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Archive 2017 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony
  
 
dgdg
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


thrice wrote:
Unpack, decrypt, modify version to higher number than your current fw, encrypt, pack, patch.


Thanks.
I've got some decent technical skills, but do you have a link with some basic instructions/tips I could follow?
May 19, 2017 at 11:45 AM
aikaarska
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


[ instructions from akmtshun]


EDIT DELETE

Ingenious editing

Edited on May 20, 2017 at 01:46 AM · View previous versions
May 19, 2017 at 12:03 PM
thrice
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


I love how akmtshun pm’d me, got full instructions and is now claiming he figured it out too...

At least Sony are now fully aware of the method we used if they want to plug the loophole in future because you geniuses posted it on a public forum.
May 19, 2017 at 05:26 PM
aikaarska
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


thrice wrote:
I love how akmtshun pm’d me, got full instructions and is now claiming he figured it out too....

So, these instructions were originally from you? Thanks for your work.

thrice wrote:
At least Sony are now fully aware of the method we used if they want to plug the loophole in future because you geniuses posted it on a public forum.

So....do you think that Sony is finally "listening" to us? Or even stalking? ;-)

Some peace, people. Perhaps we should not argue with each other just because Sony is making stupid mistakes ..
May 20, 2017 at 01:18 AM
MJKoski
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Sony is lost with its current FW updater. First, the files are like totally bloated. Pentax did it very right - I can update/downgrade any FW which is located correctly on memory card. Installing FW update for a Sony is like installing operating system update for Android phone or Windows - as almost as long and process is slow and prone to errors.

I doubt the downgrade is as simple as changing a number in a config file. God knows what kind of internal inspections are made when all packages are installed.
May 20, 2017 at 05:16 AM
thrice
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Ooops by bad, it wasn't akmtshun who pm'd me, but someone with very similar username.

Sorry akmtshun! Guess we came to the same result independently.

Sony is probably listening to the bad press on large sites like Petapixel, Cloudynights and Lonelyspeck.

I know from a source within Sony who is 100% reliable that they ARE officially planning to fix it. My source does not know the timeframe, but was hopeful.

aikaarska wrote:
.

So, these instructions were originally from you? Thanks for your work.

So....do you think that Sony is finally "listening" to us? Or even stalking? ;-)

Some peace, people. Perhaps we should not argue with each other just because Sony is making stupid mistakes ..
May 20, 2017 at 05:29 AM
thrice
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


It is Android. 4.4 to be precise. You can even load an android environment into the SDK which emulates the camera and allows debugging of your own apps to push through to the camera! It's a very minimal constrained environment unfortunately as it was community developed.

You are right that the downgrade might be more complex... but it appears to write the full firmware without errors. If you've read Sony's code you would see that they are very neatly written with a lot of error handling.

The size of their updates is probably due to the kitchen sink approach.

http://www.sonyuserforum.de/forum/showthread.php?t=179037 Have a read here, if your German is good (or translate it).

Specifically this post, done with an A7RII on firmware 3.20: http://www.sonyuserforum.de/forum/showpost.php?p=1916580&postcount=25

MJKoski wrote:
Sony is lost with its current FW updater. First, the files are like totally bloated. Pentax did it very right - I can update/downgrade any FW which is located correctly on memory card. Installing FW update for a Sony is like installing operating system update for Android phone or Windows - as almost as long and process is slow and prone to errors.

I doubt the downgrade is as simple as changing a number in a config file. God knows what kind of internal inspections are made when all packages are installed.
May 20, 2017 at 05:35 AM
MJKoski
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Thank you. This could be interesting reading for rainy days. If it does write the earlier FW fully then the earlier FWs also have the same "optimizations" for star eater should they remain after downgrade.
May 20, 2017 at 05:53 AM
dgdg
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


For the A7r1 in particular, do we know if there is any firmware where the raws don't have the star issue?
May 20, 2017 at 02:00 PM
thrice
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


A7r1 has always had star eater in bulb mode. It doesn't have the 4s problem.
May 20, 2017 at 06:59 PM
dgdg
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


I have been generally pleased with my limited milky way shots on the A7r1. Next time I'm fortunate to get out this summer I'll have to compare with my Canon and 30 secs on the A7R1. I like to use my tracker. 4 minutes is a typical exposure.
May 20, 2017 at 09:51 PM
Matt Grum
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony




I have confirmation from reading a German sony forum with plenty of samples that this issue ocurred as far back as fw 3.00! Specifically spatial filtering at 4.0s

Skies were clear(ish) last night so I had a chance to test out my A7RII which is still on FW2.0:

http://www.mattgrum.com/fm/A7RII_fw2.0_star_eater.gif

Unfortunately you can clearly see the spatial filtering kicking in at 4.0s (look in the top left corner - several small stars get eaten).

So if you want to go down the downgrade route you will have to go pre 2.0 and also lose uncompressed RAW.

If I recall correctly, shortly after the A7RII was released there were reports that noise in long exposures was significantly higher than the A7R. Sony responded with a rather heavy handed update which included the spatial filtering, with the major error being the inability to disable this filtering.



Edited on May 21, 2017 at 09:59 AM · View previous versions
May 21, 2017 at 05:47 AM
MJKoski
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Exactly Matt. I wrote earlier that shortly after release of R2 there was an update which wrecked liveview performance by messing up fine grained noise in dim light. This was it.

Screen refresh also started to feel a bit laggy.

It is easy to see why it would also drop clarity in a picture with lots of sand :]
May 21, 2017 at 07:52 AM
aikaarska
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony




Skies were clear(ish) last night so I had a chance to test out my A7RII which is still on FW2.0:If I recall correctly, shortly after the A7RII was released there were reports that noise in long exposures was significantly higher than the A7R. Sony responded with a rather heavy handed update which included the spatial filtering, with the major error being the inability to disable this filtering.



Thank you Matt for this...Okey, indeed now it seems that all we need is proper new firmware update from Sony. I don't want to lose uncompressed RAW, so downgrading below v. 2.00 is ruled out!
May 21, 2017 at 11:42 AM
thrice
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Wow, so it has been an issue since v2.00!

The only instance I have seen of it definitely not occurring is Jim Kasson’s v1.10 tests.
May 21, 2017 at 05:14 PM
aikaarska
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


thrice wrote:
Wow, so it has been an issue since v2.00!

The only instance I have seen of it definitely not occurring is Jim Kasson’s v1.10 tests.

Yep. That was kind of surprise for me too.

Unless someone can re-programming the A7RII firmware code, I guess there is no other help now than waiting for the new firmware from Sony ...
May 21, 2017 at 05:45 PM
thrice
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


aikaarska wrote:
I guess there is no other help now than waiting for the new firmware from Sony ...



The only other option is to sell off ones Sony gear.

I trust that there will be a solution, however they gave uncompressed RAW with the spatial filtering as a silent stowaway. I wonder what kind of surprise the next firmware will have hidden within it.
May 23, 2017 at 11:58 PM
MJKoski
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Yes. And if $5000 A9 "pro" body contains such mines just how seriously are they in this game? Are these optimizations in place to get smoother output in a review or what?
May 24, 2017 at 02:37 AM
thrice
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


I reckon they're 100% for sites like DXO and dpreview to compare and be like "OMG THE NOISE IS SO LOW!"
Now that a lot of those sites will be wise to this trickery they will probably roll it back as a new 'feature'. Then they'll try something else sneaky.

I had to laugh at the slide from their investor meeting that said their growth is due to engaging with their consumers HA!
It's because they have good sensors, a flexible mount and some good glass.
They ignore their consumers until it becomes clear that their complaints will affect Sony's bottom line.
May 24, 2017 at 09:36 PM
snapsy
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


thrice wrote:
I reckon they're 100% for sites like DXO and dpreview to compare and be like "OMG THE NOISE IS SO LOW!"
Now that a lot of those sites will be wise to this trickery they will probably roll it back as a new 'feature'. Then they'll try something else sneaky.

I had to laugh at the slide from their investor meeting that said their growth is due to engaging with their consumers HA!
It's because they have good sensors, a flexible mount and some good glass.
They ignore their consumers until it becomes clear that their complaints will affect Sony's bottom line.

The noise targeted by this specific type of algorithm generally wont show up on quantitative noise measurements - the type of noise it targets contributes only a a tiny fraction of overall noise to the image. So it wont affect the type of measurements that DXO and dpreview perform.
May 24, 2017 at 10:50 PM
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