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Archive 2017 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

chez
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Steve Spencer wrote:
Go on e-bay and just search for Zeiss Batis 135 f/2.8 APO and you will see several reputable sellers who will sell it to you from Hong Kong and they will even throw in free shipping.

Any idea on their return policies? With the variability in lenses these days, that is a very key point that should be understood before purchase.

Sep 03, 2017 at 06:18 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

chez wrote:
Any idea on their return policies? With the variability in lenses these days, that is a very key point that should be understood before purchase.

I looked at the add and it says 14 day return guaranteed money back, but you have to pay shipping. I am not endorsing them in any way and I haven't bought there. Just noting the prices that are out there.

Sep 03, 2017 at 06:21 PM

chez
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Steve Spencer wrote:
I looked at the add and it says 14 day return guaranteed money back, but you have to pay shipping. I am not endorsing them in any way and I haven't bought there. Just noting the prices that are out there.

Ok, thanks. Looks like a great deal then!

Sep 03, 2017 at 06:27 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

DavidBM wrote:
But to reply more helpfully, depending on what you want you can make decisions now.
If you want near perfect IQ and aren't prepared to carry a kilo class lens, you can buy Batis now. You can be sure that any future GM will be fast and good and thus large.
If you want speed and good quality and compactness keep the L for ever. It's good, and I doubt that anyone will ever make a lens with those (modest) compromises that give you f2 in a moderate form factor.

It's only if you want no compromise optics and speed that you need...Show more →

If Sony follows the 85/1.4 GM's mold, a future Sony 135/1.8 GM should have very smooth OOF rendering but won't be highly corrected for LoCA. As David noted, it will be undoubtedly big and heavy as well.
For a light package with great aberration control and high resolution/contrast with native AF, look no further than the Batis 135/2.8.

Sep 03, 2017 at 07:41 PM

chez
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

It will also be interesting if Sony follows it's 85mm lenses with a big fast 135 1.8 followed up by a light good quality 135 2.8 at a much reduced price tag than the Batis. They did it with the 85 focal length...might just follow on with the 135mm.

Be great to have more choices.

Sep 03, 2017 at 09:00 PM

virtualrain
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

I would love to see Sony come out with a 135 f/2 that's similar in size to the Canon and if they need to make compromises in corner sharpness and LoCA to make it that size and a reasonable price I think those are acceptable trade offs for a portrait lens. But since such a lens would buck the current trend towards optical perfection at any cost, I'm afraid it will never see the light of day.

Sep 04, 2017 at 02:56 AM

philip_pj
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Canon did great to keep a 135/2 with AF to 750g. The problem is now this: in the light of the big step up made by the new releases over the past two years - Milvus, ART, Batis 135mm and in other focal lengths with GM, now CV - the market now has raised expectations with respect to $1200-1500 plus lenses. Portrait lenses are a little off to the side, it's the one use case where less definition can be more aesthetic, and this is what's behind the craving of fast lenses, e.g. 135/2.

The fastest aperture is often quite poor technically, but it's traditional to want this look and photographers often stick to what prevailed in the past. The fast lenses were originally a hedge against slow film speeds then acquired a kind of halo status. On the other hand, it's up to makers of slower lenses to 'show their wares' convincingly. Zeiss are not ones to shout about their product, you can take it or leave it, that's the prerogative of small boutique makers.

Sep 04, 2017 at 03:40 AM

Jonathan Brady
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

virtualrain wrote:
I would love to see Sony come out with a 135 f/2 that's similar in size to the Canon and if they need to make compromises in corner sharpness and LoCA to make it that size and a reasonable price I think those are acceptable trade offs for a portrait lens. But since such a lens would buck the current trend towards optical perfection at any cost, I'm afraid it will never see the light of day.

yep... exactly this.

Sep 04, 2017 at 05:32 AM

stevesanacore
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Looks like we'll have to keep that Canon 135 f2 L. I think it's doubtful Sony, Sigma or Zeiss will offer something with those qualities - light - compact - fast - and inexpensive, (compared to current trends). As Virtualrain and Phillip as hinted at, any lens released from now on will be held to such a high standard that those days may have passed.

Sep 04, 2017 at 01:46 PM

virtualrain
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

stevesanacore wrote:
Looks like we'll have to keep that Canon 135 f2 L. I think it's doubtful Sony, Sigma or Zeiss will offer something with those qualities - light - compact - fast - and inexpensive, (compared to current trends). As Virtualrain and Phillip as hinted at, any lens released from now on will be held to such a high standard that those days may have passed.

I guess the good side is that the Sony Mirrorless platform allows us to use all of these legacy lenses with desirable trade-offs. But with EyeAF being a game changer for portraiture, this enormous ecosystem still leaves us wanting better adapters or native glass with the same mix of compromises.

Sep 04, 2017 at 02:18 PM

Jonathan Brady
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

virtualrain wrote:
But with EyeAF being a game changer for portraiture, this enormous ecosystem still leaves us wanting better adapters or native glass with the same mix of compromises.

You know what... In my VERY limited experience (I can't emphasize how VERY limited it is, quite enough), Eye AF isn't the game changer I thought it would be. And I mean that in a GREAT way. I'm finding that face detection is giving me perfect focus on the eyes, as-is.

Again, I'd like to emphasize that I haven't used this system, or Eye AF, enough to have a well-developed opinion. This is just an early observation through limited usage. Anyone else getting similar (GREAT) results with face detection AF?

Sep 04, 2017 at 02:48 PM

virtualrain
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady wrote:
You know what... In my VERY limited experience (I can't emphasize how VERY limited it is, quite enough), Eye AF isn't the game changer I thought it would be. And I mean that in a GREAT way. I'm finding that face detection is giving me perfect focus on the eyes, as-is.

Again, I'd like to emphasize that I haven't used this system, or Eye AF, enough to have a well-developed opinion. This is just an early observation through limited usage. Anyone else getting similar (GREAT) results with face detection AF?

I agree. When Eye-AF doesn't catch an eye (usually due to distance) face detection works equally as well. It might be the added distance and DoF that enables this.

Sep 04, 2017 at 03:33 PM

GabrielPhoto
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

This is relative to the dof. If you are using a 2.8 lens depending on the distance to subject,the dof may be big enough that face dection alone can give you great results.
Different story when using the 85mm 1.4, 135mm 1.8 or 300mm 2.8 (depending on distance to subject still but less forgiving)

Jonathan Brady wrote:
You know what... In my VERY limited experience (I can't emphasize how VERY limited it is, quite enough), Eye AF isn't the game changer I thought it would be. And I mean that in a GREAT way. I'm finding that face detection is giving me perfect focus on the eyes, as-is.

Again, I'd like to emphasize that I haven't used this system, or Eye AF, enough to have a well-developed opinion. This is just an early observation through limited usage. Anyone else getting similar (GREAT) results with face detection AF?

Sep 04, 2017 at 03:48 PM

Jonathan Brady
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Well... I may have just found my answer to this dilemma... I'm on my lunch break at home and I snagged the 135L and put it on the α7RII and grabbed Maya (my Siberian Husky) and out we went into the yard. She's my model :-) And she's GREAT at it! Also, the fact that the fur on her face is white and the outlining of her eyes is PITCH BLACK is GREAT for contrast when trying to autofocus. I've used her for AFMA on my Canon bodies for years with fantastic success.

Anyway, if this combo was going to perform at even an average level, this test would tell me. Out of 11 images I took, all of them were focused perfectly on her eye (single point AF with AF-C). HOWEVER, the camera racked focus on the lens every single time. I concluded our test and went back inside. Then I realized I was in AF-C, so I took her back out and tried it with AF-S and I had the same issue, but the degree to which the camera racked focus wasn't as large, but it was still present.

Again, this is what I would consider to be an ideal situation, with the exception perhaps of being close to my subject but that's a reality of how I'd use the lens) and the combo just didn't perform up to my standards.

So, I believe I'm going to have to pick up the Batis 135, if I want truly excellent AF, as everything I've read about it says the AF is fantastic.

Here's a test shot I took (no consideration given to aesthetics) for putting up with my ramblings :-)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4394/36649832670_eb48c6e9a2_o.jpg

Sep 05, 2017 at 11:21 AM

Jonathan Brady
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

and a 100% crop for anyone who's curious about detail...

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4409/36211819044_b6b2e892a0_o.jpg

Sep 05, 2017 at 11:26 AM

maestrofilms
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Are you using a Metabones adapter? If you are it seems you might be in advanced mode?

In green mode the focus doesn't rack like that at all with mine.

Sep 05, 2017 at 11:30 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan, you can get more secure tracking capabilities, even in AF-C mode, if you set the Metabones on the green mode.

Sep 05, 2017 at 11:32 AM

Jonathan Brady
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

I'll have to give green mode a try, then. I've kept it in advanced mode because I value Eye AF but I'm finding that face detection AF is practically as good as Eye AF. Time to retest...

Sep 05, 2017 at 11:47 AM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady wrote:
I'll have to give green mode a try, then. I've kept it in advanced mode because I value Eye AF but I'm finding that face detection AF is practically as good as Eye AF. Time to retest...

You know you still can get face detection AF in the green mode, right? That's my preferred AF mode for my Sigma 135mm Art now.

Sep 05, 2017 at 12:09 PM

Jonathan Brady
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Does anyone remember the Blockbuster Video jingle from 30 years ago? It just played in my head with "green box mode" substituted for "Blockbuster Video"...

"Green box mode... WOW! What a difference!"

I just fired off 23 shots and ZERO hunting. 2 were out of focus, though (first shot and 19th shot). I defocused and refocused and acquisition was good in both AF-S and AF-C. Quite usable, for sure. Probably not for action, but that's not why I have the lens.

Thanks guys! VERY happy with the AF of the 135L adapted now that I've used it in Green Box mode.

Test shot in GBM

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4378/36212695314_3fde3c6301_o.jpg

and a 100% crop of the details...

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4348/36212695114_c5601c6248_o.jpg

Sep 05, 2017 at 12:13 PM

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