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Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2

  
 
sebboh
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


airfrogusmc wrote:
So disappointed with the upcoming 75 1.25, 35 .95 and the new M 10? The M 10 is the finest 135 (FF) or crop format digital I have shot with and I've shot with quite few.

I think Leica is about more than what many pixel peepers want to see . That is for sure. I do believe that their optics are more about the way lenses render than just clinical sharpness though they do have some very sharp options but those options usually have very unique renderings also.


um, do you have links to actual details about a 75/1.25 and 35/.95? i'd love to know more.




Oct 23, 2017 at 03:41 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


Go to Leica Rumors.

https://leicarumors.com/2017/04/22/leica-noctilux-m-75mm-f1-25-asph-lens-confirmed-coming-later-this-year.aspx/

It says the 35 .95 is just a rumor but the 75 1.25 is supposedly in the works.



Oct 23, 2017 at 03:47 PM
sebboh
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


airfrogusmc wrote:
Go to Leica Rumors.

https://leicarumors.com/2017/04/22/leica-noctilux-m-75mm-f1-25-asph-lens-confirmed-coming-later-this-year.aspx/

It says the 35 .95 is just a rumor but the 75 1.25 is supposedly in the works.


so no actual details about size or images of/with the lens(es) yet then.




Oct 23, 2017 at 04:35 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


None on Leica Rumors.


Oct 23, 2017 at 05:09 PM
danski0224
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


I'm buying two of them.

One to use and one to sell after this product run sells out.




Oct 23, 2017 at 05:51 PM
ZoneV
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


phuang3 wrote:
..
The thing is you don't need to spend $6.5k to get soft-fcous effect. A soft-focus filter or even PS will do better. What are people paying 6.5k for? Exotic glass element or superior optical design? As a long time Leica user, I am kind of disappointed on current Leica management



You may get the soft focus effect of the focussed area more or less with Photoshop. But you need to spend a lot of time to get the bokeh effects! Furthermore without the lens it could be hard to imaging what to do in Photoshop to create the images.

With Photoshop and some time, knowledge and imagination you can create every image - without the need for a lens and camera. You can choose from 16millions of color (or even more) for every single pixel of your image.
I have to admit that I do not have that much imagination (and time and knowhow) and rather use special lenses to create my artwork.

I would not buy the Thambar, due to its high price, but I do understand why people will buy it, And perhaps I try to make a lens that gets me close to the Thambar in terms of bokeh.



Oct 24, 2017 at 01:22 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


I'm glad that a $6500 Lensbaby finally crosses the line for at least some of you.


Oct 30, 2017 at 07:25 AM
AmbientMike
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2




Fred Miranda wrote:
Someone is very upset today:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leitz-Leica-Thambar-L39-Screw-Mount-90-2-2-90mm-f-2-2-E48-Rare-Soft-Focus-/322799729666


Do you mean due to the lower price of the new one, or for a different reason? I like the old stuff, and I think I might prefer the 30's-40's model. It will be interesting to see how the price of the old one is affected. It might go up, due to more publicity.



Oct 30, 2017 at 01:07 PM
Arka
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


airfrogusmc wrote:
I think Leica is about more than what many pixel peepers want to see . That is for sure. I do believe that their optics are more about the way lenses render than just clinical sharpness though they do have some very sharp options but those options usually have very unique renderings also.


Totally agree with this point. Clinical sharpness is so overrated - I've been experiencing that shooting native Sony system lenses and Leica lenses on my Sony camera. The Sony lenses are ridiculously sharp, but I much prefer the look of the Leica lenses - sharp to be sure but also slightly less contrast in the in-focus areas, beautiful transitions to bogey, and lively bokeh as well.

I'd love to see a 75 f/1.2, but I fear it will be too expensive for me... Leica is in the habit of charging obscene amounts of money for their latest and greatest optics, and $10,000 or more for a 75 f/1.2 isn't in my future. That said, $6500 for this Thambar seems like a total joke to me. More power to Leica if they can sell them I guess, but it's not a direction I, as a potential buyer of new Leica products, am excited to see at all (kind of like Leica's silly special editions that always manage to sell out but leave the rest of us practical shooters scratching our heads).



Oct 30, 2017 at 01:15 PM
rico
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


I'll admit to drooling over special M releases like this one.



These kind of products allow Leica to make an easy buck from well-heeled admirers, and that's good for the entire RF ecosystem. Based on its positioning in the stratosphere, the Thambar falls in this category, while the Summaron 28/5.6 reissue is priced in line with a modern, low-volume lens from Leica that photogs might actually use.

Ref: M6 Anton Bruckner edition from the great Photography in Malaysia site



Oct 30, 2017 at 05:50 PM
 


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airfrogusmc
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


I'm actually interested in the 28 Summaron 5.6. Looks like a very interesting lens.


Oct 30, 2017 at 06:55 PM
rico
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


airfrogusmc wrote:
I'm actually interested in the 28 Summaron 5.6. Looks like a very interesting lens.

The original is relatively new (released in the 50s), and was screwmount only: a perfect match for your favorite Barnack. I hunted vigorously for a copy, but they are rarely found and rarely clean. I really wish the reissue was LTM because I already have the Elmarit-M 28 ASPH. I do applaud Leica for keeping the original formula—and the silver finish! The reissued (period correct) shade is a brilliant touch. Unlike the Thambar, the Summaron is not a cash grab.



Oct 30, 2017 at 07:15 PM
Arka
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


rico wrote:
I'll admit to drooling over special M releases like this one.

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/Leica/Leica-M6/M6-Anton-Bruckner1996/images/M6-LS-AntonBruckner3.jpg

These kind of products allow Leica to make an easy buck from well-heeled admirers, and that's good for the entire RF ecosystem. Based on its positioning in the stratosphere, the Thambar falls in this category, while the Summaron 28/5.6 reissue is priced in line with a modern, low-volume lens from Leica that photogs might actually use.

Ref: M6 Anton Bruckner edition from the great Photography in Malaysia site


It's easy money for sure, and as I say, more power to Leica for making it. It probably doesn't cost much to make these things and the extra profits can be shoveled into R&D for other technologies. And you're right.. some of the designs are beautiful. For example, I loved Leica's special edition Audi M9 - that was just gorgeous and I'll fully admit to drooling at that. I also really liked the Hermes edition. But some of the concepts just strike me as unbelievably gauche. One face palm-inducing idea was the Lenny Kravitz "Correspondent" edition M-P -

"[T]he glossy black enamel of the camera and the two lenses have been intentionally aged in homage to a well-used camera system, showing a distinctive patina that would usually point to many years of constant use. To achieve this look, every camera and lens of the edition was ‘aged’ entirely by hand to create absolutely unique individual products."

Come ... on. But Leica sold all of them, so they're laughing their way to the bank I suppose. Again, more power to them, but it sure seems silly to me.



Oct 31, 2017 at 03:25 AM
pmeheut
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


For plenty of people, buying a digital Leica M is silly: no AF, no modern technology, imprecise framing and a very high price.
Even worse, some people are ready to pay the same amount of money to buy a B&W only Leica M when you can get excellent results already by converting the images from a color camera.
And some people even bought a Raw only, no screen at all Leica M digital camera.

And let's not get started on the lenses: I paid around 3500€ for a 50mm/1.4? Am I silly?

I will not buy the Thambar but I do not feel I'm in a position to judge those who will. And I wonder if others are.



Oct 31, 2017 at 05:40 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


Arka wrote:
It's easy money for sure, and as I say, more power to Leica for making it. It probably doesn't cost much to make these things and the extra profits can be shoveled into R&D for other technologies. And you're right.. some of the designs are beautiful. For example, I loved Leica's special edition Audi M9 - that was just gorgeous and I'll fully admit to drooling at that. I also really liked the Hermes edition. But some of the concepts just strike me as unbelievably gauche. One face palm-inducing idea was the Lenny Kravitz "Correspondent" edition M-P -

"[T]he glossy
...Show more

If this allows Leica to still keep making WONDERFUL film cameras and cameras like the MM and now the new M 10 then ROCK ON with the collector editions Leica.



Oct 31, 2017 at 08:23 AM
Arka
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


pmeheut wrote:
For plenty of people, buying a digital Leica M is silly: no AF, no modern technology, imprecise framing and a very high price.
Even worse, some people are ready to pay the same amount of money to buy a B&W only Leica M when you can get excellent results already by converting the images from a color camera.
And some people even bought a Raw only, no screen at all Leica M digital camera.

And let's not get started on the lenses: I paid around 3500€ for a 50mm/1.4? Am I silly?

I will not buy the Thambar but I do not feel
...Show more

It's certainly true that there are varying degrees of "silliness" associated with photography tools, and of course concerns that seem silly to one person are critically important to others. But I would say that the interest in cameras like the MM, M60, or Leica's expensive optics (I own three very pricey Leica lenses myself) is distinct from the type of interest that motivates people to buy some of those special editions - I think most purchasers of production M equipment (and even stuff like the Thambar) are motivated principally by the intent to actually take pictures and create images. Whether they actually do that is another story entirely, but I seriously doubt that most special edition purchasers have the same motivation. I'll bet most of them are speculators who won't even open the box, let alone use the equipment. And while everyone is entitled to do what they want with the stuff they can afford to buy, and Leica is more than entitled to cash in on its brand position in this way, the motivations creating this market (on the buyer and seller side) strike me as being a little odd since we are, at bottom, dealing with imaging equipment. I speak here not of particular lenses or cameras with a set of distinct capabilities (or lack thereof) - I speak entirely to the rebadged and cosmetically customized cameras that perform identically to their production-line cousins, but cost 1.5 to 4 times as much for being "limited edition."

I find the Lenny Kravitz correspondent edition to be particularly gauche in this respect, because it is basically a digital M that's been pre-brassed. While the lens that comes with it may have some unique features, I seriously doubt that anyone would be able to distinguish the output of a Kravitz M240 from a standard M240. And of course, no one would ever likely get the chance to compare output since most people snapping up the Lenny Kravitz "pre-torn jeans" edition of the Leica M would probably never take it out of the box, let alone release the shutter.

I'm not saying that such behavior should be made illegal. But I'm going to judge it as a bit weird (unless someone can show me evidence that these Leica special editions are particularly good investments). Of course, I'm no stranger to being weird myself - for example, I'm obsessed with hand-painted fountain pens in a world where a BIC pen would leak less and provide more reliable output.



Nov 02, 2017 at 02:24 PM
sebboh
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


Arka wrote:
I'm not saying that such behavior should be made illegal. But I'm going to judge it as a bit weird (unless someone can show me evidence that these Leica special editions are particularly good investments).
.

i'm pretty sure their value easily outperforms a typical index fund (i'd have to look up original prices to be sure though), so the collectors are more firmly rational than you are with your pens.

still seems like a waste, but it makes sense for them and leica.




Nov 02, 2017 at 02:41 PM
Arka
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


sebboh wrote:
.

i'm pretty sure their value easily outperforms a typical index fund (i'd have to look up original prices to be sure though), so the collectors are more firmly rational than you are with your pens.

still seems like a waste, but it makes sense for them and leica.



Depends on the pen. I have a few that have increased in value two- to four-fold since I bought them a few years ago (and that's with a 20% hit for actually putting ink them rather than leaving them wrapped in their boxes). But that's pretty uncommon, and I agree with you that most pens (and watches) generally depreciate and speculation on them doesn't make much sense. Good thing I enjoy drawing with them.

I'd be curious to see how the special editions fare in terms of appreciation over time though, particularly the digital ones.



Nov 02, 2017 at 02:54 PM
mdemeyer
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


I also have a passion for fountain pens, but I use them and enjoy them, as I do my cameras. I don’t know if that makes me a collector of pens or not... I have about 20 and they get used, broken, repaired, and used some more. So I feel like a user, not a collector. And a happy one. A Cartier with a left-oblique nib filled with Waterman Florida Blue in the rotation at the moment. :-)




Nov 03, 2017 at 06:49 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Official: Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2


airfrogusmc wrote:
If this allows Leica to still keep making WONDERFUL film cameras and cameras like the MM and now the new M 10 then ROCK ON with the collector editions Leica.


I can't believe this. The volumes on these special editions are so tiny that even if they were 100% profit I'm doubtful it'd make a meaningful dent in R&D spending. It's a prestige / brand image move.

The question for me is why that works. People who saw the Hasselblad Stellar and Lunar for what they were but own a Lenny Kravitz pre-distressed M or will buy this Thambar absolutely flummox me. I just don't see the difference.




Nov 03, 2017 at 08:49 AM
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