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Archive 2017 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

I'm mid-transition from Canon to Sony and so far I have:

α7RII
16-35 f/4
55mm f/1.8
Batis 85
FE 70-300
Metabones IV

100 STF
Batis 135
rumored lens from Sony: 135mm f/? (1.8 or 2)

Am I missing any native E mount options? (autofocus only, please)

Here's the conundrum... Size and weight are important to me (I prefer smaller when possible) and given Sony's latest releases, I'm not expecting a 135 at f/1.8 or 2 to be small or light - so my guess is that this isn't really an option for that reason, and also because as of today, such a lens doesn't actually exist! lol

So, that leaves me with the 100 STF and the Batis 135.

Focal length wise, the Batis offers more variety compared to what I already have (the Batis 85)
Aperture wise they're the same, although the 100 STF will allow me to be closer to my subject for the same framing (MFD notwithstanding) which will allow more blurring of the background
Speaking of blur, as amazing as Zeiss is, STF wins the blur argument, hands down (I prefer the STF blur over traditional lens blur that we're all used to)

A point I've considered is, although it's not a perfect solution, a 1.6x crop on the Batis 85 gets it to an angle of view of ~135mm and a subject isolation equivalent to ~f/2.8. Obviously, I'm losing pixels in terms of overall resolution, but the Batis 85 is pretty darn capable when it comes to resolution. But, there's no trickery I can do to achieve STF blur.

I've found "deals" on both lenses and after discounts, they're about $230 apart, new, from authorized dealers. So, the cost difference isn't a big deal.

Options are, of course, to wait, buy one or the other, or stick with the 4 lenses I have and adapt the 135L instead.

I'm pretty sure I've reached the "analysis paralysis" stage at this point and I've decided on each option at least twice, and then changed my mind. Any chance y'all can help?

NOTE: I don't think there's a BAD option among the bunch, so I have that going for me :-D

Sep 02, 2017 at 06:46 PM

MikeEvangelist
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

I'd at least start by shooting with the 135L, since you already have it. I found it to be quite nice on the Sony (although I ultimately got the Sony 135mm 1.8, which is a dream).

Sep 02, 2017 at 07:16 PM

Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

MikeEvangelist wrote:
I'd at least start by shooting with the 135L, since you already have it. I found it to be quite nice on the Sony

I have, but only indoors so far. I find that in close up portraits, it hunts quite a bit (latest fw for camera and adapter).
I definitely need to get outdoors with it. Indoors with the 100 STF will definitely be a challenge, if not practically impossible, and that's something to be considered too. The STF would be an outdoors-only lens while the Batis 135 can pull double duty and I do shoot 135 indoors often enough.

Sep 02, 2017 at 07:37 PM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan, I would stick with the Canon for the time being, too. At least, until we know what the next Sony GM lens would be. I got the hunch it would be indeed a fast 135mm lens f/2 or even f/1.8. The drawback with a fast lens in that focal length is the weight and bulk. You cannot get over the physical requirements for those specifications. But at least, it would be a native lens, which is indeed better than an adapted lens AF-wise. I went for the Sigma 135mm Art route for the time being as you know. I would not take that lens on a trip where I have to fly but use it on a regular basis locally. It is a spectacular lens for what it does and costs.

The Batis 135mm, as we discussed a lot on this forum, is an optically great lens but a little on the slow side, which some folks find acceptable. I don't want to talk about the price of the Batis here. We had plenty of discussions in that respect.

Sep 02, 2017 at 07:48 PM

maestrofilms
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

The 135L is awesome. I use that or the Batis 85 in crop mode. You have both also, so you're good until the native Sony comes out.
The STF is great, but just too close to 85, at least for me.

Sep 02, 2017 at 08:11 PM

bjornthun
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

If the Canon lens works ok, I would hang on to it for now, and wait to see if the rumoured fast Sony 135 FE materializes some time this autumn. The Zeiss Batis is light and f/2.8 and a rumoured Sony 135 FE should be f/1.8 or f/2 but heavy. This conundrum has been discussed from every possible angle in the long thread about the Batis 135/2.8. Only you can decide. I would wait and see all the cards on the table first, before selling the Canon 135/2.

Sony has a Sony/Zeiss 35/1.4 and a Sony/Zeiss 35/2.8, both AF, but there is no native 35/2 with AF. There is a rumour about a native Sigma 35/1.4 FE, that will be smaller than the Sony/Zeiss 35/1.4. The catch with the Sony/Zeiss 35/1.4 is about getting a well centered sample. It may be worth keeping the Canon 35/1.4 until the possible native Sigma 35/1.4 shows up and then decide.

Sep 02, 2017 at 08:14 PM

DavidBM
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady wrote:
I'm mid-transition from Canon to Sony and so far I have:

α7RII
16-35 f/4
55mm f/1.8
Batis 85
FE 70-300
Metabones IV

Sep 02, 2017 at 10:12 PM

DavidBM
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady wrote:
I have, but only indoors so far. I find that in close up portraits, it hunts quite a bit (latest fw for camera and adapter).
I definitely need to get outdoors with it. Indoors with the 100 STF will definitely be a challenge, if not practically impossible, and that's something to be considered too. The STF would be an outdoors-only lens while the Batis 135 can pull double duty and I do shoot 135 indoors often enough.

But to reply more helpfully, depending on what you want you can make decisions now.
If you want near perfect IQ and aren't prepared to carry a kilo class lens, you can buy Batis now. You can be sure that any future GM will be fast and good and thus large.
If you want speed and good quality and compactness keep the L for ever. It's good, and I doubt that anyone will ever make a lens with those (modest) compromises that give you f2 in a moderate form factor.

It's only if you want no compromise optics and speed that you need to wait assuming that an adapted Sigma is unacceptable, and you can surely tell if that's what you want before it comes out...

Sep 02, 2017 at 10:28 PM

virtualrain
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady wrote:
I'm mid-transition from Canon to Sony and so far I have:

α7RII
16-35 f/4
55mm f/1.8
Batis 85
FE 70-300
Metabones IV

As I'm mid-transition, I still have the 35L II and 135L along with my 5D Mark IV. I've already sold off the 16-35 f/4L IS, Sigma 50mm Art, 85L II, 100L Macro IS, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 2x Extender version III, and 24-105 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM.

I'd like to add an additional portrait lens to vary my capabilities with the Sony system and I'd like it to be a native E mount lens, so the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art is out (I wouldn't want it...Show more →

I went through the same process recently and ultimately determined that cropping my Batis 85 is the best solution. But travel and candid street is my primary use case. Nothing else you're considering (that's actually available) will offer any better subject isolation and only add weight and cost. If you really want the ultimate portrait solution consider replacing the Batis 85 with the GM 85. If you crop that to the equivalent of 135mm you will have about f/2. For street I found f/1.4 unpractical so the Batis (cropped where necessary) is really the ultimate solution for my needs.

Sep 02, 2017 at 11:13 PM

Alexluu627
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Wrong choices all!!

Get a zeiss 135mm f2 apo!!!!

Sep 03, 2017 at 01:19 AM

Jonathan Brady
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Interesting that no one has recommended the 100 STF thus far. Based on what I'm thinking, and the thinking of the forum members here, what I'm looking for may never exist, and that is: a native mount 135mm f/2 that is reasonably sized/weighted.

It appears as though I'm either stuck with adapting my 135L or paying through the nose for an optically great, but slow (in terms of primes) Batis. I'm not ecstatic about either option...

Alexluu627 wrote:
Wrong choices all!!

Get a zeiss 135mm f2 apo!!!!

Oh, I would... if it met two of my mandatory requirements... autofocus and native mount.

Sep 03, 2017 at 06:08 AM

Luvwine
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady wrote:
Interesting that no one has recommended the 100 STF thus far. Based on what I'm thinking, and the thinking of the forum members here, what I'm looking for may never exist, and that is: a native mount 135mm f/2 that is reasonably sized/weighted.

It appears as though I'm either stuck with adapting my 135L or paying through the nose for an optically great, but slow (in terms of primes) Batis. I'm not ecstatic about either option...

Oh, I would... if it met two of my mandatory requirements... autofocus and native mount.

I think that not many have the 100 STF. I do, and for the right portrait, it is awesome, but it is a more specialized portrait tool. For me, for general use, it is surprisingly versatile--works great for flowers and semi-macro, it is extremely sharp across the frame and surprisingly well corrected for CA, and has unsurpassed bokeh. Its light transmission is the sticking point for many and, I suspect, the reason it may not have sold as well.

I love having it in the bag for portrait along with my GM 85 as they give completely different looks. Each can do things the other cannot. It is light and sharp. Blurring the background at portrait distances is good, but perhaps less good than you might expect as you either need a pretty tight framing or a distant background to really blur out the background. The quality of bokeh is amazing, just not the quantity. I love it, but it is not for those who want the one eye in focus look. Of course, you can do that easily with lots of fast portrait lenses. You will get more compression at 135. Choose your poison. In case this is of interest:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1502830/0#14133589

Sep 03, 2017 at 06:29 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Jonathan Brady wrote:
Interesting that no one has recommended the 100 STF thus far. Based on what I'm thinking, and the thinking of the forum members here, what I'm looking for may never exist, and that is: a native mount 135mm f/2 that is reasonably sized/weighted.

It appears as though I'm either stuck with adapting my 135L or paying through the nose for an optically great, but slow (in terms of primes) Batis. I'm not ecstatic about either option...

Oh, I would... if it met two of my mandatory requirements... autofocus and native mount.

I think a native mount 135 f/2 is going to be at least 800g even if they tried to make it small. The Canon 135L is 750g and if you just added the needed material to account for the shorter flange length, then even as a native mount it would be 800g. You can pick up the Batis 135 APO for $1,650 new and it weighs just over 600g. Even if there was something like the 135L in E mount it would be 800g and even $1,100 would be a very optimistic price. To me a 135L like lens designed for E mount is still noticeably bigger and heavier than the Batis. I think the choice is really between a 135 lens that is f/2 (or f/1.8) and that is larger or a 135 f/2.8 lens that is quite a bit smaller. That choice isn't going to change. If you want a 135 with AF in native mount, then the Batis represents a pretty unique lens for E mount--an f/2.8 and therefore smaller lens but one that is very highly corrected and optically excellent. If you want an f/2 (or f/1.8) lens, however, you are going to have to wait and it won't be small, but I don't think any 135 f/2 lens is really that small including the 135L.

Sep 03, 2017 at 06:49 AM

bjornthun
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

The A-mount Sony/Zeiss 135/1.8 weighs 995 grams without lens caps, adapter or lens hood. The lens hood is a massive chunk weighing an additional 200 grams. Don't expect a native E mount Sony 135/1.8 to be light.

Sep 03, 2017 at 07:02 AM

GMPhotography
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

I'm very happy with my Batis 135 for several reasons.most important is I don't need to stop it down a stop to get excellent resolution out of it like most lenses, so at 2.8 it's amazing. The size and weight I also like as I'm getting old of carrying heavier , bulkier gear. I did my punishment on my body for 40 plus years. I'm over it now and it affected my health all those years. Bad knees, back and hips. Trust me this stuff takes its toll on you body. Yea it's a 2.8 and you hear the complaints BUT have you ever heard anyone complain about a 200 2.8 or 70-200 2.8 being slow. Not really as it's expected, just have to adjust that to 135 which I have. I'll see what Sony brings out if anything but right now it's getting things done and the AF isfast as lightning.

Sep 03, 2017 at 09:17 AM

stevesanacore
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

I think the Canon 135 f2 L just really spoiled everyone. I have one and love it but don't like having to use the adapter. Doesn't anyone think there is a chance that Sony will make a 135 f2.8 FE for a reasonable price like under $1000? Their 28 f2 and 85 f1.8 are excellent options so far. Lightweight and inexpensive.

I do agree with Guy that 2.8 perfectly adequate for a 135 if you're looking for compactness.

Sep 03, 2017 at 10:23 AM

chez
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Steve Spencer wrote:
I think a native mount 135 f/2 is going to be at least 800g even if they tried to make it small. The Canon 135L is 750g and if you just added the needed material to account for the shorter flange length, then even as a native mount it would be 800g. You can pick up the Batis 135 APO for $1,650 new and it weighs just over 600g. Even if there was something like the 135L in E mount it would be 800g and even $1,100 would be a very optimistic price. To me a 135L like lens...Show more →

For me, I'd trade off weight versus speed for the 135. It's a theatre / concert and portrait lens for me so carrying in a pack to the event is no problem and using that weight during the shoot is OK. I'd gladly take an f2 at 800g or a 1.8 at 1200g as long as their price is reasonable. Right now I get by with the 135L and don't find the weight too much. The ability to use 1.8 at this focal length is more important than the weight.

Now I don't take my 135L when traveling, but I typically do not shoot anything longer than 85 during travels.

Sep 03, 2017 at 10:52 AM

artur5
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

If the 85mm focal length is something to go for, it's not unlikely that Sony releases first a fast 135 GM F1.8 -2 and some time later a very good but reasonably priced 135/2.8. By affordable I mean S700-900. Sure that lens won't come until the Batis 135 has been in the market for at least one year and maybe they'll never release it. Nobody knows except Sony and maybe Zeiss.
If you can wait, I agree with some people here, keep the Canon 135L for the time being. This lens is right now the best compromise between size/speed/QI and cost... but not native. If you can't wait and you need FE mount then get the Batis 135, a terrific lens and the only game in town but at a very steep premium price, right into Leica's territory. Also, while not heavy, it's the bulkiest 135/2.8 ever made for the FF format.
My bet is that patience would reward you with at least $1k in savings at the expense of a little loss in QI, but I'm not a good gambler, so don't take my words as the Gospel.

Sep 03, 2017 at 11:23 AM

Justin Stone
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Where can I get a Batis 135 2.8 for $1650?

Steve Spencer wrote:
I think a native mount 135 f/2 is going to be at least 800g even if they tried to make it small. The Canon 135L is 750g and if you just added the needed material to account for the shorter flange length, then even as a native mount it would be 800g. You can pick up the Batis 135 APO for $1,650 new and it weighs just over 600g. Even if there was something like the 135L in E mount it would be 800g and even $1,100 would be a very optimistic price. To me a 135L like lens...Show more →

Sep 03, 2017 at 05:36 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Help me think this through - Batis 135, Mystery 135 (rumored), 100 STF

Justin Stone wrote:
Where can I get a Batis 135 2.8 for $1650?

Go on e-bay and just search for Zeiss Batis 135 f/2.8 APO and you will see several reputable sellers who will sell it to you from Hong Kong and they will even throw in free shipping.

Sep 03, 2017 at 05:43 PM

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