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Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

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p.26 #1 · p.26 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I posted a 3 stop push, i hate dpp so not really sure but went to town on the dpp->tiff conversion in adobe/acr and it looked good

Undoubtedly it looks good for a Canon sensor pushed +3 EV. A bit of chroma noise is expected and easily eliminated in ACR. Thanks God there's no banding.
So am I interested in night shot test in terms of deep shadows 'pushabilty',

Jul 07, 2017 at 03:57 AM

RobDickinson
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p.26 #2 · p.26 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

I can host a raw if people want?

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:08 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.26 #3 · p.26 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

alundeb wrote:
There is always the 5D III, it costs the same as a 6D II would if it had dual cards....

The 5D III has better AF too.

If I was a pro wedding shooter I would choose the 5D III over the 6D II any day, even if the 6D II had dual cards.

Protest!

- Not me.
Concerning dual cards you are right. I shot an event with 5D III two weeks ago. Not because of dual card slots, but because my rental company did not have a 6D for backup. I would have preffered a second 6D because of its (marginal) better low light IQ and 6Ds more accurate AF. It tops 5D IIIs in reliability and accuracy (imo one doen´t need an AF cluster to shoot an event). I do not see why 6D IIs should work worse than 6D does.

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:33 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.26 #4 · p.26 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I can host a raw if people want?

That would be nice, Rob.
Can lightroom already open it?

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:35 AM

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p.26 #5 · p.26 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I can host a raw if people want?

Sure. Why not?

It's a great opportunity to "touch" IQ by own hands. Thanks in advance.

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:36 AM

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p.26 #6 · p.26 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Ralph Conway wrote:
That would be nice, Rob.
Can lightroom already open it?

Nope. DPP option only is available.

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:37 AM

RobDickinson
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p.26 #7 · p.26 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

www.zarphag.com/6d2/IMG_9106.CR2

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:50 AM

Mashuto
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p.26 #8 · p.26 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
I posted a 3 stop push, i hate dpp so not really sure but went to town on the dpp->tiff conversion in adobe/acr and it looked good

I saw you posted the RAW file, but its hard for me to check it out right now. The few samples you posted look good, but how do you feel it compares to the original 6D in terms of overall image quality?

Jul 07, 2017 at 03:57 PM

RobDickinson
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p.26 #9 · p.26 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

6d Mk2 seascape by Rob Dickinson, on Flickr

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:42 PM

RobDickinson
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p.26 #10 · p.26 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

tbh without using the same raw converter I'm not sure I want to comment too much.
Its a really easy and fun camera to shoot landscapes with, the screen makes it really easy

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:43 PM

Mashuto
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p.26 #11 · p.26 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
tbh without using the same raw converter I'm not sure I want to comment too much.
Its a really easy and fun camera to shoot landscapes with, the screen makes it really easy

Fair enough. I have one on preorder though and IQ/DR are sort of the last unknowns that I really want to hear more about, especially how it compares to the 6D, which is my current body. And still partially debating if the rest of the features are worth it to me if image quality isnt a noticeable leap forward. So like everyone else Im sure, Im just very interested to hear more and right now you seem to be the guy to ask. But I do totally understand where you are coming from without being able to use your usual raw converter.

As far as shooting landscapes, I am actually very much looking forward to the screen. The 60D I had before the 6D had the fold out screen and it is the one thing I really really miss from that camera.

Jul 07, 2017 at 04:56 PM

cgarcia
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p.26 #12 · p.26 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Very, very dissapointing. Very sad news.

Nobody would have expected this: The 6D2 dynamic range has not been upgraded.

The 80D is a better landscape camera.

The 6D2 only achieves about 11.9 EV of dynamic range, once scaled to the standard DXO metrics. This is aproximately 1.7 EV under the 5D4/1DX2/80D performance (to mention a few recent Canon cameras). This has been estimated using the provided RAW file and measuring the masked pixels noise (will will match the DXO review with nearly 99% confidence).

My take: Canon either has made the 6D2 an high ISO beast a la Nikon D5 (which has also a poor low ISO dynamic range) or has decided to keep the dynamic range as a 5D4 feature. Anyway, this will indeed affect a lot of purchasing decisions. I'm personally not worried because my next step after the 6D will likely be the 5DS2 (unless Canon doesn't upgrades its dynamic range, a very unlikely error on that model).

Here follows the technical details:

At the pixel level, the ISO 100 provided image (IMG_9106.CR2) reaches 11.04 EV at 26MP (11.89 normalized to 8MP) compared with my 6D which reached 11.53 EV at 20MP (12.19 EV normalized to 8MP). The measured read noise is 7.53556 DN (compared to about 4.68699 DN in my 6D). The new sensor uses a 512 blackpoint at ISO 100 instead of 2048 (just like the new crowd of sensors). But unfortunately doesn't achieves their dynamic range performance. The measured white point is 16383, which could point to a preproduction camera (my 6D doesn't seem to top there at ISO 100) so the real dynamic range could be even half a bit less.

To reproduce the results (or to test other pictures or another cameras):

1) Download the dcraw tool (https://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/) and run:

$ dcraw -E -4 -j -t 0 -s all IMG_9106.CR2

2) Open the generated PGM file with a image editor and visually determine the area of the masked pixels at the top and the left. For a given sensor it is the same for all the pictures (for the 6D2: 120 pixels at the left and 44 at the top).

3) Download the hraw tool (https://github.com/lightful/hraw, a Linux PC is still required) and run:

$ hraw analyze -i IMG_9106_0.pgm -m 120 44 -c G

Which will output (using a safe crop of the left masked pixels):

ReadNoise=7.53556 [email protected]=11.0403 [email protected]=11.8956 file { IMG_9106_0.pgm }
image { mean=2718.27 min=405 max=16383 } left mask { mean=512.686 min=479 max=550 crop=56x4172+2+48 }

Edited on Jul 07, 2017 at 05:52 PM · View previous versions

Jul 07, 2017 at 05:35 PM

RobDickinson
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p.26 #13 · p.26 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

hm that sux, not sure that image is clipped both ends but not sure you need that.
can provide more raws if it helps?

Jul 07, 2017 at 05:38 PM

RobDickinson
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p.26 #14 · p.26 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

I'm assuming this is a production model firmware 1.0.2 but I dont know for sure

Jul 07, 2017 at 05:39 PM

myaeroplace
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p.26 #15 · p.26 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

So this has less DR than the original 6D? Seriously?

cgarcia wrote:
Very, very dissapointing. Very sad news.

Nobody would have expected this: The 6D2 dynamic range has not been upgraded.

The 80D is a better landscape camera.

The 6D2 only achieves about 11.9 EV of dynamic range, once scaled to the standard DXO metrics. This is aproximately 1.7 EV under the 5D4/1DX2/80D performance (to mention a few recent Canon cameras). This has been estimated using the provided RAW file and measuring the masked pixels noise (will will match the DXO review with nearly 99% confidence).

My take: Canon either has made the 6D2 an high ISO beast a la Nikon D5 (which has also a...Show more →

Jul 07, 2017 at 05:52 PM

Mashuto
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p.26 #16 · p.26 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

Well... thats unbelievably disappointing. Hopefully we can get some more confirmation. But if that truly is the case, I don't think I can justify paying full price for this camera as an upgrade over the 6D. The features it has are nice, but nothing I cant live without. Without being all doom and gloom and immediately jumping to the "I'm definitely switching to sony!" bandwagon, its looking like this might be a generation I skip entirely or wait until prices are significantly lower. I would potentially consider the 5D4, but its missing one big feature I would want (the screen) and just has so many extra things that I just dont want to pay for... and would rather not spend so much on a body.

Oh well. Just hoping to get more confirmation one way or another before I decide if I want to keep my preorder or not.

Jul 07, 2017 at 06:01 PM

jorkata
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p.26 #17 · p.26 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

cgarcia wrote:
Nobody would have expected this: The 6D2 dynamic range has not been upgraded.

Thanks for your effort.

This is so disappointing to hear

.
The lack of 4K and a second card slot are non-issues for me.
But the lack of DR is quite literally a deal breaker.
What was Canon thinking

Jul 07, 2017 at 06:08 PM

cgarcia
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p.26 #18 · p.26 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

RobDickinson wrote:
hm that sux, not sure that image is clipped both ends but not sure you need that.
can provide more raws if it helps?

Yes, clipping is useful to determine the white point. Numerically it seems 16383, which is the maximum possible 14-bit value (a bit rare at ISO 100).

Anyway slight variations on the white point doesn't affect a lot the measured dynamic range, e.g.:

For 16363 -> LOG2((16383-512)/7.4878) = 11.04 EV at 26MP
For 15360 -> LOG2((15360-512)/7.4878) = 10.95 EV at 26MP

Being 512 the black point and 7.4878 the read noise (to measure it we don't need a dark photo with the lens cap on because the raw files internally provide the black pixels).

However, a ISO series of photos (one at each ISO level) would be useful to measure the high ISO performance. In case it is not stellar, we would assume that Canon has crippled the 6D2 to further differentiate it from the 5D4.

Edited to punctualize:

I previusly mentioned a read noise of 7.53556, which was referred to both green channels combined.
The 7.4878 is a green channel alone (the other green gets 7.58229, red is 7.52778 and blue 7.49653).
So all channels behave nearly the same (only the 5D4 was a bit odd on this matter).

Jul 07, 2017 at 06:19 PM

myaeroplace
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p.26 #19 · p.26 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

What does this test suggest about how the sensor compares to the original 6D? I'm asking because now I'm considering changing my preorder and just getting a Mk4 if this new body won't offer any improved sensor performance over the original 6D.

Edited on Jul 07, 2017 at 06:34 PM · View previous versions

Jul 07, 2017 at 06:31 PM

RobDickinson
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p.26 #20 · p.26 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

one from this morning, whites clipped, blacks at about 3 I think

www.zarphag.com/6d2/IMG_9210.CR2

Jul 07, 2017 at 06:34 PM

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