Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       end
  

New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses
  
 
notherenow
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


The One Art lens in FE I want is the 24-35 f2 for native AF with my A7s (and my replacement camera whatever/whenever that will be).




Oct 05, 2017 at 07:43 AM
RCicala
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


We so often tend to translate "what I want is" to "they could if they wanted to". All lens design is a trade off. Sigma has recently decided that using larger elements of less exotic glass was a good trade off. It allows them to get 1) lower price, 2) superb optical performance, and

3) (and most importantly) very good consistency with little variation. I emphasize this because people STILL insist on believing quality assurance is a guy testing every lens at the end of the assembly run and throwing out the bad ones. It's not. In most cases it's things like designing larger elements that allow more tolerance so there aren't bad ones at the end of the assembly line.

We've all suffered through "designed to the cutting edge of tolerance so that we get absolutely the best performance in theory, except we can't manufacture it that tightly".

Which is the right way to do it isn't a yes-no. The laws of optical physics say you can choose roughly 3 out of 4: low price, small size, excellent optics, low copy-to-copy variation. And a business person will decide where the right market niche is before the lens designers start.

I don't know yet what Sigma will chose for FE mount designs. I may next week after they come visit, but then I'll be under nondisclosure and can't say.

Personally, having spent the morning deciding GM stands for "Get More copies and find a good one" I'll pay the size trade off, but I realize for others size is the priority.


Edited on Oct 05, 2017 at 01:06 PM · View previous versions



Oct 05, 2017 at 12:41 PM
Chris_88
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


RCicala wrote:
We so often tend to translate "what I want is" to "they could if they wanted to". All lens design is a trade off. Sigma has recently decided that using larger elements of less exotic glass was a good trade off. It allows them to get 1) lower price, 2) superb optical performance, and

3) (and most importantly) very good consistency with little variation. I emphasize this because people STILL insist on believing quality assurance is a guy testing every lens at the end of the assembly run and throwing out the bad ones. It's not. In most cases it's
...Show more

Thanks for always being a voice of reason, Roger.

I find it ironic that at a time when Sony keeps getting criticized for its "ridiculously" sized f2.8 zooms and f1.4 primes, even the poster child of the "mirrorless = small lens" movement, Leica is making AF lenses for the SL (24-90, 50 1.4) that don't strike me as particularly compact .



Oct 05, 2017 at 01:00 PM
Messier77
Offline

Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


RCicala wrote:
We so often tend to translate "what I want is" to "they could if they wanted to". All lens design is a trade off. Sigma has recently decided that using larger elements of less exotic glass was a good trade off. It allows them to get 1) lower price, 2) superb optical performance, and

3) (and most importantly) very good consistency with little variation. I emphasize this because people STILL insist on believing quality assurance is a guy testing every lens at the end of the assembly run and throwing out the bad ones. It's not. In most cases it's
...Show more

Thanks for the excellent insight, Roger. I'd take the current Sigma design philosophy (large, low variation, and lower price) every single day of the week. Just because Sony can have a compact system, doesn't mean they should or have to pursue that goal.



Oct 05, 2017 at 01:00 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


RCicala wrote:
We so often tend to translate "what I want is" to "they could if they wanted to". All lens design is a trade off. Sigma has recently decided that using larger elements of less exotic glass was a good trade off. It allows them to get 1) lower price, 2) superb optical performance, and

3) (and most importantly) very good consistency with little variation. I emphasize this because people STILL insist on believing quality assurance is a guy testing every lens at the end of the assembly run and throwing out the bad ones. It's not. In most cases it's
...Show more

As usual Roger you make excellent points. I think there is one other characteristic to consider and that is maximum aperture. If you make the lenses with a slower maximum aperture I think it is possible to have lower price, small size, excellent optics, and low copy-to-copy variation. This is not far from what Zeiss has done with the Batis series and they aren't the smallest size or the cheapest, but they are fairly small with fairly low price, excellent optics, and fairly low copy-to-copy variation. I think this is a sweet spot for the FE mount and I kind of hope (but do not expect) that Sigma would do a similar thing with at least the 35mm focal length which could really use such a lens.



Oct 05, 2017 at 01:17 PM
RCicala
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Steve, I totally agree with that and that should have been the 5th variable.

But I know lens designers and they always love doing stuff no one has done before. Sigma, since Kazuto-san took over, has been boldly going where no aperture has gone before While I'm still allowed to guess, I'll guess we're going to see 'at least as wide as anyone' apertures from the new FE Sigmas.



Oct 05, 2017 at 01:22 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Yes, give me 95% of the image quality at 1/2 the price and it will be a winner.


Oct 05, 2017 at 01:28 PM
gocolts
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


The important part to me is we have choices. Want the A7 to be a small mirrorless system? You can do that- plenty of lens choices. Want f/2.8 zooms like Canon/Nikon offers? You can do that too. I have a mix of both, as sometimes size is important (hiking with my A7R2, Batis 18, & FE 35 f/2.8 works great for me) and other times flexibility is more necessary than small size. Sure- there are tradeoffs, but that's true of any system. I feel like Sony offerings enable a lot of size/performance options these days.


Oct 05, 2017 at 02:16 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


I have no hope at all that any Sigma lens will be small or lightweight. None. Ziltch, nada. Take Rogers comments to heart about size and at the end of the production run. Small is not big production


Oct 05, 2017 at 02:41 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


RCicala wrote:
We so often tend to translate "what I want is" to "they could if they wanted to". All lens design is a trade off. Sigma has recently decided that using larger elements of less exotic glass was a good trade off. It allows them to get 1) lower price, 2) superb optical performance, and

3) (and most importantly) very good consistency with little variation. I emphasize this because people STILL insist on believing quality assurance is a guy testing every lens at the end of the assembly run and throwing out the bad ones. It's not. In most cases it's
...Show more

I don't know much about lens design but what you described translates perfectly to what we see in reality.



Oct 05, 2017 at 03:55 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Yea there huge because itís easier to make and quality control is easier. Plus if there fast than you have size limits


Oct 05, 2017 at 04:06 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


RCicala wrote:
Steve, I totally agree with that and that should have been the 5th variable.

But I know lens designers and they always love doing stuff no one has done before. Sigma, since Kazuto-san took over, has been boldly going where no aperture has gone before While I'm still allowed to guess, I'll guess we're going to see 'at least as wide as anyone' apertures from the new FE Sigmas.


I think that is likely what they will do, but they might do something no one else has done and make some lenses even slower than the batis lenses, keeping them small, excellent, pretty cheap, and pretty low in variability. Their APS-C lenses for E mount, Fuji X mount and m4/3rds almost fit this pattern. I could imagine a 24mm f/2.8; a 28mm f/2.8, a 45mm f/2.8, and perhaps a 70mm f/2.8. With that group they could throw in 35mm f/2 lenses (which as we know no one else has done) and they might well have a hit. I don't think they will do this, but I think it would be good for the system to have these additional lenses with those capabilities and I think Sigma could sell a lot of those lenses.



Oct 06, 2017 at 02:06 AM
genji
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think that is likely what they will do, but they might do something no one else has done and make some lenses even slower than the batis lenses, keeping them small, excellent, pretty cheap, and pretty low in variability. Their APS-C lenses for E mount, Fuji X mount and m4/3rds almost fit this pattern. I could imagine a 24mm f/2.8; a 28mm f/2.8, a 45mm f/2.8, and perhaps a 70mm f/2.8. With that group they could throw in 35mm f/2 lenses (which as we know no one else has done) and they might well have a hit. I
...Show more

Couldn't agree more but... the 99% probability that I'd buy both a Sigma 28/2.8 and a 45/2.8 is offset by the 1% probability that Sigma would actually make them.



Oct 06, 2017 at 02:17 AM
joelRichards
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


bjornthun wrote:
They will have to be able to license the specifications for that mount from Nikon, and we don't know if Nikon will let them do that. In other words we don't know, if Nikon will keep their mount proprietary or not. Zeiss doesn't do reverse engineering.


Batis would be a big maybe, but Loxia would be almost a given (although without electronics like they have on the E-mount). Even if Canon and Nikon keep their existing physical mounts, I could see Zeiss and others using similar optics with deeply recessed rear elements. Not as pretty but there's historical precedence.



Oct 06, 2017 at 05:09 PM
Arka
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


genji wrote:
Couldn't agree more but... the 99% probability that I'd buy both a Sigma 28/2.8 and a 45/2.8 is offset by the 1% probability that Sigma would actually make them.


You're probably right. Sigma's game these days seems to be to build fastest- and sharpest-in-class prime lenses and zooms for reasonable (though increasingly expensive) costs, so I expect f/2.8 primes are not going to happen ever.



Oct 06, 2017 at 10:40 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · New Sigma Art FE Rumour - Delay and Five Lenses


Arka wrote:
You're probably right. Sigma's game these days seems to be to build fastest- and sharpest-in-class prime lenses and zooms for reasonable (though increasingly expensive) costs, so I expect f/2.8 primes are not going to happen ever.


That is OK with me as long as they aren't any bigger than the GM lenses and 1/2 their price tags.



Oct 07, 2017 at 11:39 AM
1       2      
3
       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password