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Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

  
 
RobDickinson
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p.27 #1 · p.27 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


ISO 40,000
www.zarphag.com/6d2/IMG_9140.CR2

ISO 1600
www.zarphag.com/6d2/IMG_9134.CR2



Jul 07, 2017 at 06:37 PM
cgarcia
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p.27 #2 · p.27 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RobDickinson wrote:
one from this morning, whites clipped, blacks at about 3 I think

www.zarphag.com/6d2/IMG_9210.CR2


Exactly the same results with IMG_9210 (the same 11.9 EV):

ReadNoise=7.5455 [email protected]=11.0384 [email protected]=11.8937 file { IMG_9210_0.pgm }
image { mean=1367.13 min=401 max=16383 } left mask { mean=512.715 min=477 max=546 crop=56x4172+2+48 }

It there will be only very little variation no matter the picture we choose.

The dynamic range is very easy to measure (specially with Canon which uses masked pixels).

Some people critiquize the DXO dynamic range definition, but every other definition out there (e.g. "photographic dynamic range") merely adds/substracts a fixed offset, even worse introducing external variables (e.g. circle of confusion) which only serve to make the results non comparable across cameras. And DXO does not uses the method I post here, but usually they yield nearly the same values.

It is 99,999% safe to state that the 6D2 has zero dynamic range improvement at low ISO compared to the 6D.



Jul 07, 2017 at 06:53 PM
RobDickinson
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p.27 #3 · p.27 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Well as I intend to shoot my low iso landscapes on an a7r2 anyhow.. I hope the high iso is good!


Jul 07, 2017 at 06:56 PM
jcolwell
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p.27 #4 · p.27 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Too bad. Good to know, though. Thanks for sharing the (disappointing) results.


Jul 07, 2017 at 06:59 PM
cgarcia
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p.27 #5 · p.27 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


myaeroplace wrote:
What does this test suggest about how the sensor compares to the original 6D? I'm asking because now I'm considering changing my preorder and just getting a Mk4 if this new body won't offer any improved sensor performance over the original 6D.


The 6D2 dynamic range is a 100% match at low ISO compared to the 6D (no improvement at all).
The slight differences are mostly within measure errors and the nature randomness.
The 80D shadows recovery capability is much, much better (only 0.5-1 EV under Sony, instead of 2.1-2.6 EV).

The 6D2 sensor could however have improved in other subjects: banding (already good), color rendition, high ISO... time will tell.



Jul 07, 2017 at 07:01 PM
arbitrage
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p.27 #6 · p.27 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Is this sensor still on the old fabs? Seems an odd choice from Canon. Maybe it is a high-ISO beast like D5?


Jul 07, 2017 at 07:09 PM
cgarcia
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p.27 #7 · p.27 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RobDickinson wrote:
ISO 40,000
www.zarphag.com/6d2/IMG_9140.CR2

ISO 1600
www.zarphag.com/6d2/IMG_9134.CR2


The ISO 1600 file is not available for download.
The ISO 40000 is available but not a lot useful to compare with the 6D.

In fact, any ISO above 6400 or 12800 is usually fake, and obtained applying digital gain (instead of analog amplification).
That is, a ISO 6400 photo from the 6D is in fact better that the same picture at ISO 25600 (the last merely clips further the highlights).



Jul 07, 2017 at 07:09 PM
lighthound
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p.27 #8 · p.27 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Rob, I know you said you got this from Canon New Zealand, but I'd really like to know where they got this camera came from. Is it actually a production model or one of the test bodies that was sent out to testers some time back? Is there any chance these images are off from a beta model?


Jul 07, 2017 at 07:16 PM
EB-1
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p.27 #9 · p.27 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


cgarcia wrote:
Some people critiquize the DXO dynamic range definition, but every other definition out there (e.g. "photographic dynamic range") merely adds/substracts a fixed offset, even worse introducing external variables (e.g. circle of confusion) which only serve to make the results non comparable across cameras. And DXO does not uses the method I post here, but usually they yield nearly the same values.

It is 99,999% safe to state that the 6D2 has zero dynamic range improvement at low ISO compared to the 6D.


Famous last words.

EBH




Jul 07, 2017 at 07:21 PM
cgarcia
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p.27 #10 · p.27 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


EB-1 wrote:
Famous last words.

EBH



I used comma instead of point to separate the decimals... :-)

The 0.001% is in my opinion the chance of this being a preproduction sample and Canon being delivering the production model with another entirely different sensor.

The measured 6D2 sample has no DR improvement over the 6D with 100.000% confidence.



Jul 07, 2017 at 07:36 PM
myaeroplace
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p.27 #11 · p.27 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


What does that EV difference relate to in real world use? I'm trying to weight the differences between the 6D2 and the 5D4. I know you all mentioned landscape photography in particular would be worse, but what other real world impact does that lower DR have compared to the 5D4?

cgarcia wrote:
The 6D2 dynamic range is a 100% match at low ISO compared to the 6D (no improvement at all).
The slight differences are mostly within measure errors and the nature randomness.
The 80D shadows recovery capability is much, much better (only 0.5-1 EV under Sony, instead of 2.1-2.6 EV).

The 6D2 sensor could however have improved in other subjects: banding (already good), color rendition, high ISO... time will tell.




Jul 07, 2017 at 07:38 PM
Aztatlan
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p.27 #12 · p.27 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


myaeroplace wrote:
What does that EV difference relate to in real world use? I'm trying to weight the differences between the 6D2 and the 5D4. I know you all mentioned landscape photography in particular would be worse, but what other real world impact does that lower DR have compared to the 5D4?



Any time you aren't totally in control of the lighting of the scene you are shooting, extra dynamic range is potentially useful. I say potentially as it will of course depend on the scene. Landscape photography is the obvious example and probably the most relevant but honestly I can see benefits for additional DR in many types of photography.

If the 6D2 is indeed unchanged that is both disappointing and surprising. I had figured that a move to on-chip ADC (and the accompanying DR benefits) would be a given for this camera.



Jul 07, 2017 at 07:45 PM
cgarcia
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p.27 #13 · p.27 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


myaeroplace wrote:
What does that EV difference relate to in real world use? I'm trying to weight the differences between the 6D2 and the 5D4. I know you all mentioned landscape photography in particular would be worse, but what other real world impact does that lower DR have compared to the 5D4?


Many times I moderately apply shadows and highlights recovery to increase the realism (I think that our brain tends to do the same processing against our eyes capture... except just when looking at a printed photo or in a monitor). Usually moderately, otherwise the "HDR look" would betray this intention.

So, when shooting with a sensor having a good DR at ISO 100 (in good light), the shadows will have less noise (increasing the shadows brightness raises the noise). Even the lens vignetting correction may benefit, because is indeed a shadows push.

So if you don't feel the need to raise the shadows in your pictures, this parameter is less important. And shooting in lower DR (e.g. an overcast day) where one can do longer exposures without clipping the highlights (to later apply a negative exposure correction, which leaves room to push the shadows without getting noise) also makes it irrelevant.

People shooting at high ISO (from 800/1600) will neither care at all, because most DSLR cameras have similar DR there.

And anyway, some scenes exceed the DR of any current sensor (e.g. a indoor picture with a window showing a bright outdoor) and would require merging several exposures.

A higher DR may be useful, but to a degree depending on the situation.



Jul 07, 2017 at 08:34 PM
alundeb
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p.27 #14 · p.27 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


cgarcia wrote:
It is 99,999% safe to state that the 6D2 has zero dynamic range improvement at low ISO compared to the 6D.


I could see that already from the first image, 3 stop push:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1497323/24#14098090

Thanks for settling the result, even if it is disappointing




Jul 08, 2017 at 01:39 AM
Isaacheus
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p.27 #15 · p.27 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RobDickinson wrote:
tbh without using the same raw converter I'm not sure I want to comment too much.
Its a really easy and fun camera to shoot landscapes with, the screen makes it really easy


I can understand not wanting to comment without full software support (although feel free to pm me your thoughts.... )

Any other new bits that you are finding good about the camera, along with the screen? Anything that has been missed?



Jul 08, 2017 at 01:54 AM
RobDickinson
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p.27 #16 · p.27 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


It has the 5dsr bulb timer function, the Bluetooth works.. But seems to just be an easy way to boot WiFi.

Af works very well, flippy touch screen is great



Jul 08, 2017 at 02:02 AM
RobDickinson
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p.27 #17 · p.27 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


View finder you can enable 2 way spirit level and a grid, but the grid is an odd layout


Jul 08, 2017 at 02:05 AM
15Bit
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p.27 #18 · p.27 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


I confess to feeling a little disappointment with the DR results - i'd hoped for some improvement over the 6D. Still, the 5D3 is no better and i can't afford a 5D4 so i will just have to live with it.


Jul 08, 2017 at 02:42 AM
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p.27 #19 · p.27 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


So it looks like the new 6D II is a merely old 6D with a bit of more MPs, a new AF system with DPAF bonus and an updated rear LCD touchscreen. Not bad but not worth +800$ they'd like to charge me for upgrading. Now understanding of smaller release price of 6D II is coming. I think I skip this gen. My 6D is good ENOUGH and with only 12k actuations it will serve me the next 5 years
BTW well done, Canon. You know how to surprise your customers.

Rob, your seascape is amazing.
cgarcia, thanks for digits.



Jul 08, 2017 at 02:50 AM
Isaacheus
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p.27 #20 · p.27 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


I'm in the opposite boat, where my 6d has over 200,00 actuations, and is in need of replacing; I was hoping this was going to be a baby 5dmk4 with a tilt screen. From the current looks (and I hope the measurements here aren't correct, and a mistake has been made), it's not really that appealing overall. I've been hitting a number of dynamic range issues on the 6d in situations without the possibilities of blending.

Fingers crossed though. The 5dmk4 isn't really an ideal fit for the price either. Any on have any good news about the performance so far? I hear the af is good?



Jul 08, 2017 at 03:13 AM
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