Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              23      
24
       25              73       74       end
  

Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

  
 
CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #1 · p.24 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


bootster wrote:
I spoke with a DeWalt salesman when the yellow DeWalt line of tools hit the market. He said that originally the prices were a tad below what the other comparable tools were, and they sat on the shelves. They increased the prices by 15% across the board, same tools, and what do you know, they sold like hotcakes.

There's a lot of things that go into pricing that count out some of the logic that people apply to some of these items. I'm not saying that is the case here, I just know that the way prices are adjusted play into
...Show more

Haha, I like that story. It reminds me of something I learned in University in my Marketing classes. There are lots of clothing and other similar products often sold at department stores that sold much better when the prices were *raised* due to perceived quality/value that did not exist in the first place. There are a huge number of customers who believe more expensive = better regardless of the facts, and that would carry over into any number of products to varying degrees.



Jul 05, 2017 at 10:43 AM
Ernie Aubert
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #2 · p.24 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


CanadaMark wrote:
... There are a huge number of customers who believe more expensive = better regardless of the facts, and that would carry over into any number of products to varying degrees.


Reminds me of a phenomenon I've observed for decades: The car or motorcycle brand that wins a major race sells well as a result; regardless of the fact that competitors' models finished within seconds. Talkin' "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday."

And a somewhat related belief: Faster, by definition, equals more fun to drive or ride.



Jul 05, 2017 at 11:03 AM
Red Marx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #3 · p.24 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


CanadaMark wrote:
Can you post your sales data source please, corresponding to price? Your assertion is unfounded without objective backup data. It's a 3 year old body with a replacement imminent which is why it's been discounted as of late. The natural cycle for almost any product is to price high at the start for early adopters, and slowly lower it or offer incentives over the rest of the cycle, peaking near end of life.

What matters is what people can buy on the day that they are going to buy something. If a 3 year old camera is still competitive, or even
...Show more

I'm not sure how things work over there on the dark side, but on occasion Canon has erred with introductory MSRP followed by a correction to a more appropriate price.
1. The EF 24-70 f/4 IS was USD $1400 give or take at introduction. It didn't take long for the price to permanently drop by about $400. Not a rebate, not incentive, an actual MSRP reduction.

2. EF 35mm f/2 IS was introduced around USD $850. Not long afterward its MSRP, dropped about $250.

I do not believe, though I don't have sales figures to reference, that these reductions were due to the typical price decline during a typical product cycle.



Jul 05, 2017 at 11:53 AM
Red Marx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #4 · p.24 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II




Ubtree wrote:
Thank you for drawing my attention to the 80D. Yes, the zone configurations are identical. I have now edited my original comments accordingly.

No, that wasn't my intention. I was referring to the viewfinder of the 6D MkII not displaying which WB mode has been selected. I have now amended my original to make this more clear.

Thank you for pointing that out. For some reason, Canon omitted the x-sync speed from the detailed 6D's specification sheet, but I have now added it to my summary.

And thank you for your kind words!



Thank you for amending your earlier post. I think that your post will be particularly helpful and informative for anyone considering buying a 6D Mark II. Thank you again for compiling such a reference.

Another benefit to the significantly more advanced exposure metering system in the 5D Mark IV is much improved subject-tracking (OVF, not Live View) compared to the 80D and 6D Mark II. Not that the latter two are renowned for OVF subject-tracking. 😉

Thank you for your helpful contribution to this thread.



Jul 05, 2017 at 12:06 PM
Red Marx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #5 · p.24 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II




George Orwell wrote:
/snip
And my Ford would be much much better with a V-12 engine.

If you want 4K, then PAY FOR IT.


Everything is better with a V-12. 😀😀😀



Jul 05, 2017 at 12:11 PM
ShotByTom
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #6 · p.24 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


level1photog wrote:
If I didn't shoot weddings, I would buy this one as my primary camera. I don't do video so the features on my 5D IV is useless to me. It has a good feature sets that's good enough for most people and including professionals who do everything except weddings.


Why isn't this suitable for weddings? It's low light focusing is very good for weddings. I would prefer dual cards and a higher sync speed, but I think this is a great camera for weddings, especially considering it's price.



Jul 05, 2017 at 01:24 PM
CanadaMark
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #7 · p.24 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


ShotByTom wrote:
Why isn't this suitable for weddings? It's low light focusing is very good for weddings. I would prefer dual cards and a higher sync speed, but I think this is a great camera for weddings, especially considering it's price.


Shooting a wedding without a backup card slot is extremely risky for a once in a lifetime event that you're being paid thousands of dollars to ensure the quality of. Most of the time you would be fine, but if anything happened it could be a complete disaster for both you and the client, possibly even opening yourself up to a law suit. I would never risk something like that on a paid shoot, IMHO it would be very irresponsible.

Also you drop to -2.0 EV center point focus and even lower on exterior points when using servo AF, which makes it less good for low light unless you and the target are stationary. Probably still fine for most scenarios though. AF point coverage is also even smaller than the original 6D which may be an issue when shooting in portrait orientation.

Just my $0.02 anyway. IMHO the 5D4 is a much better all round wedding camera, and the cost difference would not be an issue if that is your main occupation.



Jul 05, 2017 at 02:52 PM
15Bit
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #8 · p.24 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


I would agree with Mark on this. If you are paid to record non-repeatable events then you should go the extra mile to ensure that you do it. A wedding cannot be repeated, and so while the 6D2 is more than technically capable of getting pictures as good as those taken with a 5D4 or 1DXII, and with a similarly high keeper rate, the associated risk of not having a second memory card is a serious issue.

Of course, it would make an excellent camera to give to an assistant whilst the primary photographer is using a 5D4.



Jul 05, 2017 at 03:08 PM
Ralph Conway
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #9 · p.24 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


This is why I rent a 5D MK IV, when I have to shoot an event. I never had a card failure up to today with none of my cameras. But if there would be one it would be a desaster for me AND my clients.

Conny



Jul 05, 2017 at 04:23 PM
Red Marx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #10 · p.24 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


I don't shoot weddings. If I did shoot weddings I would expect to generate income. Why would one shoot weddings with an entry-level FF camera? Unless it's your very first paid wedding you should have the capital to by a camera with dual card slots.
Regarding this center-point sensitivity issue, when was this -3EV, which doesn't count in servo, -2EV, which does count in servo, specification equalled or surpassed by any other camera? Did the D4S have effective -3EV focussing on AF-C? D810? 1D Mark III? 5D Mark II? How about -2EV?
I know focus assist mechanisms can be annoying at the least, but with one I can focus in darkness. Then again, I don't shoot weddings.



Jul 05, 2017 at 04:31 PM
ShotByTom
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #11 · p.24 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


15Bit wrote:
I would agree with Mark on this. If you are paid to record non-repeatable events then you should go the extra mile to ensure that you do it. A wedding cannot be repeated, and so while the 6D2 is more than technically capable of getting pictures as good as those taken with a 5D4 or 1DXII, and with a similarly high keeper rate, the associated risk of not having a second memory card is a serious issue.

Of course, it would make an excellent camera to give to an assistant whilst the primary photographer is using a 5D4.


In 17 years of shooting digital, I have never had a memory card fail while shooting and have never known anyone who has. In fact, I have only had one memory card become un-readable. I know, you'll say it happens all the time...but, in reality, it doesn't. We have 285 cameras in operation with our city agencies and have thousands of SD and CF cards in use, and we have millions of images stored. I don't know of any memory cards that simply stopped working while shooting. We've had some that were damaged, but not fail.

However, for weddings, If a memory card does fail, I would know after a few shots simply by checking images on the camera, which I do regularly. If it fails, I would simply use the other 6D that is hanging on my neck.

Not everyone makes $10,000 for shooting a wedding, many of us use less expensive equipment to manage costs and profits.

It is my opinion that I prefer the image quality and ISO performance of the 6D over the 5D II (current cameras at the time I moved to 6Ds.). So I have a plan in place to help minimize loss if lightning does strike.





Jul 05, 2017 at 05:33 PM
Ralph Conway
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #12 · p.24 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


15 years in my case. Yes, never. I had cameras, which stopped to work. That is why I carry a backup body with me. But in cases I rent a 2-card body depending on the event. Just to feel better.

5D II => 6D - same reason. I compared IQ and high ISO AF with 5D III. 6D was better at half the price. I lost the joystick and weight and won image quality, AF accuracy and a more silent silent mode.

"ShotByTom" is absolute right. Earning your income (or part of it) does not mean, you earn plenty of money automatically. I have to look how much money I can invest for what I need to make profit t the end of a year.

I would bet in one year one will get 2 6D II´s for the price of one 5D IV. Like it is with 6D today. And of course I would prefere to purchase two 6D IIs with better IQ instead of one 5D IV just because it has the joystick that I would like to have. All other features are NOT NEEDED by me.

Conny



Jul 05, 2017 at 06:08 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.24 #13 · p.24 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Red Marx wrote:
I don't shoot weddings. If I did shoot weddings I would expect to generate income. Why would one shoot weddings with an entry-level FF camera? Unless it's your very first paid wedding you should have the capital to by a camera with dual card slots.
Regarding this center-point sensitivity issue, when was this -3EV, which doesn't count in servo, -2EV, which does count in servo, specification equalled or surpassed by any other camera? Did the D4S have effective -3EV focussing on AF-C? D810? 1D Mark III? 5D Mark II? How about -2EV?
I know focus assist mechanisms can be annoying
...Show more

And if one is shooting weddings for income ... yup, they probably should choose a dual card body, as well as have a second camera for backup gear.

Granted, there will always be those (been there, done that) who will tackle things with lesser tools, and still manage to pull it off just fine. But, if you're gonna stake your livelihood on it ... probably a bit more sage to go with a different tool. In addition to the dual card issue ... I'd want the 1/250 sync speed for certain with wedding work. It's been 20+ years (film era) since I shot weddings. That said .. I'm sure there are / will be plenty of folks shooting events with a single card that never get "bit" by it.

Although, that kinda makes me wonder how we ever got by with just one roll of film in the camera ... oh yeah, we shot multiple rolls of film across multiple bodies.



Jul 05, 2017 at 06:22 PM
Red Marx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #14 · p.24 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II



RustyBug wrote:
And if one is shooting weddings for income ... yup, they probably should choose a dual card body, as well as have a second camera for backup gear.

Granted, there will always be those (been there, done that) who will tackle things with lesser tools, and still manage to pull it off just fine. But, if you're gonna stake your livelihood on it ... probably a bit more sage to go with a different tool. In addition to the dual card issue ... I'd want the 1/250 sync speed for certain with wedding work. It's been 20+ years (film era)
...Show more

+1 for almost everything you wrote.
The differences:
I never shot film so I have no experience. Lol.
I want 1/250th x-sync as well, but it brings up a question in my mind. How is -3EV focusing a limitation (-2EV in servo so I've heard) for weddings? Are these "available-light only" weddings? I don't frequent the wedding forum on FM, but I do a lot of reading in regards to strobes/flash. It seems from the strobe/flash reading that most of the participants are wedding & portrait photographers. Modeling lights? AF assist on the hotshot trigger? AF assist light on the camera? (Please not the strobe thing that Canon does though, that is not a solution IMO.) Sometimes I think there is more trolling on here than many of us would like.
Oh, I'm one of the 1/8000th max SS requesters. I do have 72mm ND filters for my 85L II, but it's just easier to have one more stop of SS for me. If I knew of a technical reason for the minor limitations on this camera I wouldn't complain. It seems like it's protectionism on Canon's part though. I guess every major camera company is doing it. If not to protect higher-line models, then to protect the same manufacturer's cinema line. (Sony, Canon, Fuji. . . not Nikon obviously.)
All will be well with the 6D Mark II. Limitations will be worked around successfully. 😊

Edited on Jul 05, 2017 at 10:04 PM · View previous versions



Jul 05, 2017 at 07:37 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.24 #15 · p.24 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


I agree that there are some things that make you go

I can't pretend to know the exact answers for their rationale(s). But, it also strikes me that not only are those "limitations" ... protecting (if folks like to think of it that way) ... Canon, but to a certain degree, they are also "protecting" the Canon consumer who has spent the $$$ for the "up-featured" model(s).

I'm still of the opinion that manufacturing does as manufacturing does ... but, I do believe that there is much more behind the curtain than cyber-forum rants are capable of actually knowing. In fact, it is probably that very ignorance (literal word @ not-knowing ... i.e. not the same as stupid), that fuels folks to perpetually hazard contemptuous regard for manufacturers.

The thing is, there are decisions made regarding mechanics and electronics and the overall reliability of a system that doesn't always reflect "max performance", yet it can yield better reliability for a given build / price. That's something that folks rarely give much credence to ... i.e. it doesn't really show up on a spec sheet.

One thing I am additionally surprised by though is the battery / shot life projections of the 6D2. It seems that Canon has caught up with Nikon on the 6D2.



Jul 05, 2017 at 07:59 PM
Red Marx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #16 · p.24 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II




RustyBug wrote:
I agree that there are some things that make you go

I can't pretend to know the exact answers for their rationale(s). But, it also strikes me that not only are those "limitations" ... protecting (if folks like to think of it that way) ... Canon, but to a certain degree, they are also "protecting" the Canon consumer who has spent the $$$ for the "up-featured" model(s).

I'm still of the opinion that manufacturing does as manufacturing does ... but, I do believe that there is much more behind the curtain than cyber-forum rants are capable of actually knowing. In fact,
...Show more

I've been going for a while now. ;-)

Thank you for the new perspective on Canon possibly "protecting" the investments of the higher-and models.

IF their only reason for 1/4000th, 1/180th, 98% coverage, smaller buffer, no dual-pixel raw,(not to be conflated with dual-pixel auto-focus) (also not exactly a mature technology either this DP raw) 80D AF system including the metering and point-spread is to protect the 5D Mark IV, then that goal IMO was accomplished via the single SD slot for all types of shooters minus action or wildlife. (The AF system would be the other show-stopper for action/wildlife I would think.)

Regardless, I do appreciate many of the little features which can make many things easier or now possible. NFC. GPS that might be more energy efficient. Wi-Fi. Bluetooth capability plus Bluetooth remote. (Much improved from the RC-6 IR remote.)
AWB-W could be handy if I have to shoot in .jpg. (Never needed to do so, but one never knows.) More pixels. LCD overlay info. (I'm already used to the black boxes, but now I'll get much more, or less, should I be so inclined, information in the viewfinder.) F8 focus points. Dual-cross center point. Any cross other than center! Intervalometer. Far easier than the wired timer remote. Indicated, but not completely confirmed by me, motor-driven mirror. Possible dual-axis level? Hopefully lower native ISO. (a la 80D or better) Hopefully slightly cleaner high ISO. Greater low ISO dynamic range. As you mentioned, better battery performance with the same battery. Impressive feat now that I think about it. (Have lots of LP-E6s and one LP-E6N.)
Anti-flicker! Articulating display! Two more FPS! (Coming from four and a half frames per second this is significant to me.)

This 6D Mark II will be replacing my 6D. 😊



Jul 05, 2017 at 11:11 PM
Red Marx
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #17 · p.24 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II



matejphoto wrote:
As a father of two young kids I wonder about this as well, but I think we have mostly reached a plateau in image quality. 15 years ago was 2002 and digital was still in infancy. It was time before affordable DSLRs.
The quality of DLSR went up a lot in those days. I went from 10D-->20D-->40D-->5dm2 in 5 years (2003-2008). Well, I still have the 5Dm2 as my only full frame. This 6dm2 might be the second one.
In my opinion for stills if you happen to get the shot (e.g. you nailed exposure, focus,...) then output from 5Dm2 is sufficient
...Show more
I recognize your points and mostly agree with them.
I still recommend maximizing source/master files/tracks whenever possible (even if not particularly feasible.)
A couple of examples of foresight:
The 1992 Olympics were broadcast in HDTV. Not that it meant anything in the western hemisphere at the time.
Genesis (a musical group) recorded their Invisible Touch tour in HD as well in 1987/1988. That also didn't mean much at the time, but now. . .
CD-A (Red Book) 16-bit 44.1KHz was antiquated at introduction. I would mention how far audio has come since then, but much to my chagrin MP3s and iPods set audio back decades since then. (Hearing, like seeing, takes practice and training for most humans.) The good news is that artists have been recording at 24-bit 96KHz for over a quarter-century. I don't recall when 192KHz became the studio standard but it has been for many years. Future generations may appreciate this philosophy.

Again, I do see and respect your points. I also believe that most people do not share my opinion.

Cheers



Jul 05, 2017 at 11:38 PM
15Bit
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #18 · p.24 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


ShotByTom wrote:
In 17 years of shooting digital, I have never had a memory card fail while shooting and have never known anyone who has.

I also never have, though i am not exactly a high volume shooter. I did once get a corrupted RAW. After running some tests on the card i couldn't find anything wrong, and i am still using that card today without any further troubles.

I agree that the chances are extremely low, but for everything there is a risk-consequence balance and for a small number of things the consequence side is very heavy in my view. Similarly, in 21 years of working in research labs I have not experienced an incident that could have seriously injured me. I still put on my safety glasses and critically assess my experiments before doing them though....



Jul 06, 2017 at 12:52 AM
alundeb
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #19 · p.24 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


In the worst card failure case I have heard about, that ended with the photographer having to end his business, the card failure was not the only thing that went wrong. Something else happened so that he had to shoot the entire wedding with one camera.

There are other ways to safeguard an event shoot. In any case, I would never shoot a wedding using only one camera, like only having the second camera in the bag for backup. I would use both cameras in all the important situations. If I had to use a camera with only one card slot, I would be using more than one card and rotate them.

The risk is then reduced to the risk of missing one or a few key shots. But now that dual cards is available in the 5D series, I would not buy a 6D II for professional regular use as a primary wedding camera.



Jul 06, 2017 at 01:32 AM
Mikehit
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.24 #20 · p.24 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


alundeb wrote:
In the worst card failure case I have heard about, that ended with the photographer having to end his business, the card failure was not the only thing that went wrong. Something else happened so that he had to shoot the entire wedding with one camera.


And that's the thing - business crises are often multiple factors. And in 'the case you heard about', it sounds as if card failure was the only thing that happened the business may well have survived.



alundeb wrote:
The risk is then reduced to the risk of missing one or a few key shots. But now that dual cards is available in the 5D series, I would not buy a 6D II for professional regular use as a primary wedding camera.


And that is where discussions like this get tortuous and heated because different people look on it as a primary camera (it is critical) or a second camera (no so bad) or occasional (don't really care) and don't really state the viewpoint they are looking at it.

Would a professional rely on a 6D2 as a 'primary camera'? I doubt it because the 5DIII/5DIV are probably beter overall cameras anyway and I doubt that 'primary wedding camera' is even the market at which the camera is aimed. Canon do have market segmentation in exactly the same way manufacturers of cars, photocopiers and washing machines do.
You want a photocopier that simply does 12 pages per minute instead of 8? You can buy it but you also have to pay for a load of other functions you probably don't need. That's how the market works. Canon do the same thing in that they bundle up sets of functionality for a what they see as the market - and one thing Canon can be admired for is the quality of their market research to understand the market as a whole and building to a price.



Jul 06, 2017 at 03:22 AM
1       2       3              23      
24
       25              73       74       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              23      
24
       25              73       74       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.