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Archive 2017 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

skyloverz
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

I'd be interested in opinions on advantages/disadvantages

I currently own a new Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster...
I'd like to have more focal length
seems to me the new Sony 2 x teleconvertor could be a pretty nice way to go
and surely less costly than buying the new
SONY 100-400 Gmaster, about to be released

OPINIONS ? Info ?

Thank you !

bruce

Jul 14, 2017 at 04:33 PM

Parariss
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

The 100-400 hasn't been released yet, so no one can speak from experience.

That said, teleconverters degrade image quality so the 100-400 will assuredly be better (and take a teleconverter, itself).

Jul 14, 2017 at 05:16 PM

SoundHound
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Most 1.4X TC combos are fine with satisfactory IQ. However, despite all our hopes, 2X TCs are optically unsatisfactory. It seems the use of most any 2X TC yields such poor IQ such that you would do better to crop. Also with other than F2.8 lenses the two stop light loss results in a F8 or darker lense combo.

For some Ultra tele primes a 1.7X TC (Nikon only) seems to be effective. Certain lenses are notable for "Taking" a TC better than others. So for those lenses (ex: Nikon 400mm F2.8 VR) a 2X TC may be acceptable. However, once again, a 1.4X TC and a crop may still be better than a 2X TC.

Jul 14, 2017 at 06:13 PM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

The previous two posters are largely correct. We are probably expecting too much out of the 2X TC. This applies to all brands out there, BTW. Especially, if you combine the 2X TC with a zoom lens. I do have the Sony FE 1.4X and Sony FE 2X TC. While I am pleased with the results of the 1.4X TC with the GM 70-200mm combo but the results with the 2X are only OK. I still would use it if push comes to shove but I anticipate the GM 100-400 lens will beat that combo handily.

As in the Canon world, I still have my long Canon super tele lenses and both Canon TCs, those long lenses can handle both TCs well and for sure better than any Canon zoom lenses out there. So, in anticipation of a long prime lens that bears the Sony label, I am keeping both and I hope it will bear fruit in a year or so

Jul 14, 2017 at 06:47 PM

scrappydog
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Parariss wrote:
That said, teleconverters degrade image quality so the 100-400 will assuredly be better (and take a teleconverter, itself).

This hasn't been the case for me shooting the Canon 1.4x III teleconverter with the Canon 100-400 II or Canon 500/4 II on my A7RII. I cannot notice a difference in IQ or AF when I use that TC.

Jul 14, 2017 at 08:59 PM

MedicineMan404
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Joshua I'm rolling the dice....well have already rolled the dice on the Sony FE teleconverters--both 1.4 and 2.0 are sitting here awaiting the FE100-400.
I'm not concerned with the 1.4 on this lens, because my 1.4TCiii + EOS 100-400ii did fine (on a 1D series body)...and I know Sony is putting out their 100-400 to beat Canon's excellent model.
The 2.0 on the other hand is the gamble. I don't have high hopes but maybe Sony has given us a gold nugget---we'll know in around two weeks

Jul 14, 2017 at 09:07 PM

Luvwine
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

I will quibble in that I have achieved good results with Leica R 2x apo extenders. I suspect these are better than most, however. I never liked my Canon 2X extenders.

Jul 14, 2017 at 09:31 PM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Luvwine wrote:
I will quibble in that I have achieved good results with Leica R 2x apo extenders. I suspect these are better than most, however. I never liked my Canon 2X extenders.

Stephen, it depends on the lens or lenses being used with the 2X TC. In my experience usin Canon long prime lenses tend to fare significantly better than zoom lenses.

Jul 14, 2017 at 10:18 PM

Matt Kerby
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Right now I'm using the very large and heavy Sigma Sport E-mount with a 1DIV for my long lens, (awesome combo but cumbersome) I pre-ordered the 100-400 hoping and expecting that, with the the 1.4x, it will be an excellent replacement (also about 5 lbs lighter with the a9/100-400/1.4x) and looking forward to you guy's tests for the 2x conclusion.

Jul 14, 2017 at 11:53 PM

Frogfish
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Whilst I haven't used any of the Sony TCs this is another vote for using TCs with large primes (500/4 and 300/2.8 in my case) over cropping. Absolutely no case to be made in my opinion with x1.7 (Pentax) and x2.0 (Nikon). However using those same Nikon x1.4 and x2.0 TCs on Nikon zooms was a complete failure not worth the effort, in terms of both AF and IQ.

Of course virtually everyone using TCs is doing so for use in wildlife/birds, in which case a 100-400 is generally just an acceptable lens for that purpose anyway but not an outstanding one. An older 300/2.8 / 400/2.8 or 500/4 + TC is definitely an upgrade.

Jul 15, 2017 at 01:27 AM

MedicineMan404
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Do you wonder this close to release/ship date why no more than the scant review out there?

Jul 15, 2017 at 01:41 AM

virtualrain
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

MedicineMan404 wrote:
Do you wonder this close to release/ship date why no more than the scant review out there?

What's more perplexing to me are the lack of 70-200 GM reviews a year later, especially with the TCs. Roger at Lensrentals did a fairly damning review of that lens that caused quite a stir and I believe Sony got involved and despite suggestions of a follow up review, nothing ever materialized. While I have seen some decent photos from that lens, I've not heard much at all. It's a bit of an enigma. I wonder how it's selling and how it's performing. Unfortunately here at FM, there seems to be a lot more interest in the UWA than telephoto focal lengths so few members seem to post much.

Does anyone here actually own the 70-200?

Jul 15, 2017 at 11:30 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

virtualrain wrote:
What's more perplexing to me are the lack of 70-200 GM reviews a year later, especially with the TCs. Roger at Lensrentals did a fairly damning review of that lens that caused quite a stir and I believe Sony got involved and despite suggestions of a follow up review, nothing ever materialized. While I have seen some decent photos from that lens, I've not heard much at all. It's a bit of an enigma. I wonder how it's selling and how it's performing. Unfortunately here at FM, there seems to be a lot more interest in the UWA than telephoto...Show more →

See photos from Lucinda. She has the lens and loves and has some pretty stunning shots with it. Guy has also used the lens, but just rented it awhile back. I think a few others may have it as well.

Jul 15, 2017 at 12:32 PM

Phillip Reeve
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Steve Spencer wrote:
See photos from Lucinda. She has the lens and loves and has some pretty stunning shots with it. Guy has also used the lens, but just rented it awhile back. I think a few others may have it as well.
Did they show full resolution images which contradic Roger's findings? A few weeks ago I did some research and found no evidence which did. From all the evidence I found it is a good enough lens but not on par with CaNikons current 2.8/70-200 lenses. So the a7rii will be limited by this lens and not the other way round therefore putting a TC on it doesn't make much sense.

Jul 15, 2017 at 01:10 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Jul 15, 2017 at 01:25 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Phillip Reeve wrote:
Did they show full resolution images which contradic Roger's findings? A few weeks ago I did some research and found no evidence which did. From all the evidence I found it is a good enough lens but not on par with CaNikons current 2.8/70-200 lenses. So the a7rii will be limited by this lens and not the other way round therefore putting a TC on it doesn't make much sense.

Phillip,

As Fred says, part of Roger's results are that the lens varies a lot from copy to copy, so it is hard (perhaps impossible) to test just one copy and produce results that contradict Roger's findings. Someone has a good copy--that is consistent. Someone has a pretty poor copy--that is also consistent. Some tests here (like this one: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1462589/0?keyword=70-200#13818690) and DXO look pretty good as well as shots by Lucinda and Joshua suggest the lens can be quite nice. Other times and other tests the lens doesn't look so good. To me all of that is consistent with Roger's tests. If you knew you had a good copy of the lens it might make sense to put a TC on it, but I will be very surprised if the 100-400 isn't quite a bit better than the shorter lens with the TC even if someone has a pretty good copy.

Jul 15, 2017 at 02:37 PM

Phillip Reeve
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

Steve Spencer wrote:
Phillip,

As Fred says, part of Roger's results are that the lens varies a lot from copy to copy, so it is hard (perhaps impossible) to test just one copy and produce results that contradict Roger's findings. Someone has a good copy--that is consistent. Someone has a pretty poor copy--that is also consistent. Some tests here (like this one: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1462589/0?keyword=70-200#13818690) and DXO look pretty good as well as shots by Lucinda and Joshua suggest the lens can be quite nice. Other times and other tests the lens doesn't look so good. To me all of that is consistent with Roger's...Show more →
Has Roger ever published variance data for it? I can't find any, just his recent comment. Usually there is very little variance on axis so the relatively weak on axis performance at 200mm (just 50% at 40 LP/mm whereas the Nikon FL is above 65%) should show in any test. But both the Canon IS II and Nikon VRII show nearly as much variance on axis as off axis: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/08/70-200mm-f2-8-mtf-and-variations/ so it would be plausible to assume that the GM does too and my assumption would be wrong. But that is speculation since all we know is that it shows above average variation, not how it varies.

Since some people were much more positive in their assessment of the lens than Roger I looked for solid evidence of copies which perform significantly better but so far I haven't found any. The folders in the post you linked are empty.

Jul 15, 2017 at 03:56 PM

skyloverz
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

I started this thread, and do have the new 70-200 GMaster
it's understandable that there aren't so many " reviews " out.. this is an expensive lens. Many
" expert reviewers" sitting in their armchairs pontificating on the few REAL expert reviews, are to busy " analyzing " other peoples work, to busy to actually go buy none and try it
I am definitely no expert, but this shot at 200 MM F5, on my A9 last weekend seems OK to me, grabbed out of sequence of my=aybe 30 sequential frames, all nicely focused, all shot at ~ 15 FPS
But again, I'm just an end user, no expert

Bruce

Jul 15, 2017 at 07:46 PM

skyloverz
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

A Bumbly Bee caught in flight
Sony A-9 Sony 70-200 F2.8 G
173 MM F4 1/200
Yea I'm liking this lens

Jul 15, 2017 at 08:06 PM

skyloverz
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Sony 70-200 F2.8 Gmaster W/ 2 x tele VS new 100-400 Gmaster

a better bee at 200 %
173 MM F4 1/200 A-9 70-200 F2.8 G

Jul 15, 2017 at 08:23 PM

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