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Archive 2017 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony

  
 
navmannz
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Gary Clennan wrote:
Thanks to you both! I will need to do some more testing I guess - maybe I have misunderstood the negative effects of the drop to 12bit. I thought I saw some degradation on high contrast margins and also the DR in my landscape images with 12bit. To be clear, you are saying I should only see this if working at base ISO? Thanks so much for the education - I appreciate it.


+1 - particularly if it means that using electronic shutter to save wear when doing multiple star exposures for stacking at an ISO of say 6400 carries no penalty compared to use of just the electronic first curtain.

-John



May 11, 2017 at 03:08 PM
thrice
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


I got sick of waiting for any kind of formal comment from Sony. Knowing how slowly they react to criticism I took matters into my own hands and successfully downgraded my firmware.

A relatively simple process but it can be a little daunting with no guides or documented success of a downgrade. I have the A7RII firmware 3.20 modified to successfully apply over the top of 3.30, but I dont have the previous A7SII firmware to modify. If anyone can help me out I will create that as well.

Since I'd prefer to keep it out of the hands of Sony who might engineer a ‘fix’ for this workaround, shoot me a pm if you're interested and when I'm home on Sunday I'll link you to the firmware.



May 12, 2017 at 07:24 PM
MJKoski
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Indeed, it took them two years to supply a fix for "RAW" files. And, even then, the bodies originally affected were not fixed. A7r1 would still be nice option with uncompressed RAW - very nice long exposure model.


May 13, 2017 at 03:51 AM
nampramos
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Is this star eater thing affecting any Mark I body, regardless of the FW version on those bodies?


May 13, 2017 at 04:56 AM
thrice
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Sorry everyone, despite rolling back the firmware I can confirm spatial filtering still occurs at 4.0s.
Probably a microcode block that the 3.20 firmware didn't write whereas the 3.30 firmware does.

Back to waiting for Sony.



May 14, 2017 at 02:28 AM
nampramos
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Could anyone confirm from which FW did this become a problem?

I have an A7s Mark I running FW 1.10 and not sure if I should update. What am I missing in terms of added functions or other benefits?



May 14, 2017 at 06:43 AM
akmtshun
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


May be there's a need to rollback the firmware to v3.1 and see if it solves the problem...


May 17, 2017 at 03:56 AM
thrice
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


I considered that, however since Sony didn't ever design the firmware updates to go in reverse I'm hesitant to go too far back.

I think 3.20 introduced uncompressed RAW, which I wouldn't want to give up.

There are a massive number of options in the configuration files, however they are only partially decrypted and unpredictable.

There are much smarter individuals than I working on solving this problem without help from Sony.

akmtshun wrote:
May be there's a need to rollback the firmware to v3.1 and see if it solves the problem...




May 17, 2017 at 04:41 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


thrice wrote:
There are much smarter individuals than I working on solving this problem without help from Sony.


I think this may actually happen... My feeling is that someone will develop a "Magic Lantern" type of solution to these issues. Sony seems too slow to address anything...



May 17, 2017 at 08:26 AM
navmannz
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Gary Clennan wrote:
I think this may actually happen... My feeling is that someone will develop a "Magic Lantern" type of solution to these issues. Sony seems too slow to address anything...


I've just had this response from Sony in response to my request for an update -

'Unfortunately, we dont have significant update from the investigation we are conducting. We will keep you informed once we have a result and a solution.'

It sounds like its time to contact our Department of Consumer Affairs...

-John



May 17, 2017 at 06:38 PM
thrice
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


navmannz wrote:
It sounds like its time to contact our Department of Consumer Affairs...

-John


John what has been established is that the cameras are no longer performing as advertised and demonstrated by anecdotal evidence. The change in performance was not advertised and users were encouraged to update to the newer firmware.

The only problem is that the Consumer Affairs people will probably only help you get a refund, they will not be able to encourage Sony to fix the problem. I guess if enough people get refunds...



May 17, 2017 at 09:06 PM
navmannz
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


I rang the NZ Dept of Consumer Affairs, and the adviser I spoke to was of the opinion that, on the basis of what I described (no documentation of the impending change, degradation of performance compared to that at the time of purchase, and inability to reverse the firmware 'upgrade'), I would have legal justification to seek a remedy under our Consumer Guarantees Act.

She advised me to consider lodging a claim via our disputes tribunal service, one of whose roles is 'to enforce rights under the CONSUMER GUARANTEES ACT against suppliers of defective goods or inadequate services'. Lodging a claim requires the payment of a small charge, depending on the amount claimed, and cases are heard by a referee in a self-representing process from which legal counsel are excluded.

I've contacted the Sony service rep I had been dealing with to ask him if there has been any progress since I lodged my claim two weeks ago, including provision of raw files shot at 3.2 and 4 seconds, but although he acknowledged that there is an issue, he has so far declined to give an assurance that a solution will be forthcoming.

-John



May 18, 2017 at 01:26 AM
thrice
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


You're certainly taking a calm approach which will be loudly heard John. If no solution (official or otherwise) presents itself I may go down a similar path.


May 18, 2017 at 02:02 AM
akmtshun
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Eventually, I've found a way (which may not be the same as thrice did) to install the firmware v3.1 over v3.3 of my a7rII. The uncompressed RAW option is still there for selection. If you've decided to run the risk of trying it, pls drop me a PM.


May 18, 2017 at 04:11 AM
MJKoski
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


If that is true then maybe uncomp RAW has been there since god knows when. And for some unknown reason some crackpot decided jpg quality is all people need.


May 18, 2017 at 04:25 AM
aikaarska
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


akmtshun wrote:
Eventually, I've found a way (which may not be the same as thrice did) to install the firmware v3.1 over v3.3 of my a7rII. The uncompressed RAW option is still there for selection. If you've decided to run the risk of trying it, pls drop me a PM.


Okey, That's great to hear...But a big question now: how about that 4sec star eater issue with your modified firmware 3.10?




May 18, 2017 at 05:00 AM
akmtshun
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


aikaarska wrote:
Okey, That's great to hear...But a big question now: how about that 4sec star eater issue with your modified firmware 3.10?



No luck to test because the country - Hong Kong where I am living in is severely polluted by light



May 18, 2017 at 05:05 AM
MJKoski
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


Just use a sharp needle to make lots of holes into black paper box and shoot against bright light. With camera inside the box ofc.


May 18, 2017 at 05:09 AM
mcbroomf
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


akmtshun wrote:
No luck to test because the country - Hong Kong where I am living in is severely polluted by light


Try taking shots at night in the city with small street lamps (use a WA lens to keep the lights small). In one of the threads (maybe the Sony website) there was an example at 3 and 4 secs that showed small lights being taken out by the new firmware NR at 4 secs vs 3 secs.

Mike



May 18, 2017 at 07:30 AM
aikaarska
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Star Eater Algorithm and getting in contact with Sony


mcbroomf wrote:
Try taking shots at night in the city with small street lamps (use a WA lens to keep the lights small). In one of the threads (maybe the Sony website) there was an example at 3 and 4 secs that showed small lights being taken out by the new firmware NR at 4 secs vs 3 secs.

Mike


I have now that akmtshun's modified A7RII firmware 3.10 files. ... But I feel insecure that I dare to downgrade the camera with this firmware ;-)

I don't even know how that star eater algorithm works now with akmtshun's modified A7RII...




May 18, 2017 at 12:09 PM
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