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Archive 2017 · Severe Underexposure - D5

  
 
la puffin
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Severe Underexposure - D5


I shot about 10 frames out of ~1500 that were severely underexposed. It seems like they happened in the first hour out of 3.5. They happened with a bare 400 and with a 1.4 TC on it as well. They looked completely black when chipping but upon opening in PhotoMechanic and PS, they're just really dark.

Any idea what is happening? Could it have been a bit of gunk on one of the contacts or something else? I was doing a lot of serious running and mounted/unmounted the lens quickly. I can try testing by justing more in a day or two, but my work schedule is pretty heavy. I'd hate to send it in and AAF tune a loaner if it might be something not serious.

The sample below was boosted 4 full stops in ACR.

Thanks for any ideas.








Oct 23, 2017 at 10:47 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Severe Underexposure - D5


What variable in the EXIF changed in those 10 shots to make them so dark? Or did the EXIF not change? What mode were you shooting in (M, A, S), Auto-ISO?. Were you shooting wide open? What metering mode?


Oct 23, 2017 at 10:50 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Severe Underexposure - D5


Can't believe that some people ask for ideas what went wrong, yet strip the EXIF.


Oct 23, 2017 at 11:00 AM
la puffin
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Severe Underexposure - D5


arbitrage wrote:
What variable in the EXIF changed in those 10 shots to make them so dark? Or did the EXIF not change? What mode were you shooting in (M, A, S), Auto-ISO?. Were you shooting wide open? What metering mode?


Most of the info came through normally except the lens MM and Aperture are blank. I shoot in Manual with Auto ISO set on, but the ISO limit was 12,800 and it shouldn't have gotten anywhere near that ceiling.

I was shooting wide open bare lens and TC. Metering mode was Matrix.

---------------------------------------------

Imagemaster wrote:
Can't believe that some people ask for ideas what went wrong, yet strip the EXIF.


This was a work shoot. I can't do that.



Oct 23, 2017 at 11:13 AM
RZ350
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Severe Underexposure - D5


Wasn't this the reason Nikon was transitioning to E type lenses because of the aperture blades failing to keep up and occasionally giving dark frames? I don't know if your lens is an e type or not so I might be right out to lunch. Also you were shooting wide open so aperture should not be an issue.


Oct 23, 2017 at 11:43 AM
90 5.0
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Severe Underexposure - D5


Where was the focus tracking and metering on that shot?

Maybe it metered a lot of weight on the bright spots on top of the helmet? That would explain the dark photo.

Is d-lighting turned on?




Oct 23, 2017 at 11:46 AM
jpelt78
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Severe Underexposure - D5


You say on the black shots the EXIF does not show the lens focal length or aperture. It looks like the camera did not see the lens. If so, since it did not see the lens would the aperture lever on the camera fully close the aperture when the shot was taken? I’m not where I can test that right now but I think without a lens the aperture stopdown lever moves in its full range.

Now why did the camera not see the lens? Were these black shots grouped together or say the only shots taken during a lens change (adding or removing the TC). Either the lens was not fully locked in or you have an intermittent communications issue of some sort. Maybe just cleaning the contacts would help.



Oct 23, 2017 at 11:53 AM
reggieb
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Severe Underexposure - D5


la puffin wrote:
Most of the info came through normally except the lens MM and Aperture are blank. I shoot in Manual with Auto ISO set on, but the ISO limit was 12,800 and it shouldn't have gotten anywhere near that ceiling.

I was shooting wide open bare lens and TC. Metering mode was Matrix.

---------------------------------------------

This was a work shoot. I can't do that.


---------------------------------------------

jpelt78 wrote:
You say on the black shots the EXIF does not show the lens focal length or aperture. It looks like the camera did not see the lens. If so, since it did not see the lens would the aperture lever on the camera fully close the aperture when the shot was taken? I’m not where I can test that right now but I think without a lens the aperture stopdown lever moves in its full range.

Now why did the camera not see the lens? Were these black shots grouped together or say the only shots taken during a lens
...Show more

Yup, wasn't communicating with the lens. My 14-24 has started to do this on the regular, and every time I have to remove it and place it back on the camera to get it to work again. It will display 2* in the viewfinder as the f/stop whenever it does it, as well, as the camera thinks that there is a manual lens mounted.



Oct 23, 2017 at 12:20 PM
la puffin
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Severe Underexposure - D5


RZ350 wrote:
Wasn't this the reason Nikon was transitioning to E type lenses because of the aperture blades failing to keep up and occasionally giving dark frames? I don't know if your lens is an e type or not so I might be right out to lunch. Also you were shooting wide open so aperture should not be an issue.


Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it.

The lens is a 400/2.8G. It was at Nikon in June or July and had a few things done (one was the lens mount was replaced). I've shot over 100,000 frames with it in the last year and this was the first time it has happened.

---------------------------------------------

90 5.0 wrote:
Where was the focus tracking and metering on that shot?

Maybe it metered a lot of weight on the bright spots on top of the helmet? That would explain the dark photo.

Is d-lighting turned on?



I was on D9 and used Matrix metering. I wonder about that bright spot. Each one has one or two but they're tiny. But perhaps they were so bright as to knock the metering completely off? That hasn't happened before, but maybe the silver helmets metallic paint made the issue worse? It only happened on a handful of shots.

I noticed later in the afternoon, that some of the stadium lights were on, probably because of the shade issue as the sun changes. I don't know if they were on in the beginning, but I found it odd in such bight daylight.

Still, this was between 1:00 and 2:00 on a very bright sunny NorCal afternoon. However, I've shot under some pretty intense stadium lighting and that hasn't been an issue.

D-Lighting (Active D?) was off.

---------------------------------------------

jpelt78 wrote:
You say on the black shots the EXIF does not show the lens focal length or aperture. It looks like the camera did not see the lens. If so, since it did not see the lens would the aperture lever on the camera fully close the aperture when the shot was taken? I’m not where I can test that right now but I think without a lens the aperture stopdown lever moves in its full range.

Now why did the camera not see the lens? Were these black shots grouped together or say the only shots taken during a lens
...Show more

I don't know anything about an aperture lever on a lens. I'll have to learn more about this and see if I can figure out what you're saying.

The shots were loosely clumped but only two were back to back. I was shooting at 12 fps. It could be that I didn't have the lens on and running up and down sidelines. I used to be able to swap lenses on my Canons in complete darkness very quickly, but I have trouble mounting the 400 unless I hold both the lens and body. I'll make it a practice to always do so in the future. I'm strong for my age and size

I cleaned the contacts on all of my gear about a month ago, but I'll do it again. Since football season has started, I'm mounting and unmounting a TC a lot, and usually something is on the ground, as I'm trying to do it all in-between plays.

---------------------------------------------

jpelt78 wrote:
Yup, wasn't communicating with the lens. My 14-24 has started to do this on the regular, and every time I have to remove it and place it back on the camera to get it to work again. It will display 2* in the viewfinder as the f/stop whenever it does it, as well, as the camera thinks that there is a manual lens mounted.


I hope cleaning the contacts will fix it. I just have to shoot a lot of frames to test it. Then switch bodies to see if it's the lens or body.

A side note, CPS was in the media room, and often are. I was envious of the Canon guys getting their gear cleaned and checked. I'd estimate that 40% of the photographers were shooting Nikon. It'd be nice to see NPS in the field. However, I suspect it's a contractual issue.



Oct 23, 2017 at 01:13 PM
jpelt78
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Severe Underexposure - D5


Sorry, maybe too technical. Basically since you said the EXIF was blank for focal length and aperture on these shots the camera did not know what lens what mounted. It would assume a manual focus lens mounted when it has no signal and the camera would stop your lens down to f22 or whatever the smallest aperture is. Thus nearly black images.

la puffin wrote:

I don't know anything about an aperture lever on a lens. I'll have to learn more about this and see if I can figure out what you're saying.

The shots were loosely clumped but only two were back to back. I was shooting at 12 fps. It could be that I didn't have the lens on and running up and down sidelines. I used to be able to swap lenses on my Canons in complete darkness very quickly, but I have trouble mounting the 400 unless I hold both the lens and body. I'll make it a practice to
...Show more



Oct 23, 2017 at 01:52 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Severe Underexposure - D5


la puffin wrote:
This was a work shoot. I can't do that.


Can't do what? Show the EXIF, or strip it?



Oct 23, 2017 at 02:02 PM
jpelt78
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Severe Underexposure - D5


I just tested the behavior on one of my G lenses. I simulated loss of contact by turning the lens towards the removal direction just barely enough for it to lose the electrical contact with the camera. It made a dark image and closed the aperture down to the smallest opening. It also placed the last manual lens data I had used in the EXIF. If you never have setup MF lenses on your camera it would instead be blank.


Oct 23, 2017 at 02:42 PM
la puffin
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Severe Underexposure - D5


jpelt78 wrote:
Sorry, maybe too technical. Basically since you said the EXIF was blank for focal length and aperture on these shots the camera did not know what lens what mounted. It would assume a manual focus lens mounted when it has no signal and the camera would stop your lens down to f22 or whatever the smallest aperture is. Thus nearly black images.


I did a little reading on aperture levers. They seem to be moving freely on the lenses and I can see the aperture close when I move it, so they don't appear to be stuck. I'm still trying to find the lever on my 24-70E and 70-200E - that's a joke ... hahaha.

I understand what you're saying about the loss of signal. The best case scenario would be dirt or something on the contacts of either the camera or lens. I just cleaned them on all of my bodies and lenses. I did my TCs too which I may have not remembered to do in the past. The cloth was surprisingly dirty after only about a month since the previous cleaning.

I shot a little over 200 frames and no image problems, but the incident occurred in less than 1% of my shots yesterday so I may not have taken enough frames for it to reoccur yet. I'll keep an eye on it.

I did notice something strange in the number of shots taken. It seemed to start a new series (i.e. 24/24 then 180/180). There were some duplicate file numbers from last night too, which the D5 resolves by adding an "A". I did change a lens setting after some shots, but that shouldn't have any effect. I reset the file sequence, and will keep an eye on it. I'm starting to feel it might be a body issue. Unfortunately it's 13 months old, but I have NPS.

Now my iPhone just started making a strange ring. I may be in an electronic twilight zone.



Oct 23, 2017 at 02:50 PM
la puffin
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Severe Underexposure - D5


jpelt78 wrote:
I just tested the behavior on one of my G lenses. I simulated loss of contact by turning the lens towards the removal direction just barely enough for it to lose the electrical contact with the camera. It made a dark image and closed the aperture down to the smallest opening. It also placed the last manual lens data I had used in the EXIF. If you never have setup MF lenses on your camera it would instead be blank.


I wonder if it could be a lens mount issue then. I've never setup a MF lens on this body, so that would lead it to being blank, as you say.

Thanks for taking the time to do that. I really appreciate the help.




Oct 23, 2017 at 02:53 PM
90 5.0
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Severe Underexposure - D5


la puffin wrote:
I wonder if it could be a lens mount issue then. I've never setup a MF lens on this body, so that would lead it to being blank, as you say.

Thanks for taking the time to do that. I really appreciate the help.



Put a random manual ais data in one of the saves like a 135 2.8 and see if the next time it happens that data shows, would confirm loss of communication and show up in the exif as 135 2.8



Oct 23, 2017 at 04:51 PM
charles.K
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Severe Underexposure - D5


la puffin wrote:
Most of the info came through normally except the lens MM and Aperture are blank. I shoot in Manual with Auto ISO set on, but the ISO limit was 12,800 and it shouldn't have gotten anywhere near that ceiling.

I was shooting wide open bare lens and TC. Metering mode was Matrix.



Yes definitely a communication problem. As already mentioned could be the refurbished lens mount, connecting intermittently. Can you swap out the lens with NPS and see if the problem disappears? It would seem the lens/mount would be the issue as you have had work done on it.



Oct 23, 2017 at 05:15 PM
la puffin
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Severe Underexposure - D5


Here's a brief follow up. Tonight I shot 2807 frames of women's soccer. Not a single dark frame. So it seems that dirt was the cause of the communication problem. Everything looked pretty clean, but the microfiber cloth revealed a good amount of black dirt.

Lesson learned, and I'm happy to not have sent anything in, only to get an expensive cleaning bill. Thanks for all of the input and help.




Oct 25, 2017 at 12:54 AM
charles.K
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Severe Underexposure - D5


la puffin wrote:
Here's a brief follow up. Tonight I shot 2807 frames of women's soccer. Not a single dark frame. So it seems that dirt was the cause of the communication problem. Everything looked pretty clean, but the microfiber cloth revealed a good amount of black dirt.

Lesson learned, and I'm happy to not have sent anything in, only to get an expensive cleaning bill. Thanks for all of the input and help.



I have had this issue a number of times where there is a subtle corrosion layer on the contacts particularly in Asia where the humidity is high. The corrosion layer needs to be polished/cleaned and I have just used normal toothpaste carefully and it worked great



Oct 25, 2017 at 01:02 AM
Derek
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Severe Underexposure - D5


If the Aperture reports f0 in the exif, its the contacts on the lens/and/or/body, eg: communication error

Was a very common problem on the original D3, and occasional problem on the D4, D4S, D5

Try cleaning the contacts with 100% Alchohol, but sometimes they need to adjust the pressure on the contacts in service, which I thing they do on the body contacts, problem usually more prominent with bigger lenses



Oct 25, 2017 at 03:27 PM





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