 #8 · p.27 #8 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


mjm6 wrote:
Snapsy,

That sounds like something in the firmware isn't right. They are adjusting for FS when they shouldn't be possibly?

---Michael


AF is off so there's no focus adjustment the camera can be making as I switch between f/4 and f/8 in the video.



Jan 18, 2018 at 08:31 PM
snapsy
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p.27 #9 · p.27 #9 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


I did a more intensive focus-shift check and I start to see it all the way down to 24mm, although it seems progressively less pronounced as I move from 105mm to 24mm.


Jan 18, 2018 at 08:42 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.27 #10 · p.27 #10 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


snapsy wrote:
I've never seen focus shift as part of copy variation either but the fact I'm seeing it on my copy and you're not seems to indicate that it's apparently possible. Also, the dpreview thread that darrellc referenced (here) indicates others are seeing it to, although they haven't seem to surmised that it's focus shift yet.

Here's a video I just took that demonstrates what I'm seeing - I manually focused on a LensAlign target @ 105mm f/4, then switched between f/4 and f/8 with AF disabled to show the focus shift in real-time. Watch it in HD/4K and full-screen:




It definitely looks like focus shift. What I meant was that focus shift is a characteristic of the lens and should show up in all copies. What's happening with your copy and some others seem to be an anomaly.
Did you try in any other body?



Jan 18, 2018 at 08:58 PM
snapsy
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p.27 #11 · p.27 #11 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
It definitely looks like focus shift. What I meant was that focus shift is a characteristic of the lens and should show up in all copies. What's happening with your copy and some others seem to be an anomaly.
Did you try in any other body?


I agree, focus shift is a characteristic of the optical design and shouldn't vary across copies.

I just tried it on my A7s and see the same shift when moving between f/4 and f/8 on a manually-focused target. Interestingly the A7s focuses the lens stopped-down, which means the AF shots account for the shift and are in focus, unlike the A7rII's AF which focuses the lens wide open.



Jan 18, 2018 at 09:18 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.27 #12 · p.27 #12 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


snapsy wrote:
I agree, focus shift is a characteristic of the optical design and shouldn't vary across copies.

I just tried it on my A7s and see the same shift when moving between f/4 and f/8 on a manually-focused target. Interestingly the A7s focuses the lens stopped-down, which means the AF shots account for the shift and are in focus, unlike the A7rII's AF which focuses the lens wide open.


I'm sorry this is happening to your lens. I've never seen something similar before...Perhaps you should try another copy.
...I believe this lens is worth the trouble.



Jan 18, 2018 at 09:22 PM
Chuck Coyne
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p.27 #13 · p.27 #13 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
There is nothing wrong with overlapping...To me it means less lens changing.


Fred my thoughts exactly. Also, I realized that I'm shooting at 16mm and above way more than at 16mm and wider. While I love the 12-24 G I just don't seem to find compositions that need that wide a focal length very often. So I'll use the 16-35 GM as my primary wide angle lens along with the 24-105 G, I can cover 90% + of the compositions I enjoy shooting. When I want to bring the whole kit I'll cover the 12mm and up very nicely without that much more weight. The added benefit of using the 16-35 GM and 24-105 G; is I can use one of my smaller filter sets either the Lee 100mm set or the Breakthrough Photography screw-in filter set (3 ND's, and CPL). Each provides an easier filter solution than the huge NISI Filter set I have for the 12-24 G.

The other outcome from going through the exhaustive lens testing with all 3 of these lenses is that while I used the best of 3 manual focusing shots to compare the infinity tests I also shot one AF shot with each lens and at each aperture and focal length. When I compared the AF shots with the best of the Manual focus shots I couldn't find one AF shot that didn't nail the focus as good or better than my manual focused shots. So I'm going all AF with the incredible results that I've seen with the A7R3 and these new native lenses. I will miss the MF at times but even the newer AF lenses on the A7R3 are working much better in MF than earlier models.



Edited on Jan 18, 2018 at 09:30 PM · View previous versions



Jan 18, 2018 at 09:25 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.27 #14 · p.27 #14 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Chuck Coyne wrote:
Fred my thoughts exactly. Also, I realized that I'm shooting at 16mm and above way more than at 16mm and wider. While I love the 12-24 G I just don't seem to find compositions that need that wide a focal length very often. So I'll use the 16-35 GM as my primary wide angle lens along with the 24-105 G, I can cover 90% + of the compositions I enjoy shooting. The added benefit being that if I use these two lenses I can use one of my smaller filter sets either the Lee 100mm set or the Breakthrough
...Show more

If you can't find a good copy of the 16-35GM, another alternative is to go 2 primes and a zoom: 15mm, 21mm and 24-105...(Like that you will be ready for nice sunstars as well)

Heck, you could skip the 21 prime and go Laowa 15/2 or CV 15/4.5 III + 24-105 and be done!



Jan 18, 2018 at 09:30 PM
Chuck Coyne
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p.27 #15 · p.27 #15 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?




Fred Miranda wrote:
If you can't find a good copy of the 16-35GM, another alternative is to go 2 primes and a zoom: 15mm, 21mm and 24-105...(Like that you will be ready for nice sunstars as well)

Heck, you could skip the 21 prime and go Laowa 15/2 or CV 15/4.5 III + 24-105 and be done!


That is a great possibility. I have the Laowa 15 f/2 and the Loxia 21. They both easily take filters too. I think I will run some tests between the 16-35 GM and both of these primes and see just how they stack up at these focal lengths. Itís great to have such nice choices in the ultra wide angle focal length today! However,I do like the flexibility of the zoom. Dialing in the perfect focal length and less cropping makes for better large prints.



Jan 18, 2018 at 09:59 PM
snapsy
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p.27 #16 · p.27 #16 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm sorry this is happening to your lens. I've never seen something similar before...Perhaps you should try another copy.
...I believe this lens is worth the trouble.


Meh, seems par for the course for me. Btw, I see you and others posted corner crops - I'm usually more interested in edge performance, since most of my landscape need sharp edges but don't have anything in the corners, at least not the upper corners. How is your copy at the edges? Mine doesn't seem that impressive, esp considering the accounts here of the lens being sharp across the frame even @ f/4. Here are mine - focus is on far hills, which is what I'm using to evaluate the center vs edge performance.

Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 24mm f/4 (full-sized image)
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 35mm f/4 (full-sized image)
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 50mm f/4 (full-sized image)
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 70mm f/4 (full-sized image)
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 105mm f/4 (full-sized image)



Jan 18, 2018 at 09:59 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.27 #17 · p.27 #17 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


snapsy wrote:
Meh, seems par for the course for me. Btw, I see you and others posted corner crops - I'm usually more interested in edge performance, since most of my landscape need sharp edges but don't have anything in the corners, at least not the upper corners. How is your copy at the edges? Mine doesn't seem that impressive, esp considering the accounts here of the lens being sharp across the frame even @ f/4. Here are mine - focus is on far hills, which is what I'm using to evaluate the center vs edge performance.

Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 24mm
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 35mm f/4 (full-sized image)
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 50mm f/4 (full-sized image)
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 70mm f/4 (full-sized image)
Sony 24-105mm f/4 FE @ 105mm f/4 (full-sized image)
...Show more

Usually if a lens does well at the very extreme corner, it will do just as good or better at the edges of the frame (As in a regular landscape image). I need to check your full size images on my computer but at first look they look a bit soft even at center at some FLs. Is that where you focused?


Jan 18, 2018 at 10:23 PM
snapsy
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p.27 #18 · p.27 #18 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


Fred Miranda wrote:
Usually if a lens does well at the very extreme corner, it will do just as good or better at the edges of the frame (As in a regular landscape image). I need to check your full size images on my computer but at first look they look a bit soft even at center at some FLs. Is that where you focused?


Yes, focused on the distant houses under construction on the hill at center of the frame. Hand-held but fast shutter speeds (1/1250), IS off, and electronic shutter. All are with default LR capture sharpening.



Jan 18, 2018 at 10:28 PM
jamato8
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p.27 #19 · p.27 #19 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


I have a second 24-105 here. It is almost exactly the same in image appearance as mine.They both improve at around 5.6 and a little more at 8. Not sharp wide open at 24 edge to edge but tightens up at 5.6. Does very good.

Edited on Jan 18, 2018 at 11:31 PM · View previous versions



Jan 18, 2018 at 10:59 PM
MikeEvangelist
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p.27 #20 · p.27 #20 · New FE 24-105 f/4. How good?


I love this lens. Fantastic performance with no significant weaknesses. And it makes such a great combo with the 12-24mm. I don't think I've ever been happier with a 2-lens kit...ever. Really, if you're on the fence, just go buy one.

Full size image here - https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4628/24902787847_ca2fc100dd_o.jpg




  ILCE-7RM2    FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS lens    33mm    f/8.0    1/200s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  




Jan 18, 2018 at 11:14 PM
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