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Archive 2017 · Up against the Wall! - take 2

  
 
OntheRez
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


I'm very close to losing the struggle in my fight to stay with CS6. Lack of new camera profiles. (Don't like .png, and it is another step in the ingest process. Adds process time.) New speed vs OK. Lr getting updated while the stand alone is not. Probably the biggest is the OS moving away from compatibility with Adobe as it does nothing for CS6. Perhaps I'm finally, just taken in by marketing crap.

So four questions. First, can one buy a year's subscription rather than monthly? In light of current data breaches including Adobe's own, I don't trust Adobe with continuing control over my financial data.

Second, and more important, just what does CC do with/to my existing 10GB of past photographs? (Example. Will I be required to completely rebuild Lr's catalogs?) I'm assuming it is seamless, but would like confirmation from you guys that have mastered CC.

Three, Just how valuable has the updates/new features been for you? In other words, is it making a difference?

Finally for OS X users, is something like Affinity Photo worth the learning curve and its feature set? This leads to the necessity of leaving something I've bled for over 15 years. Starting over seems daunting.

Thoughts?

Robert



Sep 24, 2017 at 01:34 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


OntheRez wrote:
I'm very close to losing the struggle in my fight to stay with CS6. Lack of new camera profiles. (Don't like .png, and it is another step in the ingest process. Adds process time.) New speed vs OK. Lr getting updated while the stand alone is not. Probably the biggest is the OS moving away from compatibility with Adobe as it does nothing for CS6. Perhaps I'm finally, just taken in by marketing crap.

So four questions. First, can one buy a year's subscription rather than monthly? In light of current data breaches including Adobe's own, I don't trust Adobe with
...Show more
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1124191-REG/adobe_65259312_creative_cloud_photography_plan.html


Second, and more important, just what does CC do with/to my existing 10GB of past photographs? (Example. Will I be required to completely rebuild Lr's catalogs?) I'm assuming it is seamless, but would like confirmation from you guys that have mastered CC.

Ligroom CC will build a new LRcat file for LR CC . I can't remember if it changed/deleted my LR5 cat file (don't think it did) but as long as your properly backed up before you do anything you can run LR5 from the backup .
just be aware that its a fork in the road type of thing . if you do anything in LR5 you won't have those edits/imports in LR CC .

Three, Just how valuable has the updates/new features been for you? In other words, is it making a difference?

when Adobe added dehaze to CC it was a big step up for me its my most used slider . technically LR6 can have a dehire feature using downloaded plugin/presets but I like the native thing .
I can't say other admins have been big but they are welcome . thing is we don't don't what Adobe have up their sleeve . maybe there is a killer feature coming
I will also say that the much maligned LR mobile is pretty useful now and so much better than it was at release . I think its still getting panned by people that haven't used it in a long while . There is also now a web page based version which looks pretty good .



Finally for OS X users, is something like Affinity Photo worth the learning curve and its feature set? This leads to the necessity of leaving something I've bled for over 15 years. Starting over seems daunting.
personally at the moment no . maybe in the future it could be . but in reality the monthly fee stops me thinking about it . I was never going to be in a position to shell out for full blown Photoshop before . and even then I would have been paying much the same as I am now (in lump sums) for the updates (i.e. CS7 > CS8 ........) + grades to Lightroom .







Sep 24, 2017 at 02:03 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


Thanks Ian. Amazing how good you are. Thanks for all the previous help.

I searched adobe.com and only got the "Bill monthly. Must be an answer there, but it isn't obvious.

I plan to back up the lrcat file - just in case. I expect that CC will not effect my existing CS6 versions.

Robert



Sep 24, 2017 at 02:36 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


you can buy a yearly subscription. near the holidays, i have seen specials on them. sometimes amazon will have it for $100 or less for 12 months.


Sep 24, 2017 at 02:52 PM
DanBrown
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


Try this link:

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

Under the Photography plan, there should be a drop down menu offering monthly or annual subscriptions.



Sep 24, 2017 at 03:39 PM
dgdg
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


I bought the non subscription LR upgrade. If I need my CS6, I just convert the image to psd or tiff in LR first.


Sep 24, 2017 at 04:12 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


dgdg wrote:
I bought the non subscription LR upgrade. If I need my CS6, I just convert the image to psd or tiff in LR first.


I also. I don't use CS6 very much though, and certainly not enough to justify the cost of the CC package. As things stand i paid 1025kr for LR6 in May 2015, and i haven't yet seen a LR CC feature that makes me feel i am missing anything. If i had bought the CC plan i would have paid over 100kr per month (current price is 117kr) over that time, which would have cost me 3x as much (and counting). The CC plan is just not worth that much to me, especially given with my very occasional and limited use of PS. I'm just concerned that when i upgrade my PC next, CS6 might stop working. Of course i can get Affinity Photo for 550kr now...



Sep 25, 2017 at 12:49 PM
jstrawman
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


DanBrown wrote:
Try this link:

https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

Under the Photography plan, there should be a drop down menu offering monthly or annual subscriptions.


That is correct, I just checked.



Sep 25, 2017 at 01:53 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


jstrawman wrote:
That is correct, I just checked.


Thanks for the link. I didn't dig hard enough. Still teetering on the edge.

I'll probably jump though I'm looking at Affinity Photo. It seems to quite competent. The challenge of learning a new interface is real. Also, a key issue for me, is the number of actions, add ons, and other 3rd party tools for Ps. I think Affinity would do much better if it defined an open way to plug into their software. Suspect there would be more tools available if they did so.

Robert




Sep 26, 2017 at 11:06 AM
15Bit
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


OntheRez wrote:
Thanks for the link. I didn't dig hard enough. Still teetering on the edge.

I'll probably jump though I'm looking at Affinity Photo. It seems to quite competent. The challenge of learning a new interface is real. Also, a key issue for me, is the number of actions, add ons, and other 3rd party tools for Ps. I think Affinity would do much better if it defined an open way to plug into their software. Suspect there would be more tools available if they did so.

Robert

Try to put a number on the challenge of learning a new interface.

Adobe CC will cost you $120 a year at current prices. Lets assume the pricing will stay fairly steady (i.e. no huge above inflation price hikes), then that is $600 over 5 years (not really worth trying to guess much further ahead than that).

Affinity photo will cost you $50 now. It is not totally clear yet how Serif will finance Affinity photo, but they say every full version upgrade will be paid, with point versions coming for free. The initial release was 2 years ago, and we're still on v1.6, so lets assume an upgrade cost of $50 every 2 years. That would give a difference of around $450 over a 5 year period for PS over Affinity Photo.

If you want to still use LR, then you also need to factor in the cost of a LR 6 license to the Affinity photo cost, which lowers the difference to $300, ignoring any paid upgrades to LR over that period.

So the question is: Is that enough money for you to learn a new interface? Only you can decide that.

Also consider longevity - Adobe is almost certainly going to be around in 5 years, selling some form of Photoshop. Affinity photo, if it fails to carve out a reasonable market niche, probably won't be supported.



Sep 26, 2017 at 11:44 AM
schlotz
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


I know how distasteful the kool-aid approach sounds Robert. In the end, my justification was that I had been paying for each full version of LR since 1.0 and probably would continue. While that's kind of a loose financial justification, having access to what I'm familiar with, and being able to utilize the workflow I've developed over the years was also important to me. What ever enhancements are introduced is just icing to help wash down the taste of the kool-aid

Matt



Sep 27, 2017 at 06:51 AM
OntheRez
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


Ian, thanks for the analysis. I've begun to consider it particularly as CS6 is not updated for new cameras.

The cost of learning an entirely different environment is not trivial. What would be a more useful investment? I've basically decided to "drink the kool-aid." Time invested with alternatives is too great to offset my distaste for Adobe's marketing demands.

I'm not sure how persuasive the "will certainly be around" argument is. I've certainly seen software that dominated its market segments not keep up with change in no small part because they had a yearly rental fee. They've also disappeared. Does anyone remember Dbase? I invested a lot of time and effort into it and did a lot of work. It was amazing how fast it disappeared.

One question. I assume I can retain CS6? If it all goes TU I can at least work with pre-change photos.

Thanks all for the thoughtful discussion. It has been useful to me.

Robert



Sep 27, 2017 at 12:28 PM
Tim Knutson
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


Just so that you all know;

In 2028 Google will buy Adobe for the rights to their software that will allow Google to add editing software to Amazon branded LG refrigerators. They will then abandon the CC subscription plan, giving it out free to all registered Nik owners. They will however, not support it in the future.

Just remember, you heard it here first.



Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


Tim Knutson wrote:
Just so that you all know;

In 2028 Google will buy Adobe for the rights to their software that will allow Google to add editing software to Amazon branded LG refrigerators. They will then abandon the CC subscription plan, giving it out free to all registered Nik owners. They will however, not support it in the future.

Just remember, you heard it here first.


LMAO

I suspect that this will likely happen earlier - say 2020. The scary thing is that Google has the cash to pull something like this off. So here's a conundrum: Google - Adobe, Adobe - Google. Life is filled with difficult choices.



Sep 29, 2017 at 10:04 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


OntheRez wrote:
Three, Just how valuable has the updates/new features been for you? In other words, is it making a difference?


This is the part I'm most interest in.




Sep 29, 2017 at 08:52 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


RustyBug wrote:
This is the part I'm most interest in.



Once I have a catalog backed and up am sure that CS6 won't be overwritten (Can anyone comment on that?), I'm going all in. I'll keep notes,. If anyone hears me yelling "Save me! Save me!" you'll know it go too interesting.

Robert




Sep 30, 2017 at 09:59 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


OntheRez wrote:
I've begun to consider it particularly as CS6 is not updated for new cameras.


Not sure what you mean by that. It has worked for me every time I have got the newest Canon or Nikon cameras.

I figure CS6 should do me for at least ten more years, at which time I will be dead or no longer doing any more post-processing.

Currently I convert my D500 .NEF files to .DNG files and open in ACR. Adds maybe a couple of extra minutes to my post-processing time. Certainly not a big enough deal for me to go to CC, or to some new software.



Sep 30, 2017 at 09:04 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


Imagemaster wrote:
Not sure what you mean by that. It has worked for me every time I have got the newest Canon or Nikon cameras.

I figure CS6 should do me for at least ten more years, at which time I will be dead or no longer doing any more post-processing.

Currently I convert my D500 .NEF files to .DNG files and open in ACR. Adds maybe a couple of extra minutes to my post-processing time. Certainly not a big enough deal for me to go to CC, or to some new software.


You are correct that at this moment any RAW file can be converted to .dng. Two problems with this, well maybe three. First is that on deadline that extra step can be a problem. No I don't hit Ps for every photo, but given the conditions I work under, it is often necessary.

Second, the conversion to .dng depends on someone - Adobe? - continuing to make new RAW file conversions possible. I could be wrong, but I'm near positive that the conversion isn't static thus requires work.

Third, I haven't tested this, but just as RAW converters can give different results (often significantly different) I'm guessing that the conversion to .dng is also subject to variance. I've done some .dng from my 1Dx II. Perhaps it's all in my mind (certainly possible) but the variance is noticeable when compared to the best of the RAW converters.

Yes, we're all dependent on someone making the translator. I certainly don't have that skill. I guess Adobe does this work though that raises a lot of other questions. Perhaps someone with expertise in the area can chime in correct my mistakes here.




Oct 01, 2017 at 01:48 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Up against the Wall! - take 2


There have been several conversations about this in other threads. I have been converting to DNG but based on some of the comments I think I will start to import to LR6 and use the edit in PS command to finish it up went I total control of my output sharpening.

I just tried it. I would cull in DPP, then pick the few I want to work with and then convert to DNG. It does not take much longer to use this new workflow.



Oct 04, 2017 at 12:54 PM





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