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Archive 2017 · Looking for a compact camera.

BSPhotog
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Looking for a compact camera.

I'm a wedding photographer and some times I just don't want to be the guy walking around with a D800 when I'm not working. I've had a few different compact cameras to use here and there, but they have all come up short and left be loathing them after a while. I've had the following:

Pentax MX1 - Fun size, nice to handle, images are bleh.
Fuji X100s - Had it for a year, enjoyed using it but the AF was the achilles heel for me as my kid has gotten older.
Olympus OM-D EM-10 + 20mm f/1.7 Panasonic lens - This is my current "pocket" camera. It is okay. Wifi is nice, though the range is poor. Battery life is okay, size is okay, AF is okay. Files are almost okay-ish. I've traveled with it a few times and it is easy enough, but it generally isn't the camera I reach for. Mother's Day weekend, I grabbed a D800 and 35 f/2 to take to the zoo (big camera, little lens) as a compromise because I really just didn't want to take the OM-D.

It is possible that I'll never be happy with a small camera, but I'm just looking for suggestions for something that is pocketable-ish and can perform fairly well without breaking the bank. RX1r is probably the answer, but the MkII needs to come down in price quite a bit before I'll go down that road. I like the idea of a fixed lens and somewhere between 28 and 50mm FOV.

Any suggestions? There's a bunch of cool little cameras out there and probably some that aren't even on my radar.

Thanks!

May 19, 2017 at 09:48 AM

Sener
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Looking for a compact camera.

Canon M-something and 22mm f2?

May 19, 2017 at 03:19 PM

darrellc
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Looking for a compact camera.

Ricoh GR

May 19, 2017 at 03:58 PM

timde
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Looking for a compact camera.

Olympus PEN (small as RX1), Fuji x100f (faster AF now?) are the only alternatives I know of that might have good AF performance and are not excessively expensive.

The Ricoh GR and Sigma DP2 are about all thats left ... my experience with the GR was that the AF was lacking, and I guess the DP2 is no better.

An iPhone with the Zeiss ExoLens might be the best option ....

May 19, 2017 at 04:11 PM

Peire
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Looking for a compact camera.

Sigmas : 19/2.8,30/2.8,60/2.8 coupled with any Sony NEX or A series make for a small,lightweight combo with excellent IQ.

May 20, 2017 at 03:48 AM

wolfloid
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Looking for a compact camera.

Yes, that rx1rII is very expensive. A thousand less would make it much more attractive to try out. I'm also used to the X100S, a fiddly, gadgety little thing, with a very irritating UI where things like flash activation is in a menu instead of on the camera, and worse still it is impossible to set it up for back-button focus (on an enthusiast camera for goodness sake).

Though it may have better IQ and faster AF, I doubt whether the X100F has addressed all these shortcomings. So far most reviews have been written by people who either gush, because they are on FUji's payroll, or by those who really don't put much effort into really thinking through how it would be used by a range of photographers. DPR review fails on this second count.

May 20, 2017 at 08:31 AM

aeonsim
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Looking for a compact camera.

Sony A5100/A6000/A6300 depending on the features you want with one of the following:
Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS
Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F2.8
Sigma 19mm F2.8
Sigma 30mm F2.8

Or if your not so worried about the sharpest lens but want a tiny size:

Sony E-mount 16mm F2.8
Sony E-mount 20mm F2.8

If you just want tiny then:
Sony A5100 + Sony 16 or 20mm F2.8

If small and view finder:
Sony A6000 + Sony 16 or 20mm F2.8

If small and sharp
Sony A6000/A6300 + Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F2.8

May 20, 2017 at 09:05 AM

wolfloid
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Looking for a compact camera.

The problem with the Sonys above is that that are also fiddly and gadgety, and most lenses, 35/1.8 excepted, are either slow or not very good, or both. Even the 35/1.8 is only an f2.4 equivalent. If you want 35mm field of view, then the 24/1.8, though good is very large.

Fuji has got the X100 series direct dials ergonomics right, but they have a way to go yet for things like BBF and direct flash access, and it is still annoyingly too easy to press the wrong buttons when putting it in and out of a bag. The Sonys are still a way behind on direct dials (although they do have BBF if you want it).

May 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM

wolfloid
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Looking for a compact camera.

A good taster review for the Fuji X100F is here:http://thephotofundamentalist.com/fujifilm/fujifilm-x100f-review-detailed-image-samples/]X100F[/url]

May 20, 2017 at 03:16 PM

BSPhotog
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Looking for a compact camera.

Sener wrote:
Canon M-something and 22mm f2?

I really wish Nikon would build a mirrorless something like this. If they would even just build a pancake lens with AF, I'd be happy with a DX DSLR probably...maybe...

Hadn't thought about the Canon M series, but perhaps I'll have to keep an eye on their used price.
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darrellc wrote:
Ricoh GR

I've considered the Ricoh, it might actually be one of the better choices if I can find the right deal on a GR II. Coolpix A is really similarly spec'd as well.

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timde wrote:
Olympus PEN (small as RX1), Fuji x100f (faster AF now?) are the only alternatives I know of that might have good AF performance and are not excessively expensive.

The Ricoh GR and Sigma DP2 are about all thats left ... my experience with the GR was that the AF was lacking, and I guess the DP2 is no better.

An iPhone with the Zeiss ExoLens might be the best option ....

I'm not certain that I would gain anything with a PEN series Olympus over my OM-D EM-10 that I have right now, aside from minor cosmetic differences and a small difference in size.

I flirted with the idea of a Sigma Merrill or Quattro DP-1/2/3, but even the favorable reviews make it look almost unusable in most circumstances. That said, I'd probably jump on a Quattro if it was <$400 and embrace the constraints as a creative exercise.

iPhone might be the real solution perhaps, though my iPhone 5c isn't probably up to the task lol.

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Peire wrote:
Sigmas : 19/2.8,30/2.8,60/2.8 coupled with any Sony NEX or A series make for a small,lightweight combo with excellent IQ.

I think I prefer the idea of a fixed lens system, largely because it can be designed more efficiently for space savings and it also will keep me from investing in a different lens system.
Then again, with Sony refreshing their APS-C models on a pretty regular basis, there will probably be some deals on gently used late-model bodies.

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wolfloid wrote:
The problem with the Sonys above is that that are also fiddly and gadgety, and most lenses, 35/1.8 excepted, are either slow or not very good, or both. Even the 35/1.8 is only an f2.4 equivalent. If you want 35mm field of view, then the 24/1.8, though good is very large.

Fuji has got the X100 series direct dials ergonomics right, but they have a way to go yet for things like BBF and direct flash access, and it is still annoyingly too easy to press the wrong buttons when putting it in and out of a bag. The Sonys are...Show more →

Yup, agree on the ergonomics. I'm not ashamed to say that at least some of my enjoyment/appreciation for the X100s came from the way it looks/feels in my hand. It was well made, took the knocks that come from regular use and carrying, and performed

On the whole, the segment of higher performing compact cameras is an interesting one. Thought there are a wide range of contenders, nothing sticks out as the clear "right" choice. :-/

May 22, 2017 at 02:05 PM

wolfloid
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Looking for a compact camera.

nothing sticks out as the clear "right" choice. :-/

Yes, I agree, which is a real pity, since it can't be hard to really think things through and get this right - there are enough 'almosts' out there. I think this could be a very profitable opening for a company willing to work with interested photographers and spend the time to achieve something that most would be very happy with.

I see a number of possibilities:
a) Fuji goes the last mile and tidies up the ergonomics of the X100F.
b) someone goes for the manual version and makes a small EVF body specifically for M lenses (Leica Q-like). Obviously the focus aids (EVF) would have to be very clear, fast and intuitive. IBIS would also be a welcome addition.
c) Nikon or Canon take on the task and develop something SMALL - a high quality camera with their uncrippled, best ergonomics and SMALL high quality lenses to match, or even one very fine lens (think RX1rII, but much better ergonomics and cheaper).

It's not impossible, and Nikon needs a winner. Camera manufacturers just need to heed the feedback of a certain type of photographer.

May 23, 2017 at 04:08 AM

darrellc
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Looking for a compact camera.

A few words in praise of the GR:

I like the GR as it is truly pocketable and gives up little in IQ (the glass is certainly one of the best 28's I've shot with). GR is great ergonomically, can be operated one hand (which makes it easier to just grab and snap), custom settings are super useful and very powerful for setting up the camera for several use cases and the snap focus feature is brilliant and goes a long ways toward mitigating the lackluster AF performance by making zone focusing really easy to execute and change settings or set up a couple of custom settings with different zone focusing parameters.

I have had and liked using the X100 series, m4/3, RX100 (which aren't really pocketable to me like the GR, especially the later thicker heavier versions), but then you are in kind of a no-man's land, as look at the size and weight of an A7x body and the FE 35/2.8. Not really that much bigger!

Here's size comparison of Ricoh GR, X100F, A7s/FE35f2.8 and OM-10/17f1.8: http://camerasize.com/compact/#705,633.383,548.394,454,ha,t

May 23, 2017 at 09:34 AM

rw11
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Looking for a compact camera.

I'm not clear on the exact problem with the OM-D. It sounds like a sort of ergonomic gestalt...

If it is the lenses, then try the Leica lenses that come from the joint venture with Panasonic.

If not the lenses, then maybe try the newest SLR looking Panasonic body.

May 23, 2017 at 10:03 AM

timde
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Looking for a compact camera.

I too would like a higher performing compact camera ... where the AF simply worked instantly. If I was taking a photo of an apple, the apple is in focus, if I was taking a photo of a fast moving car, the car is in focus. Many (all?) of the cameras mentioned here feature a whole collection of modes and features to compensate for the fact that the AF does not work well enough. The GR, as good as it is, really does suffer in this area - I have a lot of photos of apples and cars where the background is in perfect focus

Do I understand correctly that the Sony A6500/A9 has a good AF system? Then I guess/hope that the next generation of Rx1 will offer the same AF performance. And perhaps the larger A9 battery too!

Otherwise, we wait ... this market has be destroyed by the smart phone, I don't expect much new to occur outside of what already exists, and their subsequent iterations.

May 23, 2017 at 10:03 AM

BSPhotog
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Looking for a compact camera.

darrellc wrote:
A few words in praise of the GR:

I like the GR as it is truly pocketable and gives up little in IQ (the glass is certainly one of the best 28's I've shot with). GR is great ergonomically, can be operated one hand (which makes it easier to just grab and snap), custom settings are super useful and very powerful for setting up the camera for several use cases and the snap focus feature is brilliant and goes a long ways toward mitigating the lackluster AF performance by making zone focusing really easy to execute and change settings or set...Show more →

Holy crap, can't believe how close the A7 is to the EM-10! This definitely illustrates the size difference well and is a nod in the direction of the GR for portability. That said, the GR, Coolpix A, and X70 are really well matched in almost all regards. Hmmm

http://camerasize.com/compact/#454,445,651,705,638,633.30,ha,t

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rw11 wrote:
I'm not clear on the exact problem with the OM-D. It sounds like a sort of ergonomic gestalt...

If it is the lenses, then try the Leica lenses that come from the joint venture with Panasonic.

If not the lenses, then maybe try the newest SLR looking Panasonic body.

My problem with the OM-D is more the files than the handling. I think the 20mm f/1.7 is a pretty good lens, EVF is alright, and it is an alright camera. I just don't love using it and I'm generally not crazy about the files (DR in particular).

May 23, 2017 at 01:20 PM

rstoddard11
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Looking for a compact camera.

One more vote for the Ricoh GR. I rented one to use on a trip to Europe last week, and my full frame stayed locked in my bag in the cities. The "snap function" makes this one a great snapshot camera with APS-C sized sensor for walking around. I just set the focus to 6-8 feet, stopped down to f5.6 and just shot away. My main problem with "point and shoots" is the focus hunting that occurs. This one eliminated that problem.

May 23, 2017 at 01:30 PM

darrellc
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Looking for a compact camera.

I had the Coolpix A but sold shortly afterwards and upgraded to the GR II. The Coolpix sold me on the form factor, but I found usability and some aspects of performance lacking - GR II is a much better camera in my opinion.

I shoot with Fuji (X-T2, X-Pro 2) but wouldn't probably wouldn't buy the X-70.

The thinner and flatter the better for phones or cameras or wallets or anything that goes in your pocket. GR wins on that measure. And while it sounds minor, having to remove and bother with a lens cap is enough friction that I'd use the X70 less than the GR. The GR is like a mobile phone, you just pull out of a shirt or pants pocket with one hand, hit a button and you are shooting!

May 23, 2017 at 01:34 PM

mortyb
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Looking for a compact camera.

Agree with what has been said about the GR. It's a really good camera, ergonomically brilliant, and it's truly pocketable. I had the Coolpix A for a while. They are very similar. IMO the GR has better ergos, but I think the Coolpix A has slighty more pop to its colors and also a better bokeh close distance @ 2.8. But they are 98 % similar.

Personally, if I were to move up in size from GR / Coolpix A, any mirrorless would work about the same, as differences in size and weight between them, are pretty small IMO. But they wouldn't be truly pocketable. If you still have the E-M10, the Panasonic Leica 25/1.4 is a great lens with a very nice rendering IMO.

May 23, 2017 at 04:05 PM

BSPhotog
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Looking for a compact camera.

mortyb wrote:
Agree with what has been said about the GR. It's a really good camera, ergonomically brilliant, and it's truly pocketable. I had the Coolpix A for a while. They are very similar. IMO the GR has better ergos, but I think the Coolpix A has slighty more pop to its colors and also a better bokeh close distance @ 2.8. But they are 98 % similar.

Personally, if I were to move up in size from GR / Coolpix A, any mirrorless would work about the same, as differences in size and weight between them, are pretty small IMO. But they...Show more →

The GR II is making a lot of sense, but then you've got me thinking about the 25 f/1.4. I picked up a Sigma 50 Art and I've been using it profusely since January. It has restored my faith in 50mm FOV. There is a 25 f/1.4 on the buy/sell board right now for $325....

May 23, 2017 at 09:34 PM

millsart
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Looking for a compact camera.

Why not a RX100 ?

Pocketable, tilt screen, quite usable pop-up EVF, fast AF and frame rates, 4k video, high speed video, fast lens with a useful 24-70 equiv, quite good image quality for its size

May 23, 2017 at 10:11 PM

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